2013 Mock Offseason Thread

[Guest]

I'm pretty skeptical that they'd get all 3, simply because the last one to choose would have to be looking at a full rotation when the time came. Money talks though, and if the last guy was McCarthy(who would certainly be guaranteed a spot), who knows.

 

Also, big "yes please" to Chisenhall and Jimenez.

[SABR Gamer]

Also, according to ABTY...

 

Cubs have had discussions with the Indians about Lonnie Chisenhall and Ubaldo Jimenez, possibly in the same deal... just GM Meetings talk, nothing concrete...

 

 

ABTY will be at the winter meetings, so that'll be fun.

 

Chisenhall pleaseeeeeee! Get it done Theo.

 

Could he be this offseason's Rizzo?

Edited November 10, 2012 by New York Cubs Fan

[KingCubsFan]

I'm pretty skeptical that they'd get all 3, simply because the last one to choose would have to be looking at a full rotation when the time came. Money talks though, and if the last guy was McCarthy(who would certainly be guaranteed a spot), who knows.

 

Also, big "yes please" to Chisenhall and Jimenez.

Never been a big fan of Chisenhall, although the bar is pretty low for a passable third baseman these days.

[Sammy Sofa]

Could he be this offseason's Rizzo?

 

Probably not, be it would be a nice pickup.

[Guest]

I'm pretty skeptical that they'd get all 3, simply because the last one to choose would have to be looking at a full rotation when the time came. Money talks though, and if the last guy was McCarthy(who would certainly be guaranteed a spot), who knows.

 

Also, big "yes please" to Chisenhall and Jimenez.

 

Funny you say that...

 

 

Free agent pitcher Carlos Villanueva wants any team signing him to promise that he will be get the chance to start 30 games

[USSoccer]

I'm pretty skeptical that they'd get all 3, simply because the last one to choose would have to be looking at a full rotation when the time came. Money talks though, and if the last guy was McCarthy(who would certainly be guaranteed a spot), who knows.

 

Also, big "yes please" to Chisenhall and Jimenez.

 

After Garza and Szjamadrjiabsudbsa, who do we have left over that's better than those three, though?

 

Also, obligatory 'they're going to deal Garza' comment.

[rawaction]

Can't imagine that trade with Cleveland would take too much. And it would give the Cubs an arm that's still on the right side of 30 and some value to the Cubs or to a contender if he turns it around. Chisenhall is a potential piece for the future, he has a better chance to be a league average 3B than I think Vitters does, though he probably won't be much more than that.

[davell]

No one's trading for Garza until he proves he's healthy. I can't see him getting moved until midseason. If we landed all 3 of those guys, Wood could be dealt though. That said, if you've got Garza, McCarthy, and Liriano-all with injury concerns and Villanueva-who's never pitched a full seasons worth of innings in the majors......You're likely going to want to have some decent depth behind that.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm not sure I'd put take the over on 64 starts from Liriano, McCarthy and Villanueva in a single season.

[rawaction]

No one's trading for Garza until he proves he's healthy. I can't see him getting moved until midseason. If we landed all 3 of those guys, Wood could be dealt though. That said, if you've got Garza, McCarthy, and Liriano-all with injury concerns and Villanueva-who's never pitched a full seasons worth of innings in the majors......You're likely going to want to have some decent depth behind that.

If the Cubs are signing 3 somewhat high priced FA starters, they better be contenders. No reason to spend that much money NOT winning and not building for the future.

[mookie]

Why would we want Ubaldo? Is it just to get Chisenhall who is pretty much whatever anyway? I am confused on any excitement over this one.

[Guest]

I'm pretty skeptical that they'd get all 3, simply because the last one to choose would have to be looking at a full rotation when the time came. Money talks though, and if the last guy was McCarthy(who would certainly be guaranteed a spot), who knows.

 

Also, big "yes please" to Chisenhall and Jimenez.

 

After Garza and Szjamadrjiabsudbsa, who do we have left over that's better than those three, though?

 

Also, obligatory 'they're going to deal Garza' comment.

 

I'm not saying that they aren't better than Wood, but rather that when you have your choice of where to go, you don't necessarily want to be the 6th guy added to the rotation. Especially guys with pasts of Lirano, McCarthy, and Villanueva. Wouldn't be too difficult for an agent/other team to talk them into believing "you're just a backup plan in Chicago, we'll make sure you get your starts", right or not.

[Guest]

Why would we want Ubaldo? Is it just to get Chisenhall who is pretty much whatever anyway? I am confused on any excitement over this one.

 

To me, Ubaldo is a decent addition in the vein of Maholm, and his contract and crummy 2012 might mean that he lowers the price for Chisenhall. Chisenhall is a former top prospect who's already shown an ability to hit a bit at the MLB level. You don't have to squint very hard to see him as an above average 3B with the potential for more as he reaches his prime, plus he's under team control for 4-5 years.

[davell]

No one's trading for Garza until he proves he's healthy. I can't see him getting moved until midseason. If we landed all 3 of those guys, Wood could be dealt though. That said, if you've got Garza, McCarthy, and Liriano-all with injury concerns and Villanueva-who's never pitched a full seasons worth of innings in the majors......You're likely going to want to have some decent depth behind that.

If the Cubs are signing 3 somewhat high priced FA starters, they better be contenders. No reason to spend that much money NOT winning and not building for the future.

As opposed to what though? If things clicked, that group of 3 could help turn the rotation into something formidable and if the offense improved a bit, who knows? Maybe we're in the Wild Card hunt at the ASB. But, it's likely those things won't happen, and we're selling off. I guess Villanueva gets a 2-3 year deal. McCarthy and Liriano? One and an option? If we want short term guys, may as well get the best we can get, right? If one pitches his ass off, maybe we get a nice haul in return. But with as low as the payroll is, those 3 could be added and we'd still likely have 10-15 mill to use just to make it to a 100 mill and that(hopefully) isn't an issue, even if we ARE rebuilding.

[rawaction]

No one's trading for Garza until he proves he's healthy. I can't see him getting moved until midseason. If we landed all 3 of those guys, Wood could be dealt though. That said, if you've got Garza, McCarthy, and Liriano-all with injury concerns and Villanueva-who's never pitched a full seasons worth of innings in the majors......You're likely going to want to have some decent depth behind that.

If the Cubs are signing 3 somewhat high priced FA starters, they better be contenders. No reason to spend that much money NOT winning and not building for the future.

As opposed to what though? If things clicked, that group of 3 could help turn the rotation into something formidable and if the offense improved a bit, who knows? Maybe we're in the Wild Card hunt at the ASB. But, it's likely those things won't happen, and we're selling off. I guess Villanueva gets a 2-3 year deal. McCarthy and Liriano? One and an option? If we want short term guys, may as well get the best we can get, right? If one pitches his ass off, maybe we get a nice haul in return. But with as low as the payroll is, those 3 could be added and we'd still likely have 10-15 mill to use just to make it to a 100 mill and that(hopefully) isn't an issue, even if we ARE rebuilding.

Frankly I think this approach would set the Cubs back a year. This isn't the Pirates who are desperate to compete and don't have long term resources to do so. You can't preach building for the future and spend on 3 pitchers who won't be around when u realistically can win. Gotta have retreads to field a team, but for every DeJesus there needs to be a Rizzo. I like Liriano but he is not going to help lead this team to the playoffs ever. The Cubs need to add future pieces while still being respectable as a franchise.

[SouthSideRyan]

You can't just conjure up an Anthony Rizzo.

[davell]

To me, if you could add 2-3 of that group of pitching and make a trade for a Chisenhall or Bourjos, along with a trade for a Casey Kelly, Delgado type SP, it's a really good offseason for what we're trying to do. You've added a couple of young pieces for your "core" and depending on any additional offensive moves, its possible you contend if things fell right.

[Guest]

Have there been any teams reported to be interested in BJ Upton yet?

[davell]

Have there been any teams reported to be interested in BJ Upton yet?

Philly, Atlanta, Yankees, Nats, Reds(I think)

[Backtobanks]

No one's trading for Garza until he proves he's healthy. I can't see him getting moved until midseason. If we landed all 3 of those guys, Wood could be dealt though. That said, if you've got Garza, McCarthy, and Liriano-all with injury concerns and Villanueva-who's never pitched a full seasons worth of innings in the majors......You're likely going to want to have some decent depth behind that.

If the Cubs are signing 3 somewhat high priced FA starters, they better be contenders. No reason to spend that much money NOT winning and not building for the future.

As opposed to what though? If things clicked, that group of 3 could help turn the rotation into something formidable and if the offense improved a bit, who knows? Maybe we're in the Wild Card hunt at the ASB. But, it's likely those things won't happen, and we're selling off. I guess Villanueva gets a 2-3 year deal. McCarthy and Liriano? One and an option? If we want short term guys, may as well get the best we can get, right? If one pitches his ass off, maybe we get a nice haul in return. But with as low as the payroll is, those 3 could be added and we'd still likely have 10-15 mill to use just to make it to a 100 mill and that(hopefully) isn't an issue, even if we ARE rebuilding.

Frankly I think this approach would set the Cubs back a year. This isn't the Pirates who are desperate to compete and don't have long term resources to do so. You can't preach building for the future and spend on 3 pitchers who won't be around when u realistically can win. Gotta have retreads to field a team, but for every DeJesus there needs to be a Rizzo. I like Liriano but he is not going to help lead this team to the playoffs ever. The Cubs need to add future pieces while still being respectable as a franchise.

 

That's what I posted in another topic. Some of Oakland's young pitching, Hellickson, Bauer, Delgado, Masterson, etc. are said to be available. Add one of these young guys and 1-2 of the FAs (Marcum/McCarthy/Liriano/Villenueva/etc.) and you have a decent rotation with depth for next year and you have Shark, Viscaino, young pitcher from trade, Wood and whoever is left over after the trade deadline (Garza/Marcum/McCarthy/Liriano/Villenueva) for 2014.

[davell]

I want to add the young pitching as much as anyone and think we'll find a way to add a guy somehow. But, the problem is this: Each of Tampa, Oakland, and Atlanta are contenders. It seems likely to me anyway, that if they DO part with young pitching, they'll want major league pieces that help them in return. Same with Arizona, if they actually deal Bauer.

[SouthSideRyan]

I want to add the young pitching as much as anyone and think we'll find a way to add a guy somehow. But, the problem is this: Each of Tampa, Oakland, and Atlanta are contenders. It seems likely to me anyway, that if they DO part with young pitching, they'll want major league pieces that help them in return. Same with Arizona, if they actually deal Bauer.

 

This sums up why I think it's a bad idea to depend on trading for young studs when it's time to start trying. With 1/3 of the teams making the playoffs every year and every team being flush with cash thanks to MLBAM and absurd TV contracts, there just aren't going to be many teams starting the year not looking to contend or not being able to afford their young talent.

[davell]

Well [expletive]. Thats a good point and I dug myself a [expletive] hole to crawl out of. That said, while its certainly unclear as to who may be rebuilding at that time, having prospects much closer to the majors would help the cause, as would having enough in your system to overwhelm a team into trading that guy for less than MLB talent. My honest guess(obviously hard to project out) is Tampa could look into trading Price and Longoria within 2 years, Miami and Stanton, KC and some of their younger hitting, and Oakland, if the young arms don't pan out.

[huff]

If you did sign those guys and acquired Ubaldo then do you look to deal Samardzija? I know its not a popular thought here but he could fetch a tremendous haul because of the control years left...granted its about to start getting expensive but he is still a bargain.

 

Sign McCarthy+Villanueva+Liriano

Trade for Jimenez+Chisenhall

Samardzija+Chisenhall to KC for Moustakas+Odorizzi++??? something of that nature...Just tough to find value for Samardzija

[rawaction]

You can't just conjure up an Anthony Rizzo.

 

The point I was making is the same point you make. The Cubs aren't going to be able to call up Baez, Soler, Almora, a couple starters; sign a couple of big time FAs; and trade the rest of their minor league talent to magically make a contending team in 2015. Signing 3 FA pitchers to 1-3 year deals isn't going to help matters in 2015 very much. They aren't going to get a Vizcaino or Villanueva for all of them plus getting a huge package for Garza at the deadline.

 

You can't just conjure up a Rizzo, but there are plenty of teams that have tons of young pitching and may be willing to deal from that to either get salary relief or bats in return (the Cubs minor league strength). Last year the Cubs were able to add Rizzo and the 2 aforementioned players as potential key parts of the future. Maybe even add Wood in there. They also took a couple wildcards like DeJesus, Stewart, and Maholm. My point was that Villanueva, McCarthy and Liriano may make this team look decent on paper, but it also likely means they didn't add any key parts of the future for the rotation.

 

If 2015 is the target year, the Cubs need to keep adding pieces to the MAJOR LEAGUE level to get there rather than waiting to do something of substance until then. Tons of turnover isn't going to work. Calling up tons of prospects, even if they are blue chippers isn't going to work.