Chicago Bulls Offseason

[Sammy Sofa]

Man, I really need to be grading papers.

[CubColtPacer]

They refuse to completely rebuild because they haven't needed to completely rebuild. This is obviously circular, but "basketball hell" isn't the thing you think it is.

 

The Bulls are in a good position in that they've constructed a well-rounded, competitive team that's one of the best in the NBA. There's a primo FA period coming up. Mirotic will probably be here in a couple years. Talking like they should or need to "rebuild" is an unrealistic expectation.

 

When you talk about this free agency period, are you talking about the one next year or the one two years from now? If next year, I don't see how they will have a difference making amount of space even with amnestying Boozer (and if the reports that Hinrich has a 2 year deal are true, that will further cut into their space). They'll have some space, but not max contract type space. They could clear some space by renouncing Gibson, but will they want to let Asik and Gibson go two years in a row?

 

Two years from now they could have a large amount of space if they either don't keep Gibson after next year or renounce Deng. But if they choose to keep both of them, they'll probably have no space at all even with Boozer being amnestied.

[cubbyvirus00]

I don't understand what your point is. They can sell the place out without putting much money or even effort into a competitive team, yet they do. They haven't needed major shakeups and changes because they've done a good job of putting out a competitive team the last few years, not because of some made-up concern about losing ticket sales.

 

My point is that back in 2002 when they were 6th in the Central division, 2003 when they finished 8th in the Central division, 2004/2005 they were first round exits, They made it to the second round of the playoffs in 2006, but DNQ in 2007.

 

Then it was known that they lacked an inside presence but they sign Ben Wallace who everyone knew couldn't score and was undersized on the decline. My point is that this team in fact DID need a major shakeup and rebuilding phase because this team had been toiling for years in mediocrity without much in terms of trades and quality FA additions.

[Sammy Sofa]

Two years. I'm just assuming at least one of Gibson or Deng will be gone.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't understand what your point is. They can sell the place out without putting much money or even effort into a competitive team, yet they do. They haven't needed major shakeups and changes because they've done a good job of putting out a competitive team the last few years, not because of some made-up concern about losing ticket sales.

 

My point is that back in 2002 when they were 6th in the Central division, 2003 when they finished 8th in the Central division, 2004/2005 they were first round exits, They made it to the second round of the playoffs in 2006, but DNQ in 2007.

 

Then it was known that they lacked an inside presence but they sign Ben Wallace who everyone knew couldn't score and was undersized on the decline. My point is that this team in fact DID need a major shakeup and rebuilding phase because this team had been toiling for years in mediocrity without much in terms of trades and quality FA additions.

 

No, stop, backtrack; you still haven't explained how you know they're worried about losing ticket sales due to rebuilding. Their ticket sales were great all of the years you listed, so why would they suddenly go south if they decided to "rebuild?" They were selling out when they sucked.

[cubbyvirus00]

I don't understand what your point is. They can sell the place out without putting much money or even effort into a competitive team, yet they do. They haven't needed major shakeups and changes because they've done a good job of putting out a competitive team the last few years, not because of some made-up concern about losing ticket sales.

 

My point is that back in 2002 when they were 6th in the Central division, 2003 when they finished 8th in the Central division, 2004/2005 they were first round exits, They made it to the second round of the playoffs in 2006, but DNQ in 2007.

 

Then it was known that they lacked an inside presence but they sign Ben Wallace who everyone knew couldn't score and was undersized on the decline. My point is that this team in fact DID need a major shakeup and rebuilding phase because this team had been toiling for years in mediocrity without much in terms of trades and quality FA additions.

 

No, stop, backtrack; you still haven't explained how you know they're worried about losing ticket sales due to rebuilding. Their ticket sales were great all of the years you listed, so why would they suddenly go south if they decided to "rebuild?" They were selling out when they sucked.

 

I never thought nor said that they were 'worried about ticket sales.' My thought is that they WERE being overly conservative because they don't want to rock the boat and to disrupt their business from profiting. Fans have been selling out the stadium with some medicore middle of the pack teams. Now with the arrival of Rose, perhaps the pressure will finally rise.

 

I'm going over the history of this franchise in the last 10 years and none of it really inspires confidence that they will do what is needed to field a powerhouse title contender to rival OKC or the Heat.

Edited July 10, 2012 by cubbyvirus00

[cubbyvirus00]

Two years. I'm just assuming at least one of Gibson or Deng will be gone.

 

Package them together and get nice value in return. It makes 100% sense.

[gflore34]

What is Paxson doing? He has a golden opportunity to bottom out, built in legitimate excuses, and qualify for the lottery to have a chance at adding another star for Rose. Instead he's attempting to build a mediocre, fringe playoff team, how is that going to get them closer to the NBA Championship?

[cubbyvirus00]

What is Paxson doing? He has a golden opportunity to bottom out, built in legitimate excuses, and qualify for the lottery to have a chance at adding another star for Rose. Instead he's attempting to build a mediocre, fringe playoff team, how is that going to get them closer to the NBA Championship?

 

Forman already pretty much admitted this team is done for in the short term. You start to clear cap space now and prepare for 2014 NOW that is if you truly want to build a title contender for 2014 and beyond.

 

Not planning make the 5th (optimistic) seed in the East and get blown out in the playoffs. You either play all in, or all out. This middle ground stuff is maddening.

[17 Seconds]

this is real life, they aren't going to tank for the lottery when they have a shot at home court in the first round.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't understand what your point is. They can sell the place out without putting much money or even effort into a competitive team, yet they do. They haven't needed major shakeups and changes because they've done a good job of putting out a competitive team the last few years, not because of some made-up concern about losing ticket sales.

 

My point is that back in 2002 when they were 6th in the Central division, 2003 when they finished 8th in the Central division, 2004/2005 they were first round exits, They made it to the second round of the playoffs in 2006, but DNQ in 2007.

 

Then it was known that they lacked an inside presence but they sign Ben Wallace who everyone knew couldn't score and was undersized on the decline. My point is that this team in fact DID need a major shakeup and rebuilding phase because this team had been toiling for years in mediocrity without much in terms of trades and quality FA additions.

 

No, stop, backtrack; you still haven't explained how you know they're worried about losing ticket sales due to rebuilding. Their ticket sales were great all of the years you listed, so why would they suddenly go south if they decided to "rebuild?" They were selling out when they sucked.

 

I never thought nor said that they were 'worried about ticket sales.' My thought is that they WERE being overly conservative because they don't want to rock the boat and to disrupt their business from profiting. Fans have been selling out the stadium with some medicore middle of the pack teams. Now with the arrival of Rose, perhaps the pressure will finally rise.

 

I'm going over the history of this franchise in the last 10 years and none of it really inspires confidence that they will do what is needed to field a powerhouse title contender to rival OKC or the Heat.

 

Well, a team like the Heat didn't exist before, so looking for examples in the past of how they should or shouldn't approach such a team is faulty. Secondly, you don't have to be a "powerhouse;" trying be a "powerhouse" all but guarantees a very short shelf-life for your team with the way the finances are currently constructed in the NBA.

 

Hell, I don't even know what you think a "powerhouse" is. Is OKC a powerhouse? Gonna have to disagree with that. Are the Heat a powerhouse? If so, how can you possibly expect them to model that type of team construction?

[Sammy Sofa]

this is real life, they aren't going to tank for the lottery when they have a shot at home court in the first round.

 

No kidding; this idea of bottoming out is beyond ridiculous and acts like Rose is crippled and everyone else on the team is useless.

[Sammy Sofa]

Two years. I'm just assuming at least one of Gibson or Deng will be gone.

 

Package them together and get nice value in return. It makes 100% sense.

 

Depends on what's available; the odds of a player being available who is worth packaging both of them together sooner rather than later that the Bulls will have long term are very, very slim.

[WrigleyField 22]

Paxon's biggest mistake was not making the trade up to grab Wade in '03. I believe the cost for that was Donyell Marshall.

 

Regarding blowing things up, the Bulls were one of the first teams to prepare for Summer 2010. They were shedding contracts way back to the Noce/ Salmons/Miller trade. Yea they missed out on their target, but you can accuse them of toiling. They always had a very soecific goal in mind that gave them the best chance to get a star. It failed, but they planned terifically.

 

They've made plenty of moves that made them worse (or at least where the consensus was so) in the hope of either shedding salaries for future use or getting picks (Crawford, Curry, Hinrich)

 

Lastly, stating they lucked into Rose ignores that at best fans, media, and other teams were split 50/50 on Rose/Beasley. And I'd say Beasley was slightly favored because of the old myth that you always go big. And the Bulls had a 16/6 and 20 pt scorer at the guard spots and had lacked a big man who could score since Curry. It wasn't a consensus #1 draft.

 

 

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Edited July 10, 2012 by WrigleyField 22

[Sammy Sofa]

Paxon's biggest mistake was not making the trade up to grab Wade in '03. I believe the cost for that was Donyell Marshall.

 

Regarding blowing things up, the Bulls were one of the first teams to prepare for Summer 2010. They were shedding contracts way back to the Noce/ Salmons/Miller trade. And they overpaid Ben Wallace so they could get him at 4 years instead of 5. Yea they missed out on their target, but you can accuse them of toiling. They always had a very soecific goal in mind that gave them the best chance to get a star. It failed, but they planned terifically.

 

They've made plenty of moves that made them worse (or at least where the consensus was so) in the hope of either shedding salaries for future use or getting picks (Crawford, Curry, Hinrich)

 

Lastly, stating they lucked into Rose ignores that at best fans, media, and other teams were split 50/50 on Rose/Beasley. And I'd say Beasley was slightly favored because of the old myth that you always go big. And the Bulls had a 16/6 and 20 pt scorer at the guard spots and had lacked a big man who could score since Curry. It wasn't a consensus #1 draft.

 

 

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Excellent points.

[17 Seconds]

It wasn't a consensus #1 draft.

 

maybe it wasn't during the ncaa tournament, but by draft time rose was definitely the consensus #1.

[WrigleyField 22]

It wasn't a consensus #1 draft.

 

maybe it wasn't during the ncaa tournament, but by draft time rose was definitely the consensus #1.

No, it wasn't. Depending on where you read maybe you thought otherwise. Chicago media definitely leaned Rose, but not on a national level.

 

 

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[davell]

I'm impatient and think going after Dwight, with Deng and Noah, is something I wanted to see. That said, there's no way to know whether we did or not. Orlando may not like them, for all we know. We're in a weird spot right now. If Rose gets healthy, we're very good, but not the best, unless some unforeseen stuff goes on. At any rate, if the Dwight deal can't happen, we're not in a rush, nor do we need to be. Deng's contract will be up, we can amnesty Boozer and we can keep or trade Noah by the time 2014 comes around. I don't expect a title before then anyway, so I just want to be in good position for then. We could easily go into that offseason with Rose, Mirotic, the Charlotte pick possibly getting used in that draft, and maybe more picks for Noah. I'm more than OK with that type of scenario, the more I've thought about all this.

[Sammy Sofa]

Any trade idea for Howard no idea hinges more on Howard's opinions as opposed to what Orlando actually wants. He just doesn't want to be here.

[ConstableRabbit]

It wasn't a consensus #1 draft.

 

maybe it wasn't during the ncaa tournament, but by draft time rose was definitely the consensus #1.

No it wasn't. I remember on draft night, the front page of ESPN.com had a Bulls logo with a picture of Rose and Beasley in the background.

[Guest]

Anyone have a list of available FAs in 2014?

[davell]

Any trade idea for Howard no idea hinges more on Howard's opinions as opposed to what Orlando actually wants. He just doesn't want to be here.

Yeah, I know. I would be willing to take him, probably gives you a better shot this season, if Rose comes back, then take my chances he stays. Worst case scenario is he leaves and you're probably not much more than a .500ish team for a year, then it's 2014 anyway. And you've got the same situation, minus the option of keeping or trading Noah.

[davell]

Anyone have a list of available FAs in 2014?

Quite a few early terminations, but assuming they want to hit FA, the list includes Wade, Kobe, Lebron, Melo, Gay, Dirk, Granger, Bosh, Amare, Gasol, and Bogut. There's a full list on Hoopsworld, but I can't link right now.

[Sammy Sofa]

Any trade idea for Howard no idea hinges more on Howard's opinions as opposed to what Orlando actually wants. He just doesn't want to be here.

Yeah, I know. I would be willing to take him, probably gives you a better shot this season, if Rose comes back, then take my chances he stays. Worst case scenario is he leaves and you're probably not much more than a .500ish team for a year, then it's 2014 anyway. And you've got the same situation, minus the option of keeping or trading Noah.

 

I don't think there's even a chance; if they did it it would basically be with the idea he's only here a year. If Rose was healthy I'd be all for that.

[davell]

Yeah, it certainly doesn't sound like he'd want to be here. But, things could change once he was here. Honestly, the biggest negative to this scenario is if he left, while you'd be rid of Deng and Noah, you'd have nothing to show for them, unlrss you got Dwight to do a S&T on his exit. And still, it'd be less than what they'd bring, if dealt seaparately most likely. But, it's obviously conjecture, since Orlando may not like Deng and Noah anyway.