Dempster Traded to Texas for 3B Villanueva & RHP Hendricks

[Sammy Sofa]

Not to be a downer, but while Dempster is having a career season vs. Ted Lilly who was having an average season when he was traded, will it be enough to convince other GMs to give us that much more for Dempster than we got for TRL? I'm aware that we have better guys running the show now, but I have a hard time believing that Hendry would have taken a pair of fringy relief prospects and a guy that the Dodgers were pretty much done with if he felt he could have had that much better. Was Wallach in the Dodgers top 10 at the time?

 

Why would you possibly post this.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Not to be a downer, but while Dempster is having a career season vs. Ted Lilly who was having an average season when he was traded, will it be enough to convince other GMs to give us that much more for Dempster than we got for TRL? I'm aware that we have better guys running the show now, but I have a hard time believing that Hendry would have taken a pair of fringy relief prospects and a guy that the Dodgers were pretty much done with if he felt he could have had that much better. Was Wallach in the Dodgers top 10 at the time?

 

Why would you possibly post this.

 

Legit concern? Historically, Lilly was a better pitcher than Dempster, though Dempster's having a monster season. Also, my memory of 2010 is as hazy as I hope for my memory of 2012 will be by this time next year, but I don't recall Lilly having any injury issues in 2010 and Demp's been on the DL twice, which I can't imagine GMs not taking into consideration when trading prospects for a 2-3 month rental no matter how he's looking at the time. Another example is Edwin Jackson, who had a 2.2 WAR when the White Sox traded him on 7/27, and they ended up getting garbage for him, although he was immediately flipped in the Rasmus trade.

[davell]

Wallach and Smit were both top 20 prospects. Dewitt was the "meat" of the deal, for Hendry. Young, former top 100 prospect, that was cheap. That being said, I'd like to point out that supposedly there are a few differences as to how our FO is run now versus back then. Seriously, worrying about the value we get for Dempster because of a Ted Liily deal a few years back under a different regime is a gigantic reach.

[MWV]

Another example is Edwin Jackson, who had a 2.2 WAR when the White Sox traded him on 7/27, and they ended up getting garbage for him.

 

First, Dempster presently boasts a 2.6 bWAR in 35.2 fewer innings pitched. Second (and more importantly), that trade was a $9.5 million salary dump for the White Sox. If the Cubs kick in a considerable portion of Dempster's salary, it is reasonable to expect that they will receive better prospects than Jason Frasor and Zach Stewart.

[Sammy Sofa]

Not to be a downer, but while Dempster is having a career season vs. Ted Lilly who was having an average season when he was traded, will it be enough to convince other GMs to give us that much more for Dempster than we got for TRL? I'm aware that we have better guys running the show now, but I have a hard time believing that Hendry would have taken a pair of fringy relief prospects and a guy that the Dodgers were pretty much done with if he felt he could have had that much better. Was Wallach in the Dodgers top 10 at the time?

 

Why would you possibly post this.

 

Legit concern? Historically, Lilly was a better pitcher than Dempster, though Dempster's having a monster season. Also, my memory of 2010 is as hazy as I hope for my memory of 2012 will be by this time next year, but I don't recall Lilly having any injury issues in 2010 and Demp's been on the DL twice, which I can't imagine GMs not taking into consideration when trading prospects for a 2-3 month rental no matter how he's looking at the time. Another example is Edwin Jackson, who had a 2.2 WAR when the White Sox traded him on 7/27, and they ended up getting garbage for him, although he was immediately flipped in the Rasmus trade.

 

You must have to actually try to make points this torturous.

[El Duderino]

ya know, the indians didn't get a lot in the rick sutcliffe deal. how big a factor will that be? especially if we trade dempster to the indians, there could be sour grapes

[UMFan83]

I clicked on this thread and scrolled down to the last post in this page to see if there was any news. I read only el duderino's post directly above this and my first thought was 'LLF'

[CubInOK]

ya know, the indians didn't get a lot in the rick sutcliffe deal. how big a factor will that be? especially if we trade dempster to the indians, there could be sour grapes

They made up for it in the Bartolo Colon trade.

[SouthSideRyan]

Another example is Edwin Jackson, who had a 2.2 WAR when the White Sox traded him on 7/27, and they ended up getting garbage for him, although he was immediately flipped in the Rasmus trade.

 

In conclusion, Libya is a land of contrast.

[Guest]

Another example is Edwin Jackson, who had a 2.2 WAR when the White Sox traded him on 7/27, and they ended up getting garbage for him, although he was immediately flipped in the Rasmus trade.

 

In conclusion, Libya is a land of contrast.

 

Point of odor. Lisa stinks.

[Little Slide Rooter]

So is this just a way of saying that there's no way of us not getting something big for Dempster? Well good, color me satisfied.

[cubfan]

ya know, the indians didn't get a lot in the rick sutcliffe deal. how big a factor will that be? especially if we trade dempster to the indians, there could be sour grapes

 

 

Not that it makes a difference, but didn't the Indians get Joe Carter and Mel Hall?

[waffle]

I wonder about the scenario above also, what if the cubs pay a chunk of Ryan's salary, could they get better prospects? Especially to a small market, cash strapped, fiscally conservative kind of team?

[dfnowak]

ya know, the indians didn't get a lot in the rick sutcliffe deal. how big a factor will that be? especially if we trade dempster to the indians, there could be sour grapes

Actually, the Indians got an outfielder by the name of Joe Carter in that trade

[davell]

I wonder about the scenario above also, what if the cubs pay a chunk of Ryan's salary, could they get better prospects? Especially to a small market, cash strapped, fiscally conservative kind of team?

 

 

Absolutely. Plus, some major market teams need financial help as well, like the Red Sox, trying to avoid the luxury tax.

[UMFan83]

So is this just a way of saying that there's no way of us not getting something big for Dempster? Well good, color me satisfied.

 

There's no way of us not not getting something not big for not the 24 other Cubs not named Dempster.

[davell]

Cards and Indians in on Dempster, per Levine.

[UMFan83]

Cardinals *vomit*

 

Not that it matters because I want the best return no matter what, but I'm not sure if Theo knows how much it would suck to see Dempster in a Cardinals uniform helping them push for a playoff spot.

[Sammy Sofa]

Cardinals *vomit*

 

Not that it matters because I want the best return no matter what, but I'm not sure if Theo knows how much it would suck to see Dempster in a Cardinals uniform helping them push for a playoff spot.

 

Yes, the former GM of the Red Sox has absolutely no clue what it would be like to see a beloved (or whatever Dempster is) player playing for a bitter rival. NO IDEA AT ALL.

[davell]

They've won enough WS to where if they win one with Demp, my night would be ruined, but I'd get over it quickly. Plus, they'd have to overpay as it is, since we wouldn't send him there with other comparable packages sitting there. Hell, maybe we could snag Rosenthal AND Jenkins out of them, which would be a coup.

[davell]

The Cards are one of the teams that gets in the new competitive lottery [expletive] for supplemental picks too, so every other year or so, they can count on adding an extra pick for nothing, making it easier for them to come off guys in trades like this.

[Tryptamine]

Somewhat unrelated, but the more I think about Dempster being excluded from the ASG the more I'm baffled. He leads the NL in ERA and he's second to only Jered Weaver in baseball. Another case of people thinking W's actually mean something?

[UMFan83]

Cardinals *vomit*

 

Not that it matters because I want the best return no matter what, but I'm not sure if Theo knows how much it would suck to see Dempster in a Cardinals uniform helping them push for a playoff spot.

 

Yes, the former GM of the Red Sox has absolutely no clue what it would be like to see a beloved (or whatever Dempster is) player playing for a bitter rival. NO IDEA AT ALL.

 

Once you understand one rivalry you understand them all right? Do you think he knows that Cardinals Cubs is as bitter a rivalry as Yankees Red Sox, which he has been around for his entire life? It's possible, but I'm not sure.

 

Anyways it was a stupid comment because it shouldnt influence his decision making at all if they are offering the best deal.

[UMFan83]

The Cards are one of the teams that gets in the new competitive lottery [expletive] for supplemental picks too, so every other year or so, they can count on adding an extra pick for nothing, making it easier for them to come off guys in trades like this.

 

how does that work exactly? I know there is some sandwich picks given as compensation for losing some caliber of FA's but only if that player has been on the team since the start of the season. How do they determine who is worthy enough? Still the old A/B system?

 

And what is the difference between that and what you are talking about?

[davell]

I have no idea how they'll rank the players getting supplemental picks. That's a great question that I've not even thought about. The competitive balance lottery is for "small market", low revenue teams, that are deemed at a disadvantage. It's been a while since I saw the article(Jonathan Mayo) and couldn't find it just now. But, there will be 6 extra supplemental round picks awarded to those teams. I think it's 12 teams, maybe 14. Somehow, the Cards are part of this, so they'll basically get an extra pick every other year for nothing. The same teams also are involved in a second lottery for more picks as well each year. I think from teams forfeiting picks, for going over draft budget(my guess is this is usually going to be zero). Howev er r, something I'm still not clear on and it's a big deal: I think if a team loses a FA they offer the 12.5 mill to, they get the other teams pick AND a supplemental pick as well. But, it may very well be the team losing the player only gets a supplemental rounder and while the acquiring team(top 10 protected) loses their pick, that pick could conceivably be part of the 2nd lottery, making those teams get that many more picks.