Tigers sign Prince - 9/214 - Heyman

[ctcf]

Kinda surprised to see the Cubs are even in this discussion.

[jersey cubs fan]

Why do they call it an opt out instead of just saying it's a 3 year deal with a player option for 3 more? Is there a difference in practice?

 

Options are generally one year at a time, no? An opt-out as any particular point in the contract is a one time thing. My guess is it matters for accounting reasons, as well as having the agent be able to say he signed a 6/120 for his client instead of a 3/60 with options.

[Guest]

Kinda surprised to see the Cubs are even in this discussion.

 

80% chance it's just Boras tossing our name in

 

but I do think we'd be open to signing him at our price...who knows what that means, though.

[Derwood]

why trade for Rizzo if you're going to sign Fielder?

 

I don't buy it

[jersey cubs fan]

why trade for Rizzo if you're going to sign Fielder?

 

I don't buy it

 

Rizzo is probably starting the year in AAA anyway, he doesn't have to stay up for good until 2014, and if necessary he could start in a corner OF position for a year or two, or get traded for more value after a year in Iowa.

[ctcf]

Also, between Jackson, Madson and Fielder, I feel like Boras is having a nightmarish off-season so far.

[KingCubsFan]

why trade for Rizzo if you're going to sign Fielder?

 

I don't buy it

 

Rizzo is probably starting the year in AAA anyway, he doesn't have to stay up for good until 2014, and if necessary he could start in a corner OF position for a year or two, or get traded for more value after a year in Iowa.

I don't think Hoyer would leave the guy in AAA for 2.5 years. My guess is that they'd trade him. And it would still be a good trade, since he'd have more value than Cashner.

[UMFan83]

Well, the thing is its obvious Theo and Jed love Rizzo. They've acquired him 3 separate times basically. I don't see them making a trade for him only to ship him off in another trade. They could move Rizzo to corner OF or something, but he was a above average glove at 1B, clearly will be better than Fielder. So it doesn't seem like there is much of a point to signing Fielder. You obviously don't move him to the OF.

 

I am pretty sure that this Fielder stuff is BS unless by "Cubs terms" they are talking something like 3 years with a team option.

[jersey cubs fan]

Well, the thing is its obvious Theo and Jed love Rizzo. They've acquired him 3 separate times basically. I don't see them making a trade for him only to ship him off in another trade. They could move Rizzo to corner OF or something, but he was a above average glove at 1B, clearly will be better than Fielder. So it doesn't seem like there is much of a point to signing Fielder. You obviously don't move him to the OF.

 

I am pretty sure that this Fielder stuff is BS unless by "Cubs terms" they are talking something like 3 years with a team option.

 

4 guaranteed years without a no-trade clause at big money could make a lot of sense. They like Rizzo for his longterm potential as a cheap productive 1B, but he's not thought to be elite. If you had Fielder here Rizzo could spend all of 2012 in AAA without winding his clock and developing "the Cubs way", and it could be Fielder who is dealt in 2013/2014 when Rizzo is actually at the age they want him starting his career. Fielder gets his big money and maybe gets to keep 8-10 bad ballpark locations on a no-trade.

[Guest]

Rizzo is an asset, whether we sign Fielder or not.

[shnsajax]

Rizzo is an asset, whether we sign Fielder or not.

 

This and if the terms come down to where we want then it still makes sense. We are in a better position w Rizzo regardless as either our 1st baseman or as trade bait later. With Rizzo on board it makes the Cubans more of a priority for me though.

[Post Count Padder]

Rizzo is gonna be our first baseman. If Fielder wants a one-year deal (which he won't since he turned that down from the Brewers), then maybe there's a chance.

[OleMissCub]

He met with the Rangers today in Dallas fwiw

[TruffleShuffle]

Rizzo is gonna be our first baseman. If Fielder wants a one-year deal (which he won't since he turned that down from the Brewers), then maybe there's a chance.

 

rizzo is far from a sure thing. i like him, but i can easily see him being a bust. i definitely don't view him as a sure thing where you don't consider fielder if his price comes down.

[StarlinOnYou]

He met with the Rangers today in Dallas fwiw

 

If I were the Rangers, I'd let Darvish walk (you effectively blocked him from your competition) and throw money at Fielder.

 

And then trade for Garza.

[questionmarkgrace]

Rizzo is gonna be our first baseman. If Fielder wants a one-year deal (which he won't since he turned that down from the Brewers), then maybe there's a chance.

 

rizzo is far from a sure thing. i like him, but i can easily see him being a bust. i definitely don't view him as a sure thing where you don't consider fielder if his price comes down.

 

 

You hit the nail on the head here. Fielder is a known quantity Rizzo is an unknown. Outside of his huge year in AAA Rizzo's top ops was .859 good but nowhere near the 1.056 he put up last year. The good thing is that he did that as a 22 year old meaning there should be room to grow. The bad thing is that he struggled mightly in the majors away from the notoriously hitter friendly PCL. The thing is we just dont know if last year was an outlier or the beginning of an up slope trend.

 

Personally I'll take the guy who hits 40 homeruns in the majors and has a career .929 ops everytime over a prospect who might approach those numbers. Obviously though money and years will be the issue.

[Post Count Padder]

Rizzo is gonna be our first baseman. If Fielder wants a one-year deal (which he won't since he turned that down from the Brewers), then maybe there's a chance.

 

rizzo is far from a sure thing. i like him, but i can easily see him being a bust. i definitely don't view him as a sure thing where you don't consider fielder if his price comes down.

I just have all the same concerns as everyone with his weight and below-average defense. If he'd take a 2-3 year deal I wouldn't be against it, but I can't see him going for that.

 

One of my friends guessed Fielder goes to the Yankees now since they traded away their DH, but I don't see it happening since they want to be under the luxury tax for a change.

[dew1679666265]

I just have all the same concerns as everyone with his weight and below-average defense. If he'd take a 2-3 year deal I wouldn't be against it, but I can't see him going for that.

 

How about this scenario: The Cubs sign Fielder for, say, 6/120. Rizzo spends 2012 and 2013 tearing up AAA - he has been good but not great during his non-PCL minor league career - and developing "the Cubs Way." We play Prince for his age 28 and 29 seasons and then, after hopefully a couple great offensive seasons, we trade Prince and get terrific value for him, since teams would only be committing 4 years to him. We then bring Rizzo up to start the 2014 season and have a really good prospect haul from the Prince deal. At the same time, adding Prince allows us the possibility of contending in the short term (maybe as soon as 2012 if we get some breaks).

 

An NTC would complicate things, but that may well be part of Theo's terms for signing him - we refuse to give an NTC. Probably not a likely scenario, but it would jive with the "asset collection" Theo and Jed have stated they're in.

[questionmarkgrace]

Rizzo is gonna be our first baseman. If Fielder wants a one-year deal (which he won't since he turned that down from the Brewers), then maybe there's a chance.

 

rizzo is far from a sure thing. i like him, but i can easily see him being a bust. i definitely don't view him as a sure thing where you don't consider fielder if his price comes down.

I just have all the same concerns as everyone with his weight and below-average defense. If he'd take a 2-3 year deal I wouldn't be against it, but I can't see him going for that.

 

One of my friends guessed Fielder goes to the Yankees now since they traded away their DH, but I don't see it happening since they want to be under the luxury tax for a change.

 

I think the weight thing is way overblown. Especially with regards to comparisons with his father when Prince has proven to be a much better hitter than his sr who only OPSed over .900 once in his career as a 25 year old. Prince has done that 3 times already. Even if he does get fatter he shouldnt just fall off the ledge like his dad who was pretty much an all or nothing hitter. Yeah we dont see many 275lb hitters in the league, but even rarer do you see one hit a triple. dude can book it.

[toonsterwu]

I tend to think Fielder is going to end up with the Rangers or Nationals, but I'd be perfectly fine if the Cubs swooped in with a 6 year deal with a one time opt out. Actually, I've been posting for awhile that the opt out may be the best possible move for Boras - it could allow Fielder to get a huge payday within that 3 year span while hitting the market again in his prime, a la the intent of the Furcal deal with the Dodgers when he chose them, which could allow Fielder to get 5-6 years at 30 years old. That's probably Boras' best bet to get a combined 8-10 years for Fielder, but it obviously assumes Fielder stays healthy and continues to perform.

 

If you can get Fielder at an affordable length, I think it's a solid move, as it allows you to potentially shorten the time length to being competitive, as you suddenly have a definite impact bat AND you have Rizzo as a trade chip. Much as Theo, Jed, and Jason like Anthony, I don't know if they'd pass on that situation if Fielder came at the right length in the same way that Theo eventually dealt Anthony for Adrian Gonzalez.

 

All that said, still not expecting it, but I do expect that whoever signs Fielder will end up doing it with a creative deal (just watch me turn out to be wrong) where there's perhaps an out-opt, with maybe some options tagged on the backside as well.

[imb]

I just have all the same concerns as everyone with his weight and below-average defense. If he'd take a 2-3 year deal I wouldn't be against it, but I can't see him going for that.

 

How about this scenario: The Cubs sign Fielder for, say, 6/120. Rizzo spends 2012 and 2013 tearing up AAA - he has been good but not great during his non-PCL minor league career - and developing "the Cubs Way." We play Prince for his age 28 and 29 seasons and then, after hopefully a couple great offensive seasons, we trade Prince and get terrific value for him, since teams would only be committing 4 years to him. We then bring Rizzo up to start the 2014 season and have a really good prospect haul from the Prince deal. At the same time, adding Prince allows us the possibility of contending in the short term (maybe as soon as 2012 if we get some breaks).

 

An NTC would complicate things, but that may well be part of Theo's terms for signing him - we refuse to give an NTC. Probably not a likely scenario, but it would jive with the "asset collection" Theo and Jed have stated they're in.

 

The only way rizzo spends 3 full seasons in AAA is if he sucks.

[Sammy Sofa]

Any chance Rizzo could end up in LF? Or would that just be bad news?

[toonsterwu]

Any chance Rizzo could end up in LF? Or would that just be bad news?

 

I think he could be okay in LF. He's relatively athletic for his size, and the old reports from his prep days suggested an above average arm. Not ideal, and not sure he'd be even average in LF, but probably not horrible. That said, if we do sign Fielder, which I doubt, but if we do, I think there would be plenty of teams that would offer up an intriguing enough package for Rizzo to be their first baseman (Indians/Rays/Orioles come to mind) that it would be better for us to trade him.

[Backtobanks]

To end all of the speculation:

 

From MLBTR:

 

•Signing Fielder is "just not going to happen" for the Cubs, manager Dale Svuem told reporters, including Chris De Luca and Godron Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times (Twitter link).

[sneakypower]

Any chance Rizzo could end up in LF? Or would that just be bad news?

i fail to recall a good transition from a 1B to the OF, moreover seemingly every single time it's ever been tried before the results have ranged from very, very bad to just embarrassingly awful