Tigers sign Prince - 9/214 - Heyman

[SouthSideRyan]

You think Prince Fielder is going to decline that much in 3 years?

[TruffleShuffle]

carlos pena got $10m last offseason. even the people most concerned about fielder's fatness aren't too worried that he'll start declining into .220/.340/.480 territory within 3 years.

[Backtobanks]

You think Prince Fielder is going to decline that much in 3 years?

 

I guess I should have emphasized getting hurt over struggling as a reason for not getting another big payday.

[Little Slide Rooter]

You think Prince Fielder is going to decline that much in 3 years?

 

I guess I should have emphasized getting hurt over struggling as a reason for not getting another big payday.

 

Anyone can get hurt, and that's a big reason why teams tend to be reluctant to give anyone a 7-8 year deal. I could see an NL team, such as the Cubs giving Fielder something between 3-5 years with some kind of option (player, mutual, or vesting) with a full NTC as I'm not worrid about moing him before age 32. This way, he'll be 30-32 by the time that ones up, still not yet having reached the feared Mo Vaughn 34-35 cliff, at which point AL teams would be inclined to give him another 3-4 years as a DH with part time 1st base duties depending on how his defense is by then, and ven after that deals up if his bodies still holding up he can still sign a few 1 year deals with the A's or a farewell tour with the Brewers.

[Conky]

You think Prince Fielder is going to decline that much in 3 years?

 

I guess I should have emphasized getting hurt over struggling as a reason for not getting another big payday.

 

Anyone can get hurt, and that's a big reason why teams tend to be reluctant to give anyone a 7-8 year deal. I could see an NL team, such as the Cubs giving Fielder something between 3-5 years with some kind of option (player, mutual, or vesting) with a full NTC as I'm not worrid about moing him before age 32. This way, he'll be 30-32 by the time that ones up, still not yet having reached the feared Mo Vaughn 34-35 cliff, at which point AL teams would be inclined to give him another 3-4 years as a DH with part time 1st base duties depending on how his defense is by then, and ven after that deals up if his bodies still holding up he can still sign a few 1 year deals with the A's or a farewell tour with the Brewers.

 

This is exactly the situation Boras is trying to avoid.

[Little Slide Rooter]

You think Prince Fielder is going to decline that much in 3 years?

 

I guess I should have emphasized getting hurt over struggling as a reason for not getting another big payday.

 

Anyone can get hurt, and that's a big reason why teams tend to be reluctant to give anyone a 7-8 year deal. I could see an NL team, such as the Cubs giving Fielder something between 3-5 years with some kind of option (player, mutual, or vesting) with a full NTC as I'm not worrid about moing him before age 32. This way, he'll be 30-32 by the time that ones up, still not yet having reached the feared Mo Vaughn 34-35 cliff, at which point AL teams would be inclined to give him another 3-4 years as a DH with part time 1st base duties depending on how his defense is by then, and ven after that deals up if his bodies still holding up he can still sign a few 1 year deals with the A's or a farewell tour with the Brewers.

 

This is exactly the situation Boras is trying to avoid.

 

Obviously, he's trying to avoid it, but if nobody gives him 8 years, nobody gives him 8 years and then the question is would he prefer 3-4 years at a higher dollar amount or 5-6 years at a lower one. Unfortunately for Prince and Boras, of the usual big spenders, The Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, and now The Angels all have their expensive 1st baseman. While Pujols would be worth trying to move some guys around the field, Fielder isn't Pujols. Then there's the Dodgers and Mets who are each in their own financial mess. The Cubs are the last of the last of the big money teams for Boras to come to, and while the fit is perfect, Epstein will not br going 8 years. I could see them eventually settling at 5 with mutual or vesting options for 6&7. Beyong that, there are the Giants who could sure use his bat but havn't expressed any interest. The Nationals have been big spenders lately, but they're paying LaRosche and have Marrero behind him. Are those the kind of guys who you'd let block Prince Fielder? Of course not, but they are the kind of guys who can give you the kind leverage that if they are interested they don't have to go more than 6-7 years. Similar with the Rangers and Moreland and the Mariners with Smoak. If they don't think those guys are ready for full time, they mught prefer a 1-2 years deal for Kotchman or Pena. The best fit is Toronto, who after narrowly missing out on Darvish clearly have the money, and the 8 years deal could make sense to them. If they could sign Fielder and trade for Garza, they could actually find themselves the division favorites instead of a >.500 team wishing they didn't share a time zone with Boston and New York.

[JWCUB]

Levine said today on Talking baseball that the Cubs are very much interested in Prince. Just like many other teams just under the radar. FWIW.

[Conky]

Levine said today on Talking baseball that the Cubs are very much interested in Prince. Just like many other teams just under the radar. FWIW.

 

Not possible. The Henny Penny's have already announced that the roster is set and the team sucks through 2013. Nothing to see here.

[Rob]

Levine said today on Talking baseball that the Cubs are very much interested in Prince. Just like many other teams just under the radar. FWIW.

 

Not possible. The Henny Penny's have already announced that the roster is set and the team sucks through 2013. Nothing to see here.

 

You're one of my favorite new posters.

[Conky]

Levine said today on Talking baseball that the Cubs are very much interested in Prince. Just like many other teams just under the radar. FWIW.

 

Not possible. The Henny Penny's have already announced that the roster is set and the team sucks through 2013. Nothing to see here.

 

You're one of my favorite new posters.

 

Haha! Thanks, Rob.

 

8-[

[Little Slide Rooter]

Levine said today on Talking baseball that the Cubs are very much interested in Prince. Just like many other teams just under the radar. FWIW.

 

Makes sense. Again, even the boogeyman phrases "rebuild" and "overhaul" don't suggest that they can't start the process with a good cornerstone.

[dew1679666265]

Makes sense. Again, even the boogeyman phrases "rebuild" and "overhaul" don't suggest that they can't start the process with a good cornerstone.

 

It depends on the extent of the rebuild, I think. I think the extent depends a lot on whether they trade Garza or not. I'm a bit wary of the potential contracts the FA pitchers are going to get next year (I'm expecting 6 years to be the minimum most of them get) and no matter who we get for Garza, he probably won't be a TOR type of guy by 2013.

 

If we're not going to be set up well to compete in 2013, then I'm not a big fan of signing Prince. If he signs, say, a 6 year deal, you figure there's a good chance he'll be declining heavily the last couple years of the deal and if we're rebuilding for a couple years on the front-end, that leaves just a couple years where he's helping us compete. That's probably not worth a huge contract.

[Theo]

Trying to think the last time a free agent the magnitude of Prince was still unsigned into the new year? Boras and Co must hate the current offers.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Makes sense. Again, even the boogeyman phrases "rebuild" and "overhaul" don't suggest that they can't start the process with a good cornerstone.

 

It depends on the extent of the rebuild, I think. I think the extent depends a lot on whether they trade Garza or not. I'm a bit wary of the potential contracts the FA pitchers are going to get next year (I'm expecting 6 years to be the minimum most of them get) and no matter who we get for Garza, he probably won't be a TOR type of guy by 2013.

 

If we're not going to be set up well to compete in 2013, then I'm not a big fan of signing Prince. If he signs, say, a 6 year deal, you figure there's a good chance he'll be declining heavily the last couple years of the deal and if we're rebuilding for a couple years on the front-end, that leaves just a couple years where he's helping us compete. That's probably not worth a huge contract.

 

If we do move Garza then the post 2012 starting pitching would be wide open. Assuming we could get Cain, there's our ace. If we could get Turner from Detroit he could ultimately be a good number 2, but he's only 20 so that's far from a sure thing. After that perhaps McNutt, Cashner, and Wood could round out the rotation. Again, a lot of ifs there but it could end up very strong.

[Rob]

Trying to think the last time a free agent the magnitude of Prince was still unsigned into the new year? Boras and Co must hate the current offers.

 

Just last year. The Cards signed Holliday on January 8th.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Trying to think the last time a free agent the magnitude of Prince was still unsigned into the new year? Boras and Co must hate the current offers.

 

Just last year. The Cards signed Holliday on January 8th.

 

I think that was 2 years ago. At least in about 2 hours it will have been.

[Conky]

Trying to think the last time a free agent the magnitude of Prince was still unsigned into the new year? Boras and Co must hate the current offers.

 

Problem is no American League teams really need him and he doesn't see himself as a DH. Boras will drag this out indefinitely, or until Prince says enough is enough, show me the money. Cubs are in the driver's seat here. I like having a GM/ Pres that is not over-matched by Boras.

[mookie]

Ken Davidoff of Newsday reports that Prince Fielder wants to play for the Cubs, but they "appear committed to a full rebuild for 2012."

Fielder is intrigued by the possibility of playing in Chicago, Davidoff says, because "they’re a reasonable distance from his Florida home and he has outstanding numbers at Wrigley Field." It doesn't appear that he'll land there, though, as the Cubs appear committed to rebuilding the farm system rather than spending on free agents. Davidoff also lists the Nationals and Blue Jays as potential landing spots for Prince but notes that the Nats "are a little gun-shy" after the Jayson Werth deal and the Jays are unwilling to go beyond five years for the first baseman.

Related: Cubs, Blue Jays, N

[Guest]

Trying to think the last time a free agent the magnitude of Prince was still unsigned into the new year? Boras and Co must hate the current offers.

 

Problem is no American League teams really need him and he doesn't see himself as a DH. Boras will drag this out indefinitely, or until Prince says enough is enough, show me the money. Cubs are in the driver's seat here. I like having a GM/ Pres that is not over-matched by Boras.

Prince already stated he would DH when he first started talking about leaving the Brewers. I like the front office too.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Ken Davidoff of Newsday reports that Prince Fielder wants to play for the Cubs, but they "appear committed to a full rebuild for 2012."

Fielder is intrigued by the possibility of playing in Chicago, Davidoff says, because "they’re a reasonable distance from his Florida home and he has outstanding numbers at Wrigley Field." It doesn't appear that he'll land there, though, as the Cubs appear committed to rebuilding the farm system rather than spending on free agents. Davidoff also lists the Nationals and Blue Jays as potential landing spots for Prince but notes that the Nats "are a little gun-shy" after the Jayson Werth deal and the Jays are unwilling to go beyond five years for the first baseman.

Related: Cubs, Blue Jays, N

 

Sounds like another guy using the term rebuild to mean slash and burn.

[Conky]

Trying to think the last time a free agent the magnitude of Prince was still unsigned into the new year? Boras and Co must hate the current offers.

 

Problem is no American League teams really need him and he doesn't see himself as a DH. Boras will drag this out indefinitely, or until Prince says enough is enough, show me the money. Cubs are in the driver's seat here. I like having a GM/ Pres that is not over-matched by Boras.

Prince already stated he would DH when he first started talking about leaving the Brewers. I like the front office too.

 

Yes, he paid lip service to the DH question at the All-Star game, but only that he was "open to listening" I think was the quote. No way was he going to immediately eliminate half the potential market by saying no to DH. Fast-forward to the money and years he is looking for and he has all but eliminated himself as a DH candidate at this point.

[Yeti]

Ken Davidoff of Newsday reports that Prince Fielder wants to play for the Cubs, but they "appear committed to a full rebuild for 2012."

Fielder is intrigued by the possibility of playing in Chicago, Davidoff says, because "they’re a reasonable distance from his Florida home and he has outstanding numbers at Wrigley Field." It doesn't appear that he'll land there, though, as the Cubs appear committed to rebuilding the farm system rather than spending on free agents. Davidoff also lists the Nationals and Blue Jays as potential landing spots for Prince but notes that the Nats "are a little gun-shy" after the Jayson Werth deal and the Jays are unwilling to go beyond five years for the first baseman.

Related: Cubs, Blue Jays, N

WTF is that bold part supposed to mean?

[Little Slide Rooter]

Ken Davidoff of Newsday reports that Prince Fielder wants to play for the Cubs, but they "appear committed to a full rebuild for 2012."

Fielder is intrigued by the possibility of playing in Chicago, Davidoff says, because "they’re a reasonable distance from his Florida home and he has outstanding numbers at Wrigley Field." It doesn't appear that he'll land there, though, as the Cubs appear committed to rebuilding the farm system rather than spending on free agents. Davidoff also lists the Nationals and Blue Jays as potential landing spots for Prince but notes that the Nats "are a little gun-shy" after the Jayson Werth deal and the Jays are unwilling to go beyond five years for the first baseman.

Related: Cubs, Blue Jays, N

WTF is that bold part supposed to mean?

 

If his only other legit suiters are Toronto and Seattle, then I guess it's a pretty reasonable distance, comparatively speaking.

[UMFan83]

Toronto is not really at all farther from Florida than Chicago.

[toonsterwu]

I still wonder, whichever team that ends up landing him, if the final deal is going to be something that's ... creative. Perhaps an insanely high AAV on a short term deal to get him back on the market in his early 30's? Or perhaps some sort of long term deal that offers Prince an opt out early, but perhaps gives the team an ability to get out of the contract late based on performance. The biggest problem I see is that, from Boras' perspective, a shorter 5-7 year type of deal, makes little sense in that, it'll be hard for Prince to get that 2nd big contract, and thus, Boras is likely to push for as long a deal as possible, but from a team's perspective, that's just too risky. Hence, why I wonder if a short term high AAV might intrigue, or if an opt out for Prince early in a 5-7 year type of deal makes some sense.

 

Gut guess from the beginning has been the Nationals, but only if they clear some salary, and namely, through shedding Adam LaRoche's contract. Lannan's 4-5 million and Gorzelanny 2-3 million are tougher moves now that they thinned out their SP depth and need at least 1 of those guys, if not both. LaRoche's 8 million might be too much for some teams, though, considering the market. They'd probably have to eat some of the deal.

 

* As a side note, as a 1 year stopgap, if they eat some of the LaRoche deal and we give up a meaningless prospect, he'd be a fine option there if they decide against longer deals for FA's. That said, they are more likely to wait out the market and see if someone like Carlos Pena has to sign for 1 year, I think.