Re: What would you deal Garza for?

[gocubs2118]

I think an offseason trade of Garza might be better anyway. Good alternative for teams that lose out on other FA SPs. Also, gives him a chance to have a good 2nd half to boost his value a little. Or frankly, teams will be more willing to take a chance that they get 2011 Garza instead of 2012 Garza and have complete control if they want to sign him long-term or not.

 

We all better hope so because that is all we have right now. Hopefully Garza pitches well in the next few months and rides out 2012 on a strong note. That is the only way a package will match what we should have and now won't receive at this moment.

 

I still don't understand why people are happy that we are losing out on the ability to trade replaceable talent for prospects. I am especially bewildered when you factor in a trade deadline ripe with uncertainty because it is the first deadline since the new CBA.

 

Agreed. I didn't care either way if they traded him or not but now we don't even have the option of trading him, which was always nice. You never know what a desperate team might offer at the 11th hour. Not being able to shop him is a bad thing, not a good thing.

[jersey cubs fan]

Agreed. I didn't care either way if they traded him or not but now we don't even have the option of trading him, which was always nice. You never know what a desperate team might offer at the 11th hour. Not being able to shop him is a bad thing, not a good thing.

 

Not to mention that the reason he can't be shopped is because he's injured and can't physically pitch right now, so that too sucks, in and of itself.

[Sammy Sofa]

Theo is probably slamming the bottle of Jack in desk pretty hard right now. Seems like no moves are going to happen before the deadline with how everything is going.

 

"[expletive], WHY AM I STUCK WITH THIS TALENTED PITCHER?!?! OH, WOE IS ME."

 

You're kidding yourself if you think he's not pissed about this turn of events. They were shopping him around because they wanted to, and now those efforts have been severely hindered.

 

Yeah, but it's not like the alternative is something horrible or unworkable. Basically it's the FO's job to have a continually evolving plan and to deal with these kinds of issues, so I'm not sweating it.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Sammy Sofa

[Banedon]

Agreed. I didn't care either way if they traded him or not but now we don't even have the option of trading him, which was always nice. You never know what a desperate team might offer at the 11th hour. Not being able to shop him is a bad thing, not a good thing.

 

Not to mention that the reason he can't be shopped is because he's injured and can't physically pitch right now, so that too sucks, in and of itself.

 

Those appearances could've been crucial for playoff positioning!

[PrimeTime]

Theo is probably slamming the bottle of Jack in desk pretty hard right now. Seems like no moves are going to happen before the deadline with how everything is going.

 

"[expletive], WHY AM I STUCK WITH THIS TALENTED PITCHER?!?! OH, WOE IS ME."

 

You're kidding yourself if you think he's not pissed about this turn of events. They were shopping him around because they wanted to, and now those efforts have been severely hindered.

 

Exactly. I was mostly implying the whole Dempster ordeal which reported he was " furious" and " livid", but you know they were shopping Garza around looking for a huge haul with the extra year of control he had and now that's taken a huge hit.

[Vinestal]

Theo is probably slamming the bottle of Jack in desk pretty hard right now. Seems like no moves are going to happen before the deadline with how everything is going.

 

"[expletive], WHY AM I STUCK WITH THIS TALENTED PITCHER?!?! OH, WOE IS ME."

Are you really that clueless or just trolling? Who the [expletive] cares how talented is. A. He's not going to be around when this teams competitive. B. This team needs to be building for the future and acquiring as much young talent as it can. It's not rocket science. We need to turn him into multiple talented pitchers that will be around for when we are competitive, that's what I think most of us would prefer.

[Guest]

Not being able to trade Garza this July isn't the big deal a lot of you are making it out to be.

[KingCubsFan]

 

Weren't you the "why are we afraid of good baseball players?" guy this offseason?

 

I don't think he's very high on Garza (and keeping him around at what it will likely cost).

 

Which makes the question even better, since Garza is a good baseball player.

He's not as good as some people on this board make him out to be. And given that the Cubs haven't talked about an extension with him in months, they probably don't think too highly of him either. His trade value will likely decline going forward, so I can't see this being a positive unless the Cubs are able to sign him to a really good extension (which they've apparently shown no interest in doing).

 

I don't think anyone on this board has made him out to be more than he is. People have specifically mentioned NOT giving him a Matt Cain contract because he's not as good as Matt Cain. But he is young enough to be still be good enough to be a key part of the rotation when the Cubs are good enough to compete.

Well, Cain's average salary is 21.25, and people have said the following:

 

I'd also much rather have Garza at 5/90-100 than have to potentially pay Hamels something like 8/184 ($23 AAV).

 

My comfort would depend on the years, but I don't flinch at all at 20 million for Garza.

 

And just for those that don't know, Cain's contract will pay him an annual salary of $20.83 million......I'd think about it. That's just what players like him cost these days. We're entering a period of rapid inflation.

 

Granted, there were mixed opinions on this, so there certainly wasn't a consensus. But I think we're getting to the point where we may have to consider the 5.0 WAR season an outlier, and I'm not sure if I want the Cubs giving him anything more than something similar to Danks.

[Elrhino]

I'm not afraid to admit, I'm pretty disappointed in Theo. One of the biggest responsibilities of a front office of a bad team is to acquire potential talent in exchange for current assets not in the long term plans. As of now, the bottomline is that this front office has botched that pivotal job duty. Is it "bad luck" that Garza suffered an injury before the trade deadline? Maybe, but it also should be an always understood and acknowledged risk and possibility that should be considered and weighed as to the timing of pulling off a trade.

 

I'm not sure how much pin I can blame on Theo for the Dempster fiasco, I just know in the bottomline world of results, the desired result probably isn't going to happen.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Elrhino

[Guest]

One of the biggest responsibilities of a front office of a bad team is to acquire potential talent in exchange for current assets not in the long term plans. As of now, the bottomline is that this front office has botched that pivotal job duty. Is it "bad luck" that Garza suffered an injury before the trade deadline? Maybe, but it also should be an always understood and acknowledged risk and possibility that should be considered and weighed as to the timing of pulling off a trade.

 

This is ridiculous.

[mookie]

Not being able to trade Garza this July isn't the big deal a lot of you are making it out to be.

 

It does reduce his value. That really can't be argued.

[Tyrant]

Theo is probably slamming the bottle of Jack in desk pretty hard right now. Seems like no moves are going to happen before the deadline with how everything is going.

 

"[expletive], WHY AM I STUCK WITH THIS TALENTED PITCHER?!?! OH, WOE IS ME."

Are you really that clueless or just trolling? Who the [expletive] cares how talented is. A. He's not going to be around when this teams competitive. B. This team needs to be building for the future and acquiring as much young talent as it can. It's not rocket science. We need to turn him into multiple talented pitchers that will be around for when we are competitive, that's what I think most of us would prefer.

 

Exactly. Why should the Cubs want Garza to hang around next year when they aren't planning on being competitive?

[jersey cubs fan]

Theo is probably slamming the bottle of Jack in desk pretty hard right now. Seems like no moves are going to happen before the deadline with how everything is going.

 

"[expletive], WHY AM I STUCK WITH THIS TALENTED PITCHER?!?! OH, WOE IS ME."

 

You're kidding yourself if you think he's not pissed about this turn of events. They were shopping him around because they wanted to, and now those efforts have been severely hindered.

 

Exactly. I was mostly implying the whole Dempster ordeal which reported he was " furious" and " livid", but you know they were shopping Garza around looking for a huge haul with the extra year of control he had and now that's taken a huge hit.

 

Not being able to trade Garza is more of an icing on the cake thing when it comes to the frustration. Dempster's move was the big blow.

 

But not being able to trade Garza (rather than choosing not to trade him for what was offered) still has to be disappointing to anybody whose job description basically is to exchange assets for assets in a never ending quest to continually improve your team. Had they traded Dempster for whatshisname and Garza turned out to be injured and untradeable, I'm sure they'd shrug it off. But stop pretending it is not a setback.

[mookie]

I'm not afraid to admit, I'm pretty disappointed in Theo. One of the biggest responsibilities of a front office of a bad team is to acquire potential talent in exchange for current assets not in the long term plans. As of now, the bottomline is that this front office has botched that pivotal job duty. Is it "bad luck" that Garza suffered an injury before the trade deadline? Maybe, but it also should be an always understood and acknowledged risk and possibility that should be considered and weighed as to the timing of pulling off a trade.

 

I'm not sure how much pin I can blame on Theo for the Dempster fiasco, I just know in the bottomline world of results, the desired result probably isn't going to happen.

 

This isn't a blame type situation right now. The only cloudy situation is Dempster.

[Guest]

Not being able to trade Garza this July isn't the big deal a lot of you are making it out to be.

 

It does reduce his value. That really can't be argued.

 

The only way it doesn't is if he pitches amazingly down the stretch, mitigating the lost half year.

 

That's all we can hope for if, as is expected, teams aren't willing to overlook this as a minor injury and deal for him now anyway.

[Sammy Sofa]

Theo is probably slamming the bottle of Jack in desk pretty hard right now. Seems like no moves are going to happen before the deadline with how everything is going.

 

"[expletive], WHY AM I STUCK WITH THIS TALENTED PITCHER?!?! OH, WOE IS ME."

Are you really that clueless or just trolling? Who the [expletive] cares how talented is. A. He's not going to be around when this teams competitive. B. This team needs to be building for the future and acquiring as much young talent as it can. It's not rocket science. We need to turn him into multiple talented pitchers that will be around for when we are competitive, that's what I think most of us would prefer.

 

It's impossible a 28-year-old pitcher will be around when they're next competitive? Don't be ridiculous.

[jersey cubs fan]

Theo is probably slamming the bottle of Jack in desk pretty hard right now. Seems like no moves are going to happen before the deadline with how everything is going.

 

"[expletive], WHY AM I STUCK WITH THIS TALENTED PITCHER?!?! OH, WOE IS ME."

Are you really that clueless or just trolling? Who the [expletive] cares how talented is. A. He's not going to be around when this teams competitive. B. This team needs to be building for the future and acquiring as much young talent as it can. It's not rocket science. We need to turn him into multiple talented pitchers that will be around for when we are competitive, that's what I think most of us would prefer.

 

It's impossible a 28-year-old pitcher will be around when they're next competitive? Don't be ridiculous.

 

Management has given every indication they weren't planning on having him around.

[Sammy Sofa]

Theo is probably slamming the bottle of Jack in desk pretty hard right now. Seems like no moves are going to happen before the deadline with how everything is going.

 

"[expletive], WHY AM I STUCK WITH THIS TALENTED PITCHER?!?! OH, WOE IS ME."

Are you really that clueless or just trolling? Who the [expletive] cares how talented is. A. He's not going to be around when this teams competitive. B. This team needs to be building for the future and acquiring as much young talent as it can. It's not rocket science. We need to turn him into multiple talented pitchers that will be around for when we are competitive, that's what I think most of us would prefer.

 

It's impossible a 28-year-old pitcher will be around when they're next competitive? Don't be ridiculous.

 

Management has given every indication they weren't planning on having him around.

 

So they change their plans if necessary.

[Elrhino]

Theo is probably slamming the bottle of Jack in desk pretty hard right now. Seems like no moves are going to happen before the deadline with how everything is going.

 

"[expletive], WHY AM I STUCK WITH THIS TALENTED PITCHER?!?! OH, WOE IS ME."

 

You're kidding yourself if you think he's not pissed about this turn of events. They were shopping him around because they wanted to, and now those efforts have been severely hindered.

 

Exactly. I was mostly implying the whole Dempster ordeal which reported he was " furious" and " livid", but you know they were shopping Garza around looking for a huge haul with the extra year of control he had and now that's taken a huge hit.

 

Not being able to trade Garza is more of an icing on the cake thing when it comes to the frustration. Dempster's move was the big blow.

 

 

My frustration goes back even to the Zambrano for Chris Volsted trade after we ate almost all of the remaining contract.

 

Thank God for the Rizzo trade.

[Guest]

 

 

My frustration goes back even to the Zambrano for Chris Volsted trade after we ate almost all of the remaining contract.

 

Thank God for the Rizzo trade.

 

How about the Marshall trade? How about the Soler signing? The draft that looks as solid as a draft can look two months after the fact?

[mookie]

Theo sucks guys. It's all his fault. Blah blah blah. I like Rizzo though.

[rawaction]

My reasoning for Garza's value possibly increasing in the offseason is that, right now the market for Garza is ONLY contenders. Granted, the list of contenders is the longest it's been in the history of baseball....but in the offseason, the market is any team that hopes to contend. Garza could be a good acquisition for a team like the Pirates, Royals, DBacks, etc....a team that doesn't have the financial ability or the lure to get a big time FA to come to their cities.

 

I may be wrong, but I don't think there have been a lot of examples of teams paying substantially more at the deadline than they would the next offseason. Could the As and Padres really have gotten more for Gio, Cahill and Latos last July than they did this winter?

[Sammy Sofa]

My reasoning for Garza's value possibly increasing in the offseason is that, right now the market for Garza is ONLY contenders. Granted, the list of contenders is the longest it's been in the history of baseball....but in the offseason, the market is any team that hopes to contend. Garza could be a good acquisition for a team like the Pirates, Royals, DBacks, etc....a team that doesn't have the financial ability or the lure to get a big time FA to come to their cities.

 

I may be wrong, but I don't think there have been a lot of examples of teams paying substantially more at the deadline than they would the next offseason. Could the As and Padres really have gotten more for Gio, Cahill and Latos last July than they did this winter?

 

Yeah, Garza still holds a lot of value in the offseason with the way guys seem to be getting locked up. It's frustrating to see their plans fall through right now, but I'm confident they can handle the rebound if necessary.

[Elrhino]

Theo sucks guys. It's all his fault. Blah blah blah. I like Rizzo though.

 

"He's President of Baseball Operations, but he plays no part in terrible decisions and has no responsibility for poor outcomes that befell the organization he runs. That Zambrano trade did royally suck the big one though."

 

This is a fun game.

[mookie]

Theo sucks guys. It's all his fault. Blah blah blah. I like Rizzo though.

 

"He's President of Baseball Operations, but he plays no part in terrible decisions and has no responsibility for poor outcomes that befell the organization he runs. That Zambrano trade did royally suck the big one though."

 

This is a fun game.

 

What did he do wrong exactly? We have a difference of opinion on Zambrano. He was gone before Theo got here, and I thought that was pretty damn obvious.

 

Was there risk involved in waiting to deal Garza as late as possible this season? Of course, but I don't see how isn't simply part of the game.

 

I am guessing you are blaming Theo for Dempster? I wouldn't and won't do that, but you are free to your own opinions.