Re: What would you deal Garza for?

[davell]

No one, other than the MLBTR guy. Granted, he's harder to trade now, but he's not OFF the market.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Nothing to add here. Just asking the board's opinions. Obviously it depends on what other moves we see, but generally if Garza gets dealt this winter what do you guys believe would be the first year the Cubs would actually contend? You have to have some starting pitching before you start adding to your starting rotation so it becomes a contending rotation. I feel like we're talking about 2015 at the earliest. Am I way off?

 

If we don't make some big trades now, I really don't see how we can without some big free agent signings or trade prospects for big league players I really don't see how we can. The only help that we have coming from our farm in the next year or two is Vitters, Jackson, and Lake, as well as some relievers, none of whom are sure things by any means.

[davell]

2014. Even if Garza is dealt. System will allow for a very solid trade or two, we'll have youngsters contributing that don't cost much and we'll probably sign a FA or two during that offseason. 2015 and on will be dominant.

[mookie]

Nothing to add here. Just asking the board's opinions. Obviously it depends on what other moves we see, but generally if Garza gets dealt this winter what do you guys believe would be the first year the Cubs would actually contend? You have to have some starting pitching before you start adding to your starting rotation so it becomes a contending rotation. I feel like we're talking about 2015 at the earliest. Am I way off?

 

If we don't make some big trades now, I really don't see how we can without some big free agent signings or trade prospects for big league players I really don't see how we can. The only help that we have coming from our farm in the next year or two is Vitters, Jackson, and Lake, as well as some relievers, none of whom are sure things by any means.

 

Actually contend? Next season, meaning 2013. That is with or without Garza. Hopefully it is without. Get on board everyone, this vehicle is beginning to make its ascent.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Nothing to add here. Just asking the board's opinions. Obviously it depends on what other moves we see, but generally if Garza gets dealt this winter what do you guys believe would be the first year the Cubs would actually contend? You have to have some starting pitching before you start adding to your starting rotation so it becomes a contending rotation. I feel like we're talking about 2015 at the earliest. Am I way off?

 

If we don't make some big trades now, I really don't see how we can without some big free agent signings or trade prospects for big league players I really don't see how we can. The only help that we have coming from our farm in the next year or two is Vitters, Jackson, and Lake, as well as some relievers, none of whom are sure things by any means.

 

Actually contend? Next season, meaning 2013. That is with or without Garza. Hopefully it is without. Get on board everyone, this vehicle is beginning to make its ascent.

 

We certainly have to resources to turn this into a contender. The question is whether or not they use them or if they prefer to let the future hinge on a bunch of 18-20 year olds who may develope into stars, everyday players, role players, or career minor leaguers.

[mookie]

It sounds like you have a case of the "I don't know where you are taking this Cubs train Theo" blues.

[Backtobanks]

Nothing to add here. Just asking the board's opinions. Obviously it depends on what other moves we see, but generally if Garza gets dealt this winter what do you guys believe would be the first year the Cubs would actually contend? You have to have some starting pitching before you start adding to your starting rotation so it becomes a contending rotation. I feel like we're talking about 2015 at the earliest. Am I way off?

 

If we don't make some big trades now, I really don't see how we can without some big free agent signings or trade prospects for big league players I really don't see how we can. The only help that we have coming from our farm in the next year or two is Vitters, Jackson, and Lake, as well as some relievers, none of whom are sure things by any means.

 

Actually contend? Next season, meaning 2013. That is with or without Garza. Hopefully it is without. Get on board everyone, this vehicle is beginning to make its ascent.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[davell]

Ofman tweeted word is Garza's off the market now, will try and deal him in offseason. Odd time to take a guy off the market, so my guess is Ofman's taking a stab in being correct we don't move him in the end.

[17 Seconds]

Nothing to add here. Just asking the board's opinions. Obviously it depends on what other moves we see, but generally if Garza gets dealt this winter what do you guys believe would be the first year the Cubs would actually contend? You have to have some starting pitching before you start adding to your starting rotation so it becomes a contending rotation. I feel like we're talking about 2015 at the earliest. Am I way off?

 

If we don't make some big trades now, I really don't see how we can without some big free agent signings or trade prospects for big league players I really don't see how we can. The only help that we have coming from our farm in the next year or two is Vitters, Jackson, and Lake, as well as some relievers, none of whom are sure things by any means.

 

Actually contend? Next season, meaning 2013. That is with or without Garza. Hopefully it is without. Get on board everyone, this vehicle is beginning to make its ascent.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

why do you post on here?

[neely crenshaw]

The only way to contend in 2013 is to spend like a crazy person. Which allegedly Theo could have done this year but wanted to do it correctly. I hope we are better but I would much rather be bad for another year, and have a base to build in order to contend for the next 10 years.

In order to contend for several years, we must have depth in the farms- especially arms. We have to grow some of our own stars to save money, and still have enough chips to be able to get the help where we still need it. It's a process. A long frustrating process, but it does take time. Hopefully if we can re-stock now, and in the offseason with the few chips we currently have. We can speed up the process.

[Little Slide Rooter]

It sounds like you have a case of the "I don't know where you are taking this Cubs train Theo" blues.

 

I'm not sure who this is directed toward, but it could sum up the thoughts of most Cubs fans. Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost faith that by 2014 at the latest, we'll have the type of team that we've been hoping for, but damned if I know how we'll get there from here, especially if we don't make some big trades in the next few days.

[17 Seconds]

The only way to contend in 2013 is to spend like a crazy person.

 

probably what fans of teams like the pirates, a's, and orioles would have said before this season

[davell]

The more I think about it, the Dodgers make the most sense for Garza, if we deal him right now. He'd be their 2, they're set up to absorb him missing a start or 2, with off days and now that Hamels and probably Greinke are both not hitting FA, he's their best bet moving forward as well. Considering Johnson's supposed pricetag and injury history. They had Lilly and Rubby pitch well in rehab stints today, so my honest guess is we probably would get back Harang or Capuano in a deal with them. Which kind of fits, since we need to fill out a rotation in the majors the rest of this year and next as well. But if Lee and Webster came back, with one of the old guys and maybe Tolleson, I bet we'd do it.

[questionmarkgrace]

I actually think it does make sense to take garza off of the trade market right now. For one we can trade him after the season, secondly I think it actually helps us trade dempster now by limiting another potential trade target for a team looking for starting pitching. Shrink the market create more demand. Plus it would be nice to see Garza bounce back from a somewhat bumpy first half and increase his trade value. There is also the possibility that other teams are leery about the muscle fluid problem and are no longer offering what they were a few days/weeks ago.

[Little Slide Rooter]

The only way to contend in 2013 is to spend like a crazy person.

 

probably what fans of teams like the pirates, a's, and orioles would have said before this season

 

The Pirates and Orioles have been packing away young players for years now. As for the A's, color me baffled. They have 2 big bats, and the core of their pitching prospects are still in the minors.

 

Pirates are an interesting team to bring up. For years, they traded away anything of use for top prosects that continued to flop. Now, for the first time since the Killer Bs, they're seemingly relevant, but Bobby Hill, Andy LaRoche, and Craig Hanson damn sure have nothing to do with it. Where am I going with this? When you're a small market team, all you can do is keep packing in prospects and hope that enough of them pan out to open a window in which to contend. If not, you're forced to sell off those that do pan out and repeat process. When you're a big market team, you can also build a farm system, and put together a team that contend in the present. That's why everyone was so excited to have Theo on board. It simply wasn't realistic to expect him to turn the Cubs into the Red Sox overnight. Not without dishing out a whole new wave of bad contracts. Then again, nobody expected him to turn them into the Pirates either. I still don't, but whoever we trade or don't trade in the next 2 days, I'd love to see a very different team take the field in 2013.

[neely crenshaw]

Good point. Pirates have moved toward competitive the last few years. I did not expect the orioles or A's to be even close. Sometimes when you are this close to the situation you tend to look at things a bit harsher.

I also am thinking of a Cubs team next year without Garza, and Dempster. It's hard to see us moving closer without those 2 on the staff. (Of course, a lot depends on who is picked up on any deals)

[mookie]

Nothing to add here. Just asking the board's opinions. Obviously it depends on what other moves we see, but generally if Garza gets dealt this winter what do you guys believe would be the first year the Cubs would actually contend? You have to have some starting pitching before you start adding to your starting rotation so it becomes a contending rotation. I feel like we're talking about 2015 at the earliest. Am I way off?

 

If we don't make some big trades now, I really don't see how we can without some big free agent signings or trade prospects for big league players I really don't see how we can. The only help that we have coming from our farm in the next year or two is Vitters, Jackson, and Lake, as well as some relievers, none of whom are sure things by any means.

 

Actually contend? Next season, meaning 2013. That is with or without Garza. Hopefully it is without. Get on board everyone, this vehicle is beginning to make its ascent.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Yeah, that wasn't a joke. Frankly, folks on here that don't understand the direction this organization is heading in baffle me. It is glaringly obvious at this point. Look around baseball right now folks. Please stop saying the Cubs have to blow a load of cheese to get better next season. It simply isn't true. I am not saying to not spend money, but splurging because we haven't done so yet isn't the answer at all. The Cubs will be a better ball club next season, and even better the season after that. It is onward and upward from here. If you can't see that, or think I am cracking a big fat one, then I am sorry.

[Backtobanks]

Nothing to add here. Just asking the board's opinions. Obviously it depends on what other moves we see, but generally if Garza gets dealt this winter what do you guys believe would be the first year the Cubs would actually contend? You have to have some starting pitching before you start adding to your starting rotation so it becomes a contending rotation. I feel like we're talking about 2015 at the earliest. Am I way off?

 

If we don't make some big trades now, I really don't see how we can without some big free agent signings or trade prospects for big league players I really don't see how we can. The only help that we have coming from our farm in the next year or two is Vitters, Jackson, and Lake, as well as some relievers, none of whom are sure things by any means.

 

Actually contend? Next season, meaning 2013. That is with or without Garza. Hopefully it is without. Get on board everyone, this vehicle is beginning to make its ascent.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Yeah, that wasn't a joke. Frankly, folks on here that don't understand the direction this organization is heading in baffle me. It is glaringly obvious at this point. Look around baseball right now folks. Please stop saying the Cubs have to blow a load of cheese to get better next season. It simply isn't true. I am not saying to not spend money, but splurging because we haven't done so yet isn't the answer at all. The Cubs will be a better ball club next season, and even better the season after that. It is onward and upward from here. If you can't see that, or think I am cracking a big fat one, then I am sorry.

 

I totally understand the direction the organization is taking, but for anybody to say we will contend in 2013 is ridiculous. Assuming the usual suspects will be traded, there are gaping holes @ 3B, RF, C, #1 & #2 starters, and 2-3 bullpen guys. Everything Theo has said is that he's not going to spend big on FA until we're close and have evaluated the young guys. Now if you're talking about 2014, the team ought to be considerably better. 2013 looks to be a year of testing prospects (Jackson, Vitters, etc.) and dumpster diving while we wait for the next set of prospects to reach the ML. Let's also remember that part of the plan is to let prospects spend the right amount of time in the minors before calling them up.

[Backtobanks]

Nothing to add here. Just asking the board's opinions. Obviously it depends on what other moves we see, but generally if Garza gets dealt this winter what do you guys believe would be the first year the Cubs would actually contend? You have to have some starting pitching before you start adding to your starting rotation so it becomes a contending rotation. I feel like we're talking about 2015 at the earliest. Am I way off?

 

If we don't make some big trades now, I really don't see how we can without some big free agent signings or trade prospects for big league players I really don't see how we can. The only help that we have coming from our farm in the next year or two is Vitters, Jackson, and Lake, as well as some relievers, none of whom are sure things by any means.

 

Actually contend? Next season, meaning 2013. That is with or without Garza. Hopefully it is without. Get on board everyone, this vehicle is beginning to make its ascent.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

why do you post on here?

 

Do you really believe the Cubs can contend in 2013 assuming they will trade Dempster and Garza (and possibly others)?

[Sammys Boombox]

It sounds like you have a case of the "I don't know where you are taking this Cubs train Theo" blues.

 

I'm giving this thing time. I'd much rather be bad for a few years if it meant we are nearly always contending. I think I am more nervous about what our payroll will look like. Under Ricketts it keeps shrinking. I'm fine with that while we're throwing seasons away, but it better be a top 5 payroll again when it's time to contend.

[neely crenshaw]

I have confidence things will get done. The only pressing move is Dempster because he will never clear waivers. Garza can be held for a better deal in the offseason and even into next year (if teams aren't ready to ante up). Soriano will clear. No reason to think guys like Johnson, Baker, Soto, Marmol would not clear waivers.

 

I think part of the frustration is that this FO has been very tight lipped. There is nothing getting leaked at all. After dealing with the circus of Hendry, it can be easy to assume the worst. As Cub fans we need to have patience and believe that our FO- (a) knows what it is doing (b) has a paln and © will get things done.

 

Also after a long frustrating season I think many fans are hoping that the trade deadlines will provide something to be excited about. We are hoping to be "wowed" by the amazing deals they have worked. We have to remember that sometimes the smartest deal is the one that you do not make.

[Guest]

I have confidence things will get done. The only pressing move is Dempster because he will never clear waivers. Garza can be held for a better deal in the offseason and even into next year (if teams aren't ready to ante up). Soriano will clear. No reason to think guys like Johnson, Baker, Soto, Marmol would not clear waivers.

 

I think part of the frustration is that this FO has been very tight lipped. There is nothing getting leaked at all. After dealing with the circus of Hendry, it can be easy to assume the worst. As Cub fans we need to have patience and believe that our FO- (a) knows what it is doing (b) has a paln and © will get things done.

 

Also after a long frustrating season I think many fans are hoping that the trade deadlines will provide something to be excited about. We are hoping to be "wowed" by the amazing deals they have worked. We have to remember that sometimes the smartest deal is the one that you do not make.

 

I want to thank you for/congratulate you on (no sarcasm or condescension intended, seriously) constructing a post in such a way that doesn't make me want to bash my head against a brick wall.

 

This is actually legible and seems like it's written by a completely different poster.

[dew1679666265]

Nothing to add here. Just asking the board's opinions. Obviously it depends on what other moves we see, but generally if Garza gets dealt this winter what do you guys believe would be the first year the Cubs would actually contend? You have to have some starting pitching before you start adding to your starting rotation so it becomes a contending rotation. I feel like we're talking about 2015 at the earliest. Am I way off?

 

I think it depends on a lot of variables, but basically with Garza I think serious contention is 2014 at the earliest and without him, 2015. I still think we can put together a team with a chance at contention by 2013 (without committing a ton of money), but I don't know if the Theo regime would be interested in that route.

 

The Dempster trade could play a big part in this as well, I think. If we can still end up with Delgado, that could accelerate our potential for contending since that's a TOR arm we'd have and wouldn't have to go get. If we either keep him or just get scraps (relatively speaking) for him, then that's a gaping hole at the top of our rotation we have to figure out how to fill - and two if we trade Garza.

[neely crenshaw]

There are so many variables that play into how soon we are "re-built".

 

Obviously every deal we make for prospects gets us a little closer. The more we get, the better chance of some working out.

The more of our current system that actually pan out is a huge factor. We need as many of our "close" prospects to become viable as possible.

What options become available in the near future-whether FA's or trades will matter.

Health of everyone (God knows this hasn't worked in our favor this year)

Young guys taking the next step.

 

I don't see how it happens any sooner than 2014 but teams have made surprises (orioles, a's, pirates) It seems they had a lot of young talent that grew up quicker than expected. We don't have that wealth of young talent yet.

[A New Era]

It bothers me for some reason every time I hear someone say we can wait til the offseason for a better offer for Garza. We said this LAST year when he had 2 years left, saying teams will be more desperate during the deadline (at 1.5 years left) and maybe we could get more. Now we are saying it again, hey no rush we can do it when he has 1 year left. Jesus, at that point just friggen extend him. It's either some team gets desperate NOW, or we extend him. Those are the only options. Sure you can play it as if there is another option for leverage, but in truth it's not there.