Pujols signs with Angels pg 151

[XZero771679666304]

If you stop talking to it, it might go away.

[erik316wttn]

Ah, NSBB, what would you be without all the constant bickering?

[BeerHere]

Ah, NSBB, what would you be without all the constant bickering?

[17 Seconds]

shut up erik

[CubColtPacer]

Enough everyone. Back on topic please.

[SouthSideRyan]

Rob, relating to that fangraphs chart, is "normal player" defined as everyone else in the majors?

[erik316wttn]

shut up erik

 

Nope. :)

 

Hopefully we can make an offer to Fielder soon so we at least can get our foot in the door. Is he waiting until Pujols signs?

Edited December 7, 2011 by erik316wttn

[apete6]

Anyone else surprised that Pujols AAV is only going to be $20-$22.5MM? I know he's getting a 10 year deal, but before the season, it was expected that his offer would increase significantly to the 8/$240 to 10/$300 range. I know he got hurt a bit and the Cardinals winning the WS lowered his value (as weird as that sounds) since they no longer need to please their fans as much.

 

I understand he may have had some 5/$150 offers or something out there that we don't know of, but I am kind of shocked that his AAV will be less than CC Sabathia, ARod, Ryan Howard, Cliff Lee, Joe Mauer, Johan Santana, Mark Teixeira, and possibly Adrian Gonzalez, Ryan Braun, and Carl Crawford, and possibly the same as Roy Halladay, and Matt Kemp.

 

Overall, a good sign for baseball that most GMs are realizing that paying players after age 35 is very risky at best and dumb at worst. The Hendry's of the world are few and far between these days.

[davearm2]

And what will be annoying if the Marlins lose out on him is that they're going to throw all that money at Fielder now killing our chances of signing him.

You misspelled fortunate

 

Your point of view on this is just dumb.

I'd bet $100 you couldn't accurately explain my point of view on this.

 

I can. You'd only dole out that kind of money on some dream idealistic perfect world scenario guy like Mark Texiera that will surely work out better than Fielder.

Wrong.

 

There's an enormous chasm between "dream idealistic perfect world scenario" and "guy with obvious red flags".

 

I wouldn't dole out a contract that figures to be in the top 10 in MLB history to a guy with obvious red flags. Call me crazy I guess.

 

Besides which, people want to make Fielder an elite player (and pay him as such). He's just not elite, even if we ignore the red flags.

[XZero771679666304]

Anyone else surprised that Pujols AAV is only going to be $20-$22.5MM? I know he's getting a 10 year deal, but before the season, it was expected that his offer would increase significantly to the 8/$240 to 10/$300 range. I know he got hurt a bit and the Cardinals winning the WS lowered his value (as weird as that sounds) since they no longer need to please their fans as much.

 

I understand he may have had some 5/$150 offers or something out there that we don't know of, but I am kind of shocked that his AAV will be less than CC Sabathia, ARod, Ryan Howard, Cliff Lee, Joe Mauer, Johan Santana, Mark Teixeira, and possibly Adrian Gonzalez, Ryan Braun, and Carl Crawford, and possibly the same as Roy Halladay, and Matt Kemp.

 

Overall, a good sign for baseball that most GMs are realizing that paying players after age 35 is very risky at best and dumb at worst. The Hendry's of the world are few and far between these days.

 

Albert's "down" season had an effect in and of itself, but it had the added effect of making people (myself included) take a closer look at his numbers, which have actually been in decline for 3-4 years. Combine that with his age and I think you get some reason. Frankly I'm still a bit surprised teams are still willing to give him 10 years.

Edited December 7, 2011 by XZero77

[davearm2]

Overall, a good sign for baseball that most GMs are realizing that paying players after age 35 is very risky at best and dumb at worst.

Hopefully NSBB won't be far behind.

[erik316wttn]

Wrong.

 

There's an enormous chasm between "dream idealistic perfect world scenario" and "guy with obvious red flags".

 

I wouldn't dole out a contract that figures to be in the top 10 in MLB history to a guy with obvious red flags. Call me crazy I guess.

 

Besides which, people want to make Fielder an elite player (and pay him as such). He's just not elite, even if we ignore the red flags.

 

How is Fielder not elite? At worst he's one of the 3 best sluggers in the game today.

[Sammy Sofa]

Hopefully you'll leave NSBB far behind.

[erik316wttn]

Hopefully you'll leave NSBB far behind.

 

You do know you have an ignore feature, right?

[Sammy Sofa]

Shut up, erik.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

How is Fielder not elite? At worst he's one of the 3 best sluggers in the game today.

 

He's really not.

 

He's only finished in the top 3 in the NL in oWAR once, and that was 2009.

 

(Also, just because I had to go on his B-R page to find that, his middle name is Semien. Come on.)

[Exile on Waveland]

Rob, relating to that fangraphs chart, is "normal player" defined as everyone else in the majors?

 

The author's conclusion was that he proved it was "clear that [Fielder's] best days are behind him" (emphasis supplied). Not that his analysis showed that, historically, players shaped similar to Fielder generally aged poorly; but that comparisions to other players proved, clearly, that Fielder's immediate decline was already written. Such hubris, such complete misunderstanding of what proof entails, should alone call into question the entirety of his analysis.

[erik316wttn]

Shut up, erik.

 

Only if you go [expletive] yourself. :)

[erik316wttn]

How is Fielder not elite? At worst he's one of the 3 best sluggers in the game today.

 

He's really not.

 

He's only finished in the top 3 in the NL in oWAR once, and that was 2009.

 

(Also, just because I had to go on his B-R page to find that, his middle name is Semien. Come on.)

 

:lol: :lol:

[SouthSideRyan]

Shut up Erik.

[Guest]

Anyone else surprised that Pujols AAV is only going to be $20-$22.5MM? I know he's getting a 10 year deal, but before the season, it was expected that his offer would increase significantly to the 8/$240 to 10/$300 range. I know he got hurt a bit and the Cardinals winning the WS lowered his value (as weird as that sounds) since they no longer need to please their fans as much.

 

I understand he may have had some 5/$150 offers or something out there that we don't know of, but I am kind of shocked that his AAV will be less than CC Sabathia, ARod, Ryan Howard, Cliff Lee, Joe Mauer, Johan Santana, Mark Teixeira, and possibly Adrian Gonzalez, Ryan Braun, and Carl Crawford, and possibly the same as Roy Halladay, and Matt Kemp.

 

Overall, a good sign for baseball that most GMs are realizing that paying players after age 35 is very risky at best and dumb at worst. The Hendry's of the world are few and far between these days.

 

 

Who are all these examples of old guys that Hendry doled out huge money to? Soriano and who else?

 

 

Hendry sucked because he didn't know what made good players good (valued the wrong qualities) and because the front office was stuck in the past in general with regard to running an organization.

 

He didn't suck because he was doling out $20M a year to 35 year olds.

[Banedon]

Knock it off guys. No more warnings.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Who are all these examples of old guys that Hendry doled out huge money to? Soriano and who else?

 

Hendry sucked because he didn't know what made good players good (valued the wrong qualities) and because the front office was stuck in the past in general with regard to running an organization.

 

He didn't suck because he was doling out $20M a year to 35 year olds.

 

I don't know how many more times this needs to be said, but I'll quote it just so it appears one more time.

 

The list of reasons the Cubs were bad the last two seasons, in order of importance:

 

 

1) The complete, horrific failure of the mid-2000s drafts.

2) The complete, horrific failure of the mid-2000s drafts.

3) The complete, horrific failure of the mid-2000s drafts.

...

...

...

998)The complete, horrific failure of the mid-2000s drafts.

999) Some bad luck in 2011

1000) Overpaying by a bit for some good but not elite free agents and contract extensions.

[UMFan83]

Wrong.

 

There's an enormous chasm between "dream idealistic perfect world scenario" and "guy with obvious red flags".

 

I wouldn't dole out a contract that figures to be in the top 10 in MLB history to a guy with obvious red flags. Call me crazy I guess.

 

Besides which, people want to make Fielder an elite player (and pay him as such). He's just not elite, even if we ignore the red flags.

 

How is Fielder not elite? At worst he's one of the 3 best sluggers in the game today.

 

His career SLG% is 12th among active players, and last year was 5th overall.

[apete6]

Anyone else surprised that Pujols AAV is only going to be $20-$22.5MM? I know he's getting a 10 year deal, but before the season, it was expected that his offer would increase significantly to the 8/$240 to 10/$300 range. I know he got hurt a bit and the Cardinals winning the WS lowered his value (as weird as that sounds) since they no longer need to please their fans as much.

 

I understand he may have had some 5/$150 offers or something out there that we don't know of, but I am kind of shocked that his AAV will be less than CC Sabathia, ARod, Ryan Howard, Cliff Lee, Joe Mauer, Johan Santana, Mark Teixeira, and possibly Adrian Gonzalez, Ryan Braun, and Carl Crawford, and possibly the same as Roy Halladay, and Matt Kemp.

 

Overall, a good sign for baseball that most GMs are realizing that paying players after age 35 is very risky at best and dumb at worst. The Hendry's of the world are few and far between these days.

 

 

Who are all these examples of old guys that Hendry doled out huge money to? Soriano and who else?

 

 

Hendry sucked because he didn't know what made good players good (valued the wrong qualities) and because the front office was stuck in the past in general with regard to running an organization.

 

He didn't suck because he was doling out $20M a year to 35 year olds.

 

Soriano is enough of a sample size. We also had to eat money to get Sosa and now possibly Zambrano out of town. We overpaid Maddux because of his name/Chicago ties, signed numerous mid-30s relievers for too long (Remlinger, Eyre, Howry, etc..), not to mention the general overpaying of veterans regardless of age (Grabow, Koyie Hill, Neifi, etc..). Hell, we're probably going to end up overpaying Dempster for next season and with Hendry, he probably would have already gotten another extension.