Greinke traded to Brewers (pg 2)

[SouthSideRyan]

If they're going to install Betancourt as the starting SS they give back any gain they get from Greinke.

 

And I hate Escobar

[Rob]

How the hell can the same man who just gave guaranteed money to Jeff Francoeur pull off a deal this good?

[Guest]

If they're going to install Betancourt as the starting SS they give back any gain they get from Greinke.

 

And I hate Escobar

 

Ooh, I didn't think of that. I mean, Greinke's still an upgrade even if you project a strong season from Escobar, but it definitely dulls the effect of adding Greinke.

[Rob]

If they're going to install Betancourt as the starting SS they give back any gain they get from Greinke.

 

And I hate Escobar

 

Ooh, I didn't think of that. I mean, Greinke's still an upgrade even if you project a strong season from Escobar, but it definitely dulls the effect of adding Greinke.

 

And the probable drop from Cain to Gomez.

[brewfandave]

Gomez is a defensive upgrade from Cain, and who knows how good Cain really is at the plate? Gomez will probably do some soft platooning with Dickerson, who at least has some on-base skills.

 

Betancourt is the real mitigating factor to the value of the trade. Almost any shortstop would be better there. Heck, a full season of Craig Counsell at short would probably provide more value.

 

Despite that, this is a rotation that will miss a lot of bats, minimizing the crappiness of the Brewers' defense. We're not talking about Dave Bush, Doug Davis, and Jeff Suppan here. Wow, it feels really good thinking that those were the Brewers' 3-4-5 pitchers starting out last year.

[Ball And Glove]

The good news for the Brewers' farm system is that they have two first round picks in what's considered a loaded draft, thanks to not signing Covey last year. They absolutely have to hit on those picks (and more) in this year's draft, though, otherwise they'll have to resort to trading the likes of Braun and Gallardo in 2013/2014 to rebuild the farm system.

[Clem Fandango]

Are the Royals trying to build an offense of gritty, light hitting, slick fielding speedsters?

[davell]

Are the Royals trying to build an offense of gritty, light hitting, slick fielding speedsters?

 

 

They've got Hosmer and Moustakas coming up, probably by the end of this year. That's where they think their pop will be coming from. And with all the pitching they've got on the way, they may be able to trade some of it for some more pitching too.

[Fro]

Let's just hope nobody wins 86 the next decade because cubs should have 85 a couple times.

 

For the next 2-3 years, it looks like the Cards, Reds, and Brewers will have the NL Central, but that could change very quickly. Guys like Carpenter, Wainwright, Braun, Fielder, Greinke and maybe Pujols could find new homes in the next few years, and the Cubs have something that none of these teams seemingly have anymore, and thats a solid farm system.

 

2011 maybe, but we've got so much money coming off the books after this year that we'll be right back in it unless we spend it stupidly.

[Formerly Snayke]

Let's just hope nobody wins 86 the next decade because cubs should have 85 a couple times.

 

For the next 2-3 years, it looks like the Cards, Reds, and Brewers will have the NL Central, but that could change very quickly. Guys like Carpenter, Wainwright, Braun, Fielder, Greinke and maybe Pujols could find new homes in the next few years, and the Cubs have something that none of these teams seemingly have anymore, and thats a solid farm system.

 

2011 maybe, but we've got so much money coming off the books after this year that we'll be right back in it unless we spend it stupidly.

 

The free agent list after 2011 is not going to provide much help.

[XZero771679666304]

How the hell can the same man who just gave guaranteed money to Jeff Francoeur pull off a deal this good?

 

Because the Crew are probably desperate to make a run before Fielder walks, which he will. Still, it's a bit surprising.

 

Still, it's a good short term move for the Crew, even if Greinke is a tad on the unpredictable side.

[davell]

Seeing the Royals get this much of a haul for Greinke will probably mean the Rays will be asking for somewhat close to this for Garza, even with the discrepancy between the two of them.

[CoolHandLuke]

Does it really seem like that big of a haul to you people?

[Clem Fandango]

Does it really seem like that big of a haul to you people?

 

This is what I'm thinking. If I'm a Royals fan I'd be pissed.

[Guest]

Does it really seem like that big of a haul to you people?

 

For the right to pay Zack Greinke 2/27? Yes, the Royals made a great deal.

[CoolHandLuke]

I really don't see it.

 

It's a fine deal. Maybe even a good deal, but it's not a package that makes me drool over the guys included in it.

 

I guess I just really question whether or not Escobar will hit, and while Cain hit last year, he hasn't exactly been mr. consistent in his minor league career.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Looking over the division again, this move may very well make the Brewers division favorites. Depending how you feel about the Reds rotation anyway. Aside from Carpenter, Wainwrite, Pujols, and Holliday, St. Louis is downright bad, and if they lose any one of those 4 guys for any length of time, there in trouble, unless their gritty new shortstop can save the day. The way I see it, if the Cubs were to aquire one more front-mid rotation starter somehow, that could put them right back in the hunt. As we recall, hendry claimed that he needed 3-4 decent moves to put us back into contention, and IMHO, he made 2 of them. This could mean re-exploring a Garza trade or taking a gamble on Webb, or even Sheets whose name I havnt even heard all off season, but I guess there must be a reason for that. Pavano would be an option, but lack of options will probsbly make him very expensive.

[hawkeyecub]

Joe Posnanski's thoughts: http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2010/12/greinke-trade.html

[johnbriggs12]

Here's a Brewer fan perspective.

 

They are assured one more season with Fielder and Braun together. With 3 solid hitters around them in Weeks, Hart, and McGehee, if there was ever a time to go "all in" this was it. If they get to the playoffs, they obviously won't be favored but throwing Grienke, Marcum and Gallardo out there as the top 3 gives them a chance against the Phillies or Giants.

 

The biggest beneficiary of this deal and the one for Marcum may be Gallardo. Gallardo has ace stuff, but as a young guy has suffered from the burden of having to be the Brewer ace and carry the pitching staff. I see a huge year from Gallardo now that he won't be looked upon as the guy that has to win every time out. Don't overlook Marcum either. The guy's been a winner in the AL East.

 

Chris Narveson quietly had a pretty solid year (12-9) and is the favorite to be the number 5 starter. As a starter, Narveson had the lowest WHIP of any Brewer starter last year. Oh, and he hit .293 too. I'll take Narveson over Lohse.

 

Now the downside. None of the 4 guys they gave up was a throwaway. All were guys we really liked. Jeffress would have helped in the pen this year and was touching 101 in the Fall league. Cain and Escobar were key pieces in key positions. The Brewers are weakened up the middle though they still have decent CF defense in Gomez. The lineup didn't take a great hit, but Cain figured to hit second, and they have a rather glaring hole there. Odorizzi was looked upon as having the highest ceiling of any guy in the system.

 

The long term indeed took a hit. But keep in mind, they have 2 first round draft picks in 2011, figure to gain 2 high picks if Fielder departs via FA, and possibly 2 more if Weeks has a good year and gets to type A status too. They'll likely flip Grienke before his contract runs out and even as a rental for half of 2012, he'll bring a decent return. They think they can sign Marcum to an extension.

 

Bottom line is Melvin's been there for nearly a decade. He's on his 3rd manager. He's on thin ice. He's all in to save his job. I wouldn't say they didn't have a chance before this deal, but now they are at worst, co-favorites in the division.

[jersey cubs fan]

The biggest beneficiary of this deal and the one for Marcum may be Gallardo. Gallardo has ace stuff, but as a young guy has suffered from the burden of having to be the Brewer ace and carry the pitching staff. I see a huge year from Gallardo now that he won't be looked upon as the guy that has to win every time out. Don't overlook Marcum either. The guy's been a winner in the AL East.

 

There's no change in the burden on any pitcher. He's going to be counted on to make all his starts and pitch well, exactly like he was before the trade.

[CUBZ99]

I think it is impressive that the Brewers can put together the roster that they have managed to put together with the amount of payroll they have. Granted they basically sold the farm to get Marcum and Greinke, but they should be extremely competitive this year.

 

I can only hope that this trade doesn't cause Hendry to overreact and overpay for a pitcher. We know from personal anguish that even the best teams on paper aren't a lock to win over 162 games. I remember the Maddux signing and thinking that the Cubs were a lock for the playoffs with a rotation of Maddux, Wood, Prior, Z and Clements.

 

Rather than signing some old retread, I wouldn't mind seeing Cashner, J. Jackson, Archer, and maybe even McNutt getting a shot during Spring Training to win a spot in the rotation.

[dew1679666265]

Rather than signing some old retread, I wouldn't mind seeing Cashner, J. Jackson, Archer, and maybe even McNutt getting a shot during Spring Training to win a spot in the rotation.

 

If Hendry moves Silva or he's put in the pen, those kids may get that opportunity even if we make a move. Right now the rotation looks like this:

 

Demp

Z

Wells

Silva

Cash/Gorz/JJax

 

We already know Hendry is trying to deal Gorzelanny, and even if we sign Webb or trade for Garza, another spot could open for one of the kids with a Silva trade/move to the pen.

[erik316wttn]

I think it is impressive that the Brewers can put together the roster that they have managed to put together with the amount of payroll they have. Granted they basically sold the farm to get Marcum and Greinke, but they should be extremely competitive this year.

 

I can only hope that this trade doesn't cause Hendry to overreact and overpay for a pitcher. We know from personal anguish that even the best teams on paper aren't a lock to win over 162 games. I remember the Maddux signing and thinking that the Cubs were a lock for the playoffs with a rotation of Maddux, Wood, Prior, Z and Clements.

 

Rather than signing some old retread, I wouldn't mind seeing Cashner, J. Jackson, Archer, and maybe even McNutt getting a shot during Spring Training to win a spot in the rotation.

 

Funny how a competent GM can do something like that, eh?

[dew1679666265]

Funny how a competent GM can do something like that, eh?

 

He also mortgaged the future in the process, though. And the Marcum trade was pretty bad.

[javy knows my name]

Funny how a competent GM can do something like that, eh?

 

He also mortgaged the future in the process, though. And the Marcum trade was pretty bad.

And he's not at all competent