College Football - Championship Week (Dec. 4th)

[SouthSideRyan]

I really hope more recruits just use a family member to try to get money from a university. It's not illegal, right?

 

This whole thing is a sham.

 

The problem is if the family member accepts the benefits, they're (I think?) still eligible. Of course the NCAA has to find out about it while the kid is still in school for it to matter to them.

[dew1679666265]

Shouldn't this make Cam Newton ineligible by SEC rules?

 

SEC Bylaw 14.01.3.2:

 

“If at any time before or after matriculation in a member institution a student-athlete or any member of his/her family receives or agrees to receive, directly or indirectly, any aid or assistance beyond or in addition to that permitted by the Bylaws of this Conference (except such aid or assistance as such student-athlete may receive from those persons on whom the student is naturally or legally dependent for support), such student- athlete shall be ineligible for competition in any intercollegiate sport within the Conference for the remainder of his/her college career.”

 

Since the schools (allegedly) didn't agree to provde aid/assistance/etc. then Cecil couldn't agree to receive benefits.

 

By soliciting aren't you agreeing to do it if offered? I guess it's a technicality loophole if they simply don't want to rule him ineligible (which I'm sure they don't), but it's pretty weak.

[dew1679666265]

14.01.3.3 reads:

 

Unless said player is on a national title contender.

 

Exactly.

[fiver]

You don't think it's more likely he went to another school?

 

After soliciting MSU, Cecil may have come to the realization that he may not get a prominent school to pony up cash.....and that his actions were putting a great risk on whether or not his son would be able to prove he is NFL draft worthy.

 

If he believed that his son was as good as we know he is today, then would he risk further exposure by shopping Cam to every team that was recruiting him after he had already been turned down by one team? Did Cecil also try to shakedown Oklahoma? OU says no.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

It's also possible he farted a rainbow.

[fiver]

I really hope more recruits just use a family member to try to get money from a university. It's not illegal, right?

 

This whole thing is a sham.

 

The problem is if the family member accepts the benefits, they're (I think?) still eligible. Of course the NCAA has to find out about it while the kid is still in school for it to matter to them.

 

nope...if the benefit exchanges hands, a transaction occurs, the player is ineligible even if he knew nothing about it per my understanding.

[fiver]

It's also possible he farted a rainbow.

 

I don't know what happened, but the burden of proof is on the prosecution to condemn AU to hell. You would think that with the NCAA, FBI, every journalist, every message board poster, and Jesus Christ himself on the investigation that they would find something with which to hammer AU if there was something to be found.

[erik316wttn]

If Auburn wasn't so highly ranked Newton would be declared inelligible and Auburn would have to forfeit all its wins. This is a cover-up. Especially seeing as it would then be *gasp* TCU playing for the National title.

[shnsajax]

If Auburn wasn't so highly ranked Newton would be declared inelligible and Auburn would have to forfeit all its wins. This is a cover-up. Especially seeing as it would then be *gasp* TCU playing for the National title.

 

But TCU joined a major conference for 2012, shouldn't that make them eligible to play for the national title?

[dew1679666265]

If Auburn wasn't so highly ranked Newton would be declared inelligible and Auburn would have to forfeit all its wins. This is a cover-up. Especially seeing as it would then be *gasp* TCU playing for the National title.

 

But TCU joined a major conference for 2012, shouldn't that make them eligible to play for the national title?

 

In 2012, yes. In 2010, no.

[fiver]

If Auburn wasn't so highly ranked Newton would be declared inelligible and Auburn would have to forfeit all its wins. This is a cover-up. Especially seeing as it would then be *gasp* TCU playing for the National title.

 

Explain how the NCAA would rule Newton ineligible without breaking a precedent they set with the Albert Means case. The tinfoil hat looks good on you though.

[Warpticon]

Auburn completed an internal investigation back in July, and they found no evidence of wrongdoing on AU's behalf. The NCAA has agreed with that assessment based upon the current facts of the case. This should silence those that believed AU was 'ALL IN' (gd, i'm tired of hearing that), and chose to play Cam in spite of evidence that proved he was ineligible. AU and the NCAA are only going to act on the facts of the case.

 

Do you really believe this? All that smoke and no fire... Y'all happen to get the #1's from MS, AK, LA, FL's #3 player, GA's #5 and the top JUCO player and it's totally because Auburn is just that badass and Chizik is such a draw. C'mon.

 

Ahh, the fertile recruiting ground of Alaska.

[Formerly Snayke]

Auburn completed an internal investigation back in July, and they found no evidence of wrongdoing on AU's behalf. The NCAA has agreed with that assessment based upon the current facts of the case. This should silence those that believed AU was 'ALL IN' (gd, i'm tired of hearing that), and chose to play Cam in spite of evidence that proved he was ineligible. AU and the NCAA are only going to act on the facts of the case.

 

Do you really believe this? All that smoke and no fire... Y'all happen to get the #1's from MS, AK, LA, FL's #3 player, GA's #5 and the top JUCO player and it's totally because Auburn is just that badass and Chizik is such a draw. C'mon.

 

I'm no Auburn honk, but weirder things happen. Like the best basketball players in the country wanting to play in Lawrence, KS.

[Chisoxillini]

Arizona tied up ASU 20-20 with 27 seconds left. Thing is, they got their PAT blocked which would have given them a 21-20 lead. Wow.

[Butterscup1679666578]

What a finish. Wow.

[E.J.]

What a finish. Wow.

 

2 blocked PAT's to help win the game? Can't say I've seen that before.

[Tracer Bullet]

If Auburn wasn't so highly ranked Newton would be declared inelligible and Auburn would have to forfeit all its wins. This is a cover-up. Especially seeing as it would then be *gasp* TCU playing for the National title.

 

Explain how the NCAA would rule Newton ineligible without breaking a precedent they set with the Albert Means case. The tinfoil hat looks good on you though.

 

this is not the Means case, no matter how many times you bring it up.

[fiver]

If Auburn wasn't so highly ranked Newton would be declared inelligible and Auburn would have to forfeit all its wins. This is a cover-up. Especially seeing as it would then be *gasp* TCU playing for the National title.

 

Explain how the NCAA would rule Newton ineligible without breaking a precedent they set with the Albert Means case. The tinfoil hat looks good on you though.

 

this is not the Means case, no matter how many times you bring it up.

 

 

Please elaborate upon why you disagree. I'm not saying the cases are identical. However, did the NCAA rule that Means would be eligible to play for a team not proven to be involved in the Means money discussions? They did as he was eligible to transfer to Memphis and play there.

 

1) There is no evidence that anyone associated with Auburn University participated in a pay for play scheme.

 

2) There is no evidence that Cecil solicited Auburn for money.

 

3) My understanding is that Cam Newton would not be eligible to play for Mississippi State if he had chosen to attend that school as his father solicited that school for cash.

 

4) Cam Newton is eligible to play for Auburn University, partly because of items 1 and 2 above.

 

If you disagree with me, please provide an explanation instead of just indicating you disagree. I'm certainly open to hearing other people's interprations of this. You've indicated you disagree twice now, but I haven't yet heard why you think the Means case isn't applicable.

Edited December 3, 2010 by fiver

[Flames24Rulz]

The Bears are going to draft that guy that blocked those kicks. It's a given.

[Tracer Bullet]

If Auburn wasn't so highly ranked Newton would be declared inelligible and Auburn would have to forfeit all its wins. This is a cover-up. Especially seeing as it would then be *gasp* TCU playing for the National title.

 

Explain how the NCAA would rule Newton ineligible without breaking a precedent they set with the Albert Means case. The tinfoil hat looks good on you though.

 

this is not the Means case, no matter how many times you bring it up.

 

 

Please elaborate upon why you disagree. Did the NCAA rule that Means would be eligible to play for a team not proven to be involved in the Means money discussions? They did as he was eligible to play for Memphis.

 

1) There is no evidence that anyone associated with Auburn University participated in a pay for play scheme.

 

2) There is no evidence that Cecil solicited Auburn for money.

 

3) Cam Newton would not be eligible to play for Mississippi State if he had chosen to attend that school as his father solicited that school for cash.

 

4) Cam Newton is eligible to play for Auburn University, partly because of items 1 and 2 above.

 

If you disagree with me, please provide an explanation instead of just indicating you disagree. I'm certainly open to hearing other people's interprations of this. I haven't yet heard why you think the Means case isn't applicable.

 

In the Means case, a Bama booster paid Means' coach to steer him to Bama, which is where he ended up. My understanding is that neither Means nor anyone in his family knew of the payments before he ended up at Bama. They certainly didn't get the money and they didn't solicit the money either.

 

By contrast, Newton's father solicited money from at least one school and maybe more. Newton's father agreed to receive money beyond that permitted by the Bylaws of the NCAA. The fact that Miss State didn't agree to pay it should have been immaterial. Thus, Newton is ineligible for competition in any sport within the NCAA, per 14.01.3.2.

 

I'm not saying the NCAA got the Means case correct. There might be a different bylaw that would suggest he should have been ineligible at any school, not just the school that paid the money. But 14.01.3.2 didn't apply to Means. Neither he nor his family received or agreed to receive inappropriate benefits. But 14.01.3.2 applies to Newton. It prohibits benefits received or agreed to be received by either an athlete or his/her family. Since Newton's father agreed to receive improper benefits, Newton should be ineligible at any school.

[fiver]

In the Means case, a Bama booster paid Means' coach to steer him to Bama, which is where he ended up. My understanding is that neither Means nor anyone in his family knew of the payments before he ended up at Bama. They certainly didn't get the money and they didn't solicit the money either.

 

By contrast, Newton's father solicited money from at least one school and maybe more. Newton's father agreed to receive money beyond that permitted by the Bylaws of the NCAA. The fact that Miss State didn't agree to pay it should have been immaterial. Thus, Newton is ineligible for competition in any sport within the NCAA, per 14.01.3.2.

 

I'm not saying the NCAA got the Means case correct. There might be a different bylaw that would suggest he should have been ineligible at any school, not just the school that paid the money. But 14.01.3.2 didn't apply to Means. Neither he nor his family received or agreed to receive inappropriate benefits. But 14.01.3.2 applies to Newton. It prohibits benefits received or agreed to be received by either an athlete or his/her family. Since Newton's father agreed to receive improper benefits, Newton should be ineligible at any school.

 

First, you are referring to an SEC bylaw, not an NCAA bylaw. I'm pretty sure the NCAA made this ruling, not the SEC. Getting that important fact out of the way, here is what SEC bylaw 14.01.3.2 says:

 

If at any time before or after matriculation in a member institution a student-athlete or any member of his/her family receives or agrees to receive, directly or indirectly, any aid or assistance beyond or in addition to that permitted by the Bylaws of this Conference (except such aid or assistance as such student-athlete may receive from those persons on whom the student is naturally or legally dependent for support), such student-athlete shall be ineligible for competition in any intercollegiate sport within the Conference for the remainder of his/her college career.

 

The definition of 'agree' is 'to be in accord'. To be in 'accord', two parties must be in harmony about something, right? This wasn't the scenario in the Cam Newton case. I'm not naive enough to think the money involved with Auburn participating in a BCS bowl didn't enter the SEC commissioner's mind when he chose not to act upon this bylaw. However, he does have a leg on which to stand.

[Tracer Bullet]

In the Means case, a Bama booster paid Means' coach to steer him to Bama, which is where he ended up. My understanding is that neither Means nor anyone in his family knew of the payments before he ended up at Bama. They certainly didn't get the money and they didn't solicit the money either.

 

By contrast, Newton's father solicited money from at least one school and maybe more. Newton's father agreed to receive money beyond that permitted by the Bylaws of the NCAA. The fact that Miss State didn't agree to pay it should have been immaterial. Thus, Newton is ineligible for competition in any sport within the NCAA, per 14.01.3.2.

 

I'm not saying the NCAA got the Means case correct. There might be a different bylaw that would suggest he should have been ineligible at any school, not just the school that paid the money. But 14.01.3.2 didn't apply to Means. Neither he nor his family received or agreed to receive inappropriate benefits. But 14.01.3.2 applies to Newton. It prohibits benefits received or agreed to be received by either an athlete or his/her family. Since Newton's father agreed to receive improper benefits, Newton should be ineligible at any school.

 

First, you are referring to an SEC bylaw, not an NCAA bylaw. I'm pretty sure the NCAA made this ruling, not the SEC. Getting that important fact out of the way, here is what SEC bylaw 14.01.3.2 says:

 

If at any time before or after matriculation in a member institution a student-athlete or any member of his/her family receives or agrees to receive, directly or indirectly, any aid or assistance beyond or in addition to that permitted by the Bylaws of this Conference (except such aid or assistance as such student-athlete may receive from those persons on whom the student is naturally or legally dependent for support), such student-athlete shall be ineligible for competition in any intercollegiate sport within the Conference for the remainder of his/her college career.

 

The definition of 'agree' is 'to be in accord'. To be in 'accord', two parties must be in harmony about something, right? This wasn't the scenario in the Cam Newton case. I'm not naive enough to think the money involved with Auburn participating in a BCS bowl didn't enter the SEC commissioner's mind when he chose not to act upon this bylaw. However, he does have a leg on which to stand.

 

sorry, global replace "ncaa" with "sec" in my post and it doesn't change the outcome - newton is ineligible at Auburn. this bylaw addresses payments to players or family (like Newton's dad); it doesn't address a payment to a HS coach (unless the coach is the player or family member). ergo, the Means case doesn't apply. Do you understand that now?

 

You can disagree about whether soliciting money is agreeing to receive a benefit, but it's a terrible reading of the bylaw. agree is a 1-party action, i.e., each side has to agree to do or not do certain things to have a contract (deal, agreement, whatever term you want to use). if both agree, you have a contract. but one side can agree without the other side also agreeing; then you don't have a contract, but you do have a violation of this bylaw. So the first 2 sentences of your last paragraph are actually completely wrong.

[abuck1220]

You don't think it's more likely he went to another school?

 

After soliciting MSU, Cecil may have come to the realization that he may not get a prominent school to pony up cash.....and that his actions were putting a great risk on whether or not his son would be able to prove he is NFL draft worthy.

 

 

oh that's adorable.

[fiver]

one side can agree without the other side also agreeing; then you don't have a contract, but you do have a violation of this bylaw. So the first 2 sentences of your last paragraph are actually completely wrong.

 

I absolutely understand your stance. Your interpretation of the word 'agree' and Mike Slive's interpretation aren't in accord. He has the power to interpret the SEC bylaws. That has nothing to do with the NCAA's ruling, however, as the NCAA has their own set of bylaws.

[fiver]

You don't think it's more likely he went to another school?

 

After soliciting MSU, Cecil may have come to the realization that he may not get a prominent school to pony up cash.....and that his actions were putting a great risk on whether or not his son would be able to prove he is NFL draft worthy.

 

 

oh that's adorable.

 

I'm not an apologist for Cecil Newton's actions. He's a slimeball. He risked his son's career for some quick cash. He sells 'Jesus will save you' while living by a different set of moral values. Each additional school he solicited would have increased exposure, however. He knew that. I'm not saying he didn't solicit AU, but I hope he didn't, and there is no proof, currently, to suggest he did.