College Football - Championship Week (Dec. 4th)

[fiver]

 

this is a pretty lazy way of accusing a school of cheating. according to the rivals and scout rankings they were not even in the top 10 as far as average # of stars; their class rated #4/#6 because they had a crapload of scholarships to give out (32). it's not like they bagged a USC class with all blue chip prospects.

 

Right, that's the ONLY reason why I'm accusing them of cheating...gimme a break. There's a WHOLE hell of a lot of smoke out there. But for someone who has followed SEC West recruiting for years, that Auburn class last year was mighty fishy to a lot of people when they signed all those studs from surrounding states. As soon as they got all those guys people were remarking on "how'd they pull that off?".

 

As Truffle mentions, the class AU signed was huge in numbers but not necessarily elite quality (one top 40 recruit in Mike Dyer). You keep talking about AU getting the number #1 player from Mississippi and Louisiana, but getting Trovon Reed (Louisiana) and Shon Coleman (Mississippi) weren't exactly steals of the century. Trovon Reed was a QB in high school that every school wanted to turn into a WR. He wanted an opportunity to throw the ball on occassion, and he will get that opportunity as the wildcat player in a Gus Malzahn offense. He was redshirted this year...now, I understand you were pissed that Ole Miss didn't get Shon Coleman, but let's work with facts instead of your anecdotes, ok? Coleman, the 'best' player in Mississippi, was a 4 star recruit and was the 7th best overall offensive tackle in the country. Auburn has recruited more highly estemmed tackles than that in recent years, Lee Ziemba from Arkansas being one of those a few years ago. Marcus McNeil comes to mind..King Dunlap...Jonathan Palmer...Ben Grubbs...Tyronne Green...all are offensive linemen from Auburn that were on NFL rosters this season. Shon Coleman developed cancer, is battling for his life, and isn't on the AU roster, btw.

Edited December 2, 2010 by fiver

[fiver]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news;_ylt=Ar6obyptNcy1GotHRutsWOo5nYcB?slug=dw-newtonturn120110

 

The NCAA just ruled that as long as the player denies he knew anything about being shopped around – even by someone as close as his own father – then there is no penalty. And let’s not give any credit to the NCAA banning Cecil Newton from associating with Mississippi State (why would he anyway?) and allowing just “limited” association with Auburn, a school they’ll leave in the tail lights one minute after his son’s final game. That’s the biggest non-penalty penalty of all time.

 

At this point, why wouldn’t the parent of every recruit in America ask about getting paid? What’s the harm, right? Just do it behind your son’s back – or at least pretend. You might as well see what’s out there, even if it’s just for the fun of it.

 

The NCAA has taken one of its better deterrents – a rule that clearly stated no one representing an athlete can even solicit extra benefits – and all but reversed it. They’ve essentially said that you’d be a fool for not soliciting.

 

That ruling is such a joke.

 

Many of you are going to believe I'm biased, because I'm an AU fan, and I probably am to some degree. However, this ruling didn't set any precendents despite what all of these intelligent reporters write in their articles. Please review the Albert Means case a while back. His family solicited cash from quite a few different schools, and the NCAA ruled that he was eligible to play for a school to whom his family did not solicit compensation, Memphis. Per my undestanding, there was already a precedent in place that was followed. Am I wrong?

Edited December 2, 2010 by fiver

[tfarks]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news;_ylt=Ar6obyptNcy1GotHRutsWOo5nYcB?slug=dw-newtonturn120110

 

The NCAA just ruled that as long as the player denies he knew anything about being shopped around – even by someone as close as his own father – then there is no penalty. And let’s not give any credit to the NCAA banning Cecil Newton from associating with Mississippi State (why would he anyway?) and allowing just “limited” association with Auburn, a school they’ll leave in the tail lights one minute after his son’s final game. That’s the biggest non-penalty penalty of all time.

 

At this point, why wouldn’t the parent of every recruit in America ask about getting paid? What’s the harm, right? Just do it behind your son’s back – or at least pretend. You might as well see what’s out there, even if it’s just for the fun of it.

 

The NCAA has taken one of its better deterrents – a rule that clearly stated no one representing an athlete can even solicit extra benefits – and all but reversed it. They’ve essentially said that you’d be a fool for not soliciting.

 

That ruling is such a joke.

 

All of you guys are going to believe I'm biased, because I'm an AU fan, and I probably am to some degree. However, this ruling didn't set any precendents despite what all of these intelligent reporters write in their articles. Please review the Albert Means case a while back. His family solicited cash from quite a few different schools, and the NCAA ruled that he was eligible to play for a school to whom his family did not solicit compensation, Memphis. Am I wrong?

 

Bad analogy time for me.

This Means ruling makes no sense either. Its like trying to rob a bank but then running into another bank, not try to rob it (maybe) and the police say oh you're fine you didn't try to rob this one.

[OleMissCub]

As Truffle mentions, the class AU signed was huge in numbers but not necessarily elite quality (one top 40 recruit in Mike Dyer). Coleman, the 'best' player in Mississippi, was a 4 star recruit and was the 7th best overall offensive tackle in the country.

 

You must be using Scout.

 

Rivals had Dyer at #11, Coleman at #22 (#3 OL and a 5-star), Corey Lemonier at #35, Reed at #46, Whitaker at #56, and throw in the top JUCO player and that seems elite to me.

[Guest]

USC is apparently looking into using Cam Newton's situation in their appeal on the Reggie Bush penalties.

[fiver]

As Truffle mentions, the class AU signed was huge in numbers but not necessarily elite quality (one top 40 recruit in Mike Dyer). Coleman, the 'best' player in Mississippi, was a 4 star recruit and was the 7th best overall offensive tackle in the country.

 

You must be using Scout.

 

Rivals had Dyer at #11, Coleman at #22 (#3 OL and a 5-star), Corey Lemonier at #35, Reed at #46, Whitaker at #56, and throw in the top JUCO player and that seems elite to me.

 

AU recruits top 25 classes pretty much every year...jumping into the latter part of the top 10 isn't abnormal for them. Recruiting a top 3 class is abnormal, but what they really ended up doing was signing a ton of 4 star recruits. You have the NCAA and FBI reviewing this to see if your opinion is correct though, so we'll see. I thought all of this may be true when I heard Milton McGregor's name mentioned. However, it's looking more and more like he may not be a player in this.

[Guest]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190475253153#ht_500wt_1156

[fiver]

USC is apparently looking into using Cam Newton's situation in their appeal on the Reggie Bush penalties.

 

I don't understand how that could be considered an apples to apples comparison based upon the current facts of the Newon case. Reggie did receive benefits while playing for USC, right?

 

I assume that Cam wouldn't currently be eligible if there were evidence that Newton knew of his father's actions, or that the family had actually received an improper benefit, or that the father's solicitation had targeted Auburn.

[Banedon]

I wonder if the NCAA would have ruled Cam Newton ineligible and laid stiff penalties on Auburn if it wasn't for a non-AQ sitting in the wings waiting to take Auburns spot in the NCG.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I hope Cam Newton gets Reggie his Heisman back.

[OleMissCub]

USC is apparently looking into using Cam Newton's situation in their appeal on the Reggie Bush penalties.

 

I don't understand how that could be considered an apples to apples comparison based upon the current facts of the Newon case. Reggie did receive benefits while playing for USC, right?

 

I assume that Cam wouldn't currently be eligible if there were evidence that Newton knew of his father's actions, or that the family had actually received an improper benefit, or that the father's solicitation had targeted Auburn.

 

But do you really think he didn't know?

[fiver]

I wonder if the NCAA would have ruled Cam Newton ineligible and laid stiff penalties on Auburn if it wasn't for a non-AQ sitting in the wings waiting to take Auburns spot in the NCG.

 

they would have needed to break a precedent set in the Means case to rule Cam ineligible.....but yeah, I've heard many people state this.

[fiver]

USC is apparently looking into using Cam Newton's situation in their appeal on the Reggie Bush penalties.

 

I don't understand how that could be considered an apples to apples comparison based upon the current facts of the Newon case. Reggie did receive benefits while playing for USC, right?

 

I assume that Cam wouldn't currently be eligible if there were evidence that Newton knew of his father's actions, or that the family had actually received an improper benefit, or that the father's solicitation had targeted Auburn.

 

But do you really think he didn't know?

 

if I had to guess, I'd say he probably knew...although I'm not sure if even that would have made Cam inelgible. Did Albert Means know about the solicitations of many universities for his services? The NCAA ruled he was able to play for another team not involved in the 'money talks'.

 

People are incorrectly calling this the 'Cam Newton loophole'. It's the 'Albert Means loophole'.

[SouthSideRyan]

Do you really think he only solicited Mississippi State?

[fiver]

Many people who get paid to write articles are misidentifying what happened. Many are saying this opens a loophole so that any recruit's family can solicit cash if the the player doesn't know anything about it. The player wouldn't be able to play for team that was solicated per my understanding, and if cash actually exchanges hands, then that would also make the player ineligible.

[fiver]

Do you really think he only solicited Mississippi State?

 

If Cecil was turned down by MSU, then I think it's definitely possible he terminated this endeavor altogether.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Do you really think he only solicited Mississippi State?

 

If Cecil was turned down by MSU, then I think it's definitely possible he terminated this endeavor altogether.

You don't think it's more likely he went to another school?

[jersey cubs fan]

Do you really think he only solicited Mississippi State?

 

If Cecil was turned down by MSU, then I think it's definitely possible he terminated this endeavor altogether.

You don't think it's more likely he went to another school?

 

Like when the first woman on the corner rebuffs your offer and you just move on to another?

[Tracer Bullet]

USC is apparently looking into using Cam Newton's situation in their appeal on the Reggie Bush penalties.

 

I don't understand how that could be considered an apples to apples comparison based upon the current facts of the Newon case. Reggie did receive benefits while playing for USC, right?

 

I assume that Cam wouldn't currently be eligible if there were evidence that Newton knew of his father's actions, or that the family had actually received an improper benefit, or that the father's solicitation had targeted Auburn.

 

But do you really think he didn't know?

 

if I had to guess, I'd say he probably knew...although I'm not sure if even that would have made Cam inelgible. Did Albert Means know about the solicitations of many universities for his services? The NCAA ruled he was able to play for another team not involved in the 'money talks'.

 

People are incorrectly calling this the 'Cam Newton loophole'. It's the 'Albert Means loophole'.

 

there was a hell of a lot more going on in the Means thing than simply offering his signature for money.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Do you really think he only solicited Mississippi State?

 

If Cecil was turned down by MSU, then I think it's definitely possible he terminated this endeavor altogether.

You don't think it's more likely he went to another school?

 

Like when the first woman on the corner rebuffs your offer and you just move on to another?

Bingo

[dew1679666265]

I wonder if the NCAA would have ruled Cam Newton ineligible and laid stiff penalties on Auburn if it wasn't for a non-AQ sitting in the wings waiting to take Auburns spot in the NCG.

 

This wouldn't surprise me at all.

[dew1679666265]

Shouldn't this make Cam Newton ineligible by SEC rules?

 

SEC Bylaw 14.01.3.2:

 

“If at any time before or after matriculation in a member institution a student-athlete or any member of his/her family receives or agrees to receive, directly or indirectly, any aid or assistance beyond or in addition to that permitted by the Bylaws of this Conference (except such aid or assistance as such student-athlete may receive from those persons on whom the student is naturally or legally dependent for support), such student- athlete shall be ineligible for competition in any intercollegiate sport within the Conference for the remainder of his/her college career.”

[jersey cubs fan]

14.01.3.3 reads:

 

Unless said player is on a national title contender.

[SouthSideRyan]

Shouldn't this make Cam Newton ineligible by SEC rules?

 

SEC Bylaw 14.01.3.2:

 

“If at any time before or after matriculation in a member institution a student-athlete or any member of his/her family receives or agrees to receive, directly or indirectly, any aid or assistance beyond or in addition to that permitted by the Bylaws of this Conference (except such aid or assistance as such student-athlete may receive from those persons on whom the student is naturally or legally dependent for support), such student- athlete shall be ineligible for competition in any intercollegiate sport within the Conference for the remainder of his/her college career.”

 

Since the schools (allegedly) didn't agree to provde aid/assistance/etc. then Cecil couldn't agree to receive benefits.

[Flames24Rulz]

I really hope more recruits just use a family member to try to get money from a university. It's not illegal, right?

 

This whole thing is a sham.