Re: 2010-2011 NBA Thread

[SouthSideRyan]

Rajon Rondo gets to the free throw line less per shot attempt than Derrick Rose does.

 

And it's a good thing, what with him being such a marksman from the line.

 

If the entire NBA wasn't so busy inadvertantly attacking him, maybe he'd be healthy enough to hit his free throws.

 

Rondo takes half as many shots as Rose, and is not even the 3rd scoring option that defenses key in on stopping. Rose is cutting through double teams and driving to the hole constantly.

 

And Rose takes more than twice as many free throws. What do # of shot attempts have to do with anything? Where do you think Rondo's assists are coming from? Just standing at the top of the key handing the ball off to Ray Allen? He creates through dribble penetration and opens up teammates by drawing defenders to him. Despite drawing these secondary defenders, he does not get to the free throw line.

[Cubbies622]

Don't forget Rose is knocking down the 3 now!

[UMFan83]

Sure that can definitely be argued, but it doesn't really prove that the Bulls deserve to be ranked higher. And this argument of "we're a better team, just not when we play head-to-head" is absolute BS. Part of being a better team is head-to-head results, which Orlando has dominated and have shown no signs that they won't continue to dominate.

 

So in one game they've proven they can't compete. In a game where the Bulls were returning from a lenghthy road trip (it's commonly believed that game is a big trap for teams). In a game where we were incorporating what is supposed to be our number 2 scorer into the rotation, when our point guard has never had a low post player to work into the offense in his NBA career. One game. Considering the Bulls have replaced 6 of their 10 rotation players from last year to this year, I wouldn't necessarily consider last year's results relevant.

 

You are right that Orlando is a tough matchup against the Bulls IMO, which is obvious on paper. Orlando is a great team, and they are probably but not definitely better than the Bulls. I don't think the Bulls are quite at the Miami, Boston, Orlando level yet, but then again I hold my final judgement when I see how this team evolves over the course of the season. Boozer has played like 8 games with the team. It can take 2 months to really get comfortable with a big part of the offense like that.

[SouthSideRyan]

Don't forget Rose is knocking down the 3 now!

 

Probably getting robbed of free throws on those too!

[UMFan83]

Rajon Rondo gets to the free throw line less per shot attempt than Derrick Rose does.

 

And it's a good thing, what with him being such a marksman from the line.

 

If the entire NBA wasn't so busy inadvertantly attacking him, maybe he'd be healthy enough to hit his free throws.

 

Rondo takes half as many shots as Rose, and is not even the 3rd scoring option that defenses key in on stopping. Rose is cutting through double teams and driving to the hole constantly.

 

And Rose takes more than twice as many free throws. What do # of shot attempts have to do with anything? Where do you think Rondo's assists are coming from? Just standing at the top of the key handing the ball off to Ray Allen? He creates through dribble penetration and opens up teammates by drawing defenders to him. Despite drawing these secondary defenders, he does not get to the free throw line.

 

I'm saying he's not heavily defensed as a scoring option because he takes half as many shots as Rose. Obviously he's a big part of an opponents defensive game plan, but Rose is someone who at times is the entire Bulls offense and defenses throw everything at him. Rose has the 2nd lowest FTA per FGA in the NBA for high volume shooters. I honestly can't remember what the qualification was for high volume shooter and I'm having trouble finding the article I got that from (its on RealGM somewhere), but Danny Granger is the only one with less.

[SouthSideRyan]

Don't forget Rose is knocking down the 3 now!

 

Probably getting robbed of free throws on those too!

 

On a serious note, 21% of Rose's shots are 3s, whereas 7.7% of Rondo's are. And still, more FTs for Rose.

[UMFan83]

Don't forget Rose is knocking down the 3 now!

 

Probably getting robbed of free throws on those too!

 

What are you the homer slayer? Every team's fanbase has homers, and most know they are being homers. You made your point repeatedly and have done it in a variety of ways, the least effective of which is sarcasm. It's time to move on to something else guy.

[SpongeWorthy]

Rajon Rondo gets to the free throw line less per shot attempt than Derrick Rose does.

 

And it's a good thing, what with him being such a marksman from the line.

 

If the entire NBA wasn't so busy inadvertantly attacking him, maybe he'd be healthy enough to hit his free throws.

 

Rondo takes half as many shots as Rose, and is not even the 3rd scoring option that defenses key in on stopping. Rose is cutting through double teams and driving to the hole constantly.

 

And Rose takes more than twice as many free throws. What do # of shot attempts have to do with anything? Where do you think Rondo's assists are coming from? Just standing at the top of the key handing the ball off to Ray Allen? He creates through dribble penetration and opens up teammates by drawing defenders to him. Despite drawing these secondary defenders, he does not get to the free throw line.

 

# of shot attempts and the type of shots one takes has a huge amount to do with how often you get to the line.

 

Rondo doesn't get to the line because he only shoots when he's unguarded.

[JonJayCutler]

You are right that Orlando is a tough matchup against the Bulls IMO, which is obvious on paper. Orlando is a great team, and they are probably but not definitely better than the Bulls. I don't think the Bulls are quite at the Miami, Boston, Orlando level yet, but then again I hold my final judgement when I see how this team evolves over the course of the season. Boozer has played like 8 games with the team. It can take 2 months to really get comfortable with a big part of the offense like that.

 

Don't forget how this debate started, with people claiming the Bulls are better than Orlando, not the other way around. More than anything I'm just trying to defend my team from getting put below a team I don't feel they are inferior to.

 

I've stated my opinions on the matter though, and you all have stated yours. Not really much else to do but to watch some NBA and see how it turns out.

[David]

Yea, guy!

[SpongeWorthy]

Don't forget Rose is knocking down the 3 now!

 

Probably getting robbed of free throws on those too!

 

On a serious note, 21% of Rose's shots are 3s, whereas 7.7% of Rondo's are. And still, more FTs for Rose.

 

Only 3 guards take more shots at the rim per game than Rose: Westbrook, Wade, and Parker. Westbrook and Wade take a LOT more free throws than Rose does. Parker's never been a high FT guy but according to the stats, Rose plays more like Parker than he does Westbrook or Wade. I don't buy that for a minute.

 

If you combine shots taken within 10 feet of the basket with shots at the rim only Westbrook takes more among guards (.1 more per game) and he attempts 4.5 free throws more per game. He literally takes more than double the free throws per game by taking virtually the same amount of shots around the basket. And that's completely ignoring free throw attempst off of jump shots where Rose clearly takes more. It's extremely unlikely that referring doesn't explain some of the difference between Rose and the other high FT guys.

 

Christ, 85% of Durant's shots are jumpers and he gets to the line more than Michael Jordan ever did.

Edited December 14, 2010 by SpongeWorthy

[David]

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/26447269seems appropriate to what is being discussed

[bukie]

Don't forget how this debate started, with people claiming the Bulls are better than Orlando, not the other way around.

No, the "debate" started when someone dared claim the Bulls' best case scenario for the year was finishing 3rd ahead of Orlando in the standings, and then you felt the need to assert Orlando's dominance by citing a single game, and then proceeded to figuratively stick your fingers in your ears and hum to yourself for 5 hours.

[SpongeWorthy]

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/26447269seems appropriate to what is being discussed

 

Naw, we're just homers.

 

There's no data at all to back up any of these claims.

[UMFan83]

Yea, guy!

 

I thought that it made my comment more badass.

[JonJayCutler]

Don't forget how this debate started, with people claiming the Bulls are better than Orlando, not the other way around.

No, the "debate" started when someone dared claim the Bulls' best case scenario for the year was finishing 3rd ahead of Orlando in the standings, and then you felt the need to assert Orlando's dominance by citing a single game, and then proceeded to figuratively stick your fingers in your ears and hum to yourself for 5 hours.

 

I don't understand this. Every argument I've made in this thread has been valid, even if you don't agree with it. Do you expect me to admit the Bulls are the better team without any real proof of it?

[David]

Yea, guy!

 

I thought that it made my comment more badass.

 

It wasn't awful.

[bukie]

Don't forget how this debate started, with people claiming the Bulls are better than Orlando, not the other way around.

No, the "debate" started when someone dared claim the Bulls' best case scenario for the year was finishing 3rd ahead of Orlando in the standings, and then you felt the need to assert Orlando's dominance by citing a single game, and then proceeded to figuratively stick your fingers in your ears and hum to yourself for 5 hours.

 

I don't understand this. Every argument I've made in this thread has been valid, even if you don't agree with it. Do you expect me to admit the Bulls are the better team without any real proof of it?

You not only misrepresented the argument, but you continue to not even acknowledge the actual argument. You made up an argument and your side of the debate consists of one result from one game.

 

Nobody is arguing that the Bulls are clearly better than the Magic. Just that they have been comparable to this point and that the Bulls have a puncher's chance of ending the season with a better record.

[Guest]

I forget, if a team wins its division does it finish with a higher seed than every other team that didn't win its division?

 

I believe a division winner can be ranked no lower than fourth. So if the top two teams are from the same division, they'll be No. 1 and No. 2 rather than No. 1 and No. 4. Home court also goes to the team with more wins. So in 2007, No. 4 Miami (44 wins) played No. 5 Chicago (49) and No. 4 Utah (51) played No. 5 Houston (52) in the first round and both Chicago and Houston had home court.

[bukie]

I forget, if a team wins its division does it finish with a higher seed than every other team that didn't win its division?

 

I believe a division winner can be ranked no lower than fourth. So if the top two teams are from the same division, they'll be No. 1 and No. 2 rather than No. 1 and No. 4. Home court also goes to the team with more wins. So in 2007, No. 4 Miami (44 wins) played No. 5 Chicago (49) and No. 4 Utah (51) played No. 5 Houston (52) in the first round and both Chicago and Houston had home court.

This is correct.

[JonJayCutler]

Don't forget how this debate started, with people claiming the Bulls are better than Orlando, not the other way around.

No, the "debate" started when someone dared claim the Bulls' best case scenario for the year was finishing 3rd ahead of Orlando in the standings, and then you felt the need to assert Orlando's dominance by citing a single game, and then proceeded to figuratively stick your fingers in your ears and hum to yourself for 5 hours.

 

I don't understand this. Every argument I've made in this thread has been valid, even if you don't agree with it. Do you expect me to admit the Bulls are the better team without any real proof of it?

You not only misrepresented the argument, but you continue to not even acknowledge the actual argument. You made up an argument and your side of the debate consists of one result from one game.

 

Nobody is arguing that the Bulls are clearly better than the Magic. Just that they have been comparable to this point and that the Bulls have a puncher's chance of ending the season with a better record.

 

It's pretty hard to argue that a team will finish with a better record without arguing that they're also a better team. Even if that's not what people meant, that's how it came across. Especially considering nothing about remaining schedules was even mentioned, which would be the primary way a team finishes ahead of a better team in the standings, right?

[JonJayCutler]

Truce though. It doesn't really matter with it still being rather early in the season.

 

Perhaps after the 90s I've enjoyed being better than the Bulls a little too much and it sucks that we're almost even now lol. :P

[SouthSideRyan]

It's extremely unlikely that referring doesn't explain some of the difference between Rose and the other high FT guys.

 

 

And nobody has given me a satisfactory answer as to why Rose is being discriminated against by referees. "There oughta be an investigation" is not an acceptable answer Stacey

[SouthSideRyan]

 

# of shot attempts and the type of shots one takes has a huge amount to do with how often you get to the line.

 

Rondo doesn't get to the line because he only shoots when he's unguarded.

 

You're going to have to explain to me how # of shot attempts affects % of FTs attempted. I don't doubt that Rondo takes a higher % of unguarded shots than Rose (though you're certainly overstating it), but it's also likely that he dishes more while heavily guarded. Of course, there'd have to be a bonus for him to shoot in these situations, but it's not insignificant.

[SouthSideRyan]

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/26447269seems appropriate to what is being discussed

 

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How high up does this cover-up go??