lee traded to atlanta for 3 minor league pitchers

[J.R.]

http://chictrib.image2.trb.com/chinews/media/photo/2008-10/43067486.jpg

 

How different is his Cubs career if the [expletive] on the left never existed?

[Magnetic Curses]

There's a huge difference between "average" and "replacement level".

 

Also, the Cubs don't seem to be in a position to spend a bunch of money. If they could sign a great 1B I'd be all for it, but if not you have to look for a cost-effective option. Soriano isn't a cost-effective option.

 

cost-effective option? what the hell are you talking about? he's already on the team.

 

the cost effective option is to move soriano to first and replace him with colvin in left instead of spending the millions an average first baseman that you could be using to make an attempt at a starting pitcher.

 

I imagine next season Soriano will play left and Colvin will be the regular RF. The Cubs will either sign an average 1B as a stopgap or they will try to promote someone from within and hope they can hold the position until more money comes off the books.

 

and fukudome's salary is magically coming off of the books? putting colvin in left IS money off the books.

[J.R.]

When talk of a Lee trade surfaced early Wednesday, few experts thought the Cubs were getting significant talent for him. But that changed when the Cubs agreed to pay most of

Lee's salary the remainder of the season, exploiting Atlanta's lack of financial flexibility and need to sit the slumping Troy Glaus with Chipper Jones out for the rest of the year.

 

While Tom Ricketts would love to cut his payroll, he signed off on this deal because Hendry told him the talent coming back was worth the expense.

 

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/08/rogers-hendry-uses-his-noodle-in-dealing-lee.html

[ELCABALLO45]

Great. Now we have nothing to show for Hee-Seop Choi.

 

This made me laugh.

 

Also, pretty random but holy crap the NL sucks this year.

[Radar3454]

I have not read all of the posts in this thread but I am going to add my .02 anyway - I would like to see Soriano try 1B. I think he could be average or above defensively as it is a much easier position that 2nd. Getting balls out of the dirt when you are stationary is different than having to move and field balls. There is a learning curve as 1B a bit opposite than other positions b/c you have to be ready to cover the base rather than just reacting and going to the ball. If he was not a horrible in the outfield I would leave him where he is but I don't see him getting any better out there at this point.

[Sammy Sofa]

If he was not a horrible in the outfield I would leave him where he is but I don't see him getting any better out there at this point.

 

He's not horrible in the OF.

[Magnetic Curses]

he's not horrible but what's point? if you can save a lot of money by having him at first is the difference all that much?

[Geech]

What average 1B is available? Dunn? He's going to be way overpriced for what he brings to the team. Signing a player to be a stopgap at first is a terrible waste of money.

[inari]

What average 1B is available? Dunn? He's going to be way overpriced for what he brings to the team. Signing a player to be a stopgap at first is a terrible waste of money.

 

Dunn will be overpriced?

[Fro]

What average 1B is available? Dunn? He's going to be way overpriced for what he brings to the team. Signing a player to be a stopgap at first is a terrible waste of money.

 

Huh? You can stick anyone who can hit at 1B... there's no reason to move Soriano there when he's more valuable in the OF.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I know there are reports that Hoffpauir will be recalled in Lees place, but Hoffs DHng in Iowa this evening, however, Brian LaHair is playing 1B. Could they be entertaining the idea of bringing him up instead?

[Geech]

What average 1B is available? Dunn? He's going to be way overpriced for what he brings to the team. Signing a player to be a stopgap at first is a terrible waste of money.

 

Huh? You can stick anyone who can hit at 1B... there's no reason to move Soriano there when he's more valuable in the OF.

 

I'm responding specifically to Riscio's claim that we should sign an "average 1B" -- as if that is something that just grows on trees -- by asking who he thinks is available.

 

As far as moving Soriano, why isn't he "anyone"? If you can stick anyone there according to you, why not Soriano? Any outfielder would be more valuable in the OF than at 1B when you follow Riscio's logic, so that won't change. Someone like Hoffpauir is essentially a replacement player, so that's not really much of a solution either. Who do you recommend putting at first?

[Geech]

Dunn will be overpriced?

 

Quite possibly. There isn't much else available, so I think he'll get a big payday.

[Omar]

A girl posted this today on Facebook.

 

http://i36.tinypic.com/2zyai5j.png

[Magnetic Curses]

What average 1B is available? Dunn? He's going to be way overpriced for what he brings to the team. Signing a player to be a stopgap at first is a terrible waste of money.

 

Huh? You can stick anyone who can hit at 1B... there's no reason to move Soriano there when he's more valuable in the OF.

 

as if "anyone who can hit" are a dime a dozen.

 

there's a real reason to move soriano to first, to conserve money TO SPEND ON PITCHING.

[Radar3454]

If he was not a horrible in the outfield I would leave him where he is but I don't see him getting any better out there at this point.

 

He's not horrible in the OF.

 

I've seen him play horribly many many times and make very few catches that were not routine. On a scale from 1-10(10 being the best) he would come in around a 4 IMO and he is only that high b/c he has a great arm. He is better than Dunn out there but is well below average.

[Rob]

We'd be better off signing Branyan for 1B next year than moving Sori, whose defensive skillset is a disaster in waiting at 1B.

[Little Slide Rooter]

A girl posted this today on Facebook.

 

http://i36.tinypic.com/2zyai5j.png

 

I bet this 12 year old got her silly bands all bent out of shape when Ryan Theriot was traded.

[CubColtPacer]

If he was not a horrible in the outfield I would leave him where he is but I don't see him getting any better out there at this point.

 

He's not horrible in the OF.

 

I've seen him play horribly many many times and make very few catches that were not routine. On a scale from 1-10(10 being the best) he would come in around a 4 IMO and he is only that high b/c he has a great arm. He is better than Dunn out there but is well below average.

 

Soriano's speed also makes some plays look routine that drop well in front of other LF's. He isn't the bumbling LF that you see on a lot of teams. For example: Manny, Ibanez, Burrell, Gomes, Carlos Lee, etc. Then there are the LF's who have similar range to Soriano at this point but no arm: Podsednik, Pierre, etc.

 

Soriano's defense is sort of like a .750 OPS shortstop is on offense. He's still probably the worst defender on the field for the Cubs. But the bar for LF's in MLB is so low (just like the bar for SS's for offense is so low) that he's probably a little above average out there. There are very few LF's that posess his combination of speed and arm out there and while he definitely makes more bad plays out there than most, that still doesn't drag him down below the guys who can't get to balls unless it's hit right at them.

[Sammy Sofa]

If he was not a horrible in the outfield I would leave him where he is but I don't see him getting any better out there at this point.

 

He's not horrible in the OF.

 

I've seen him play horribly many many times and make very few catches that were not routine. On a scale from 1-10(10 being the best) he would come in around a 4 IMO and he is only that high b/c he has a great arm. He is better than Dunn out there but is well below average.

 

You're not basing this on anything except what you think you've seen?

[Omar]

A girl posted this today on Facebook.

 

http://i36.tinypic.com/2zyai5j.png

 

I bet this 12 year old got her silly bands all bent out of shape when Ryan Theriot was traded.

 

I don't think she knew D. Lee's 2010 stats very well.

[abuck1220]

If he was not a horrible in the outfield I would leave him where he is but I don't see him getting any better out there at this point.

 

He's not horrible in the OF.

 

I've seen him play horribly many many times and make very few catches that were not routine. On a scale from 1-10(10 being the best) he would come in around a 4 IMO and he is only that high b/c he has a great arm. He is better than Dunn out there but is well below average.

 

you know, with all the flaws in the available defensive metrics, i'm really starting to warm to this 1-10 scale business.

[CubColtPacer]

We'd be better off signing Branyan for 1B next year than moving Sori, whose defensive skillset is a disaster in waiting at 1B.

 

Completely agreed. Even if the Cubs wanted to go with a Soto/Soriano/Dewitt/Castro/Ramirez/Fukudome/Byrd/Colvin lineup to save money, of those 8 players Soriano would only be 3rd to 5th on that list to play 1st. The Cubs could create many better defensive lineups by shifting other players around than Soriano. And that doesn't even address all the free agents, and the Cubs wouldn't have to find a very good one at all to be better than moving Soriano to 1st.

 

Someone said that players with defensive deficiencies move to 1st all the time. Most players deficiencies are not like Soriano though. Players who move to 1st tend to either be too slow to play anywhere else or have a bad shoulder and cannot throw as much anymore. I can't think of an example of a player who moved to 1st only because he had poor hands at another position (one might be out there, but they probably are few). You would not be hiding Soriano at 1st at all.

 

And while a lot of people can play acceptable first base defense which makes it less important as a whole, at the margins first base defense can be very important. And while Lee probably qualified as one guy who could actually help his team defensively at 1B, Soriano would almost certainly hurt the team badly there.

 

While I recognize there are some advantages to moving him, moving an average defender at LF to become a terrible defender at 1B which also happens to require slightly more offense over the last 5-6 years is almost certainly a very bad move.

[Radar3454]

If he was not a horrible in the outfield I would leave him where he is but I don't see him getting any better out there at this point.

 

He's not horrible in the OF.

 

I've seen him play horribly many many times and make very few catches that were not routine. On a scale from 1-10(10 being the best) he would come in around a 4 IMO and he is only that high b/c he has a great arm. He is better than Dunn out there but is well below average.

 

You're not basing this on anything except what you think you've seen?

 

What I think I've seen???? He does not go come in, go back, or go to his right well. He does cover a decent amount of ground to his left - not as much as he should with his speed though.

[Outshined_One]

There are very few LF's that posess his combination of speed and arm out there and while he definitely makes more bad plays out there than most, that still doesn't drag him down below the guys who can't get to balls unless it's hit right at them.

 

This sentence brings back memories of Glenallen Hill. A coatrack in LF with a hat and glove on it would have been a better defender than him.

 

There are some truly horrific defensive corner OFs in the game. Compared to defensive nightmares like Adam Dunn and Brad Hawpe, Soriano's actually not that awful.