Who goes to the bullpen?

[Irrelevant Dude]

When Zambrano returns to the rotation in a week or so, who will go to the bullpen? According to Bruce Levine, Randy Wells is really the only option. I don't see it that way, but if the Cubs send Wells to the bullpen I am going to be very angry. I believe they really need to find a trade for Gorzellany, but they have lost any leverage by announcing that Zambrano is coming back to the rotation.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm holding out hope it's nobody. You don't need a 7 man bullpen, and with 6 starters, there is plenty of opportunity for things like piggybacked starts and skipping guys on occasion and having them available for emergency long relief duty.

[dew1679666265]

I believe they really need to find a trade for Gorzellany, but they have lost any leverage by announcing that Zambrano is coming back to the rotation.

 

I'd prefer they keep Gorzo at this point. If he can continue at the pace he's shown the past couple of years, he can be a high quality starter long term for us.

 

That said, I kind of hope they move Silva to the pen. He's pitching well, but Rob (I think) showed some stats where he's getting a bit lucky to this point. Moving to the pen might help him keep this strong pitching going.

[soapy]

Despite his early success, I definitely hope it's Silva. Moving Wells to the bullpen would be really stupid. I could see a trade, but I'd rather see them try to get some relatively cheap production from Gorzelanny and Wells over the next few years instead of trading them.

 

Worst case scenario in my opinion is trading Wells or Gorzelanny for a mediocre bullpen arm.

[Guest]

Wells, Gorzellany and Dempster have been really good this year. Silva has been good, but not as good as his ERA or record would indicate. Lilly has been battling things a bit as he just can't get the swing and misses he was last year.

 

As for Wells vs Silva, there's really no comparison as to which is more likely to continue their success. They're equally good at holding down the walks (1.8 BB / 9 IP). Wells has a slightly better percentage of inducing ground balls (and preventing home runs). And he's allowing a lot less contact as he's striking out two additional batters per nine innings.

 

The most logical person to go to the pen would be Lilly until he can get his stuff back to the point it was in his previous years with the Cubs. Next up would be Silva as he's the most likely to regress from current levels of performance.

 

If you go by advanced metrics such as xFIP, our starters rank like this:

 

1) Wells: 3.35

2) Zambrano: 3.55 (includes time in pen)

3) Gorzellany: 3.57

4) Dempster: 3.88

5) Silva: 4.22

6) Lilly: 4.83

 

So, naturally, I expect us to do the wrong thing here.

[Guest]

oh yeah...

 

If you want to include Marshall, he's sitting at an xFIP of 2.69.

 

 

FREE SEAN MARSHALL

[biittner77]

I'm holding out hope it's nobody. You don't need a 7 man bullpen, and with 6 starters, there is plenty of opportunity for things like piggybacked starts and skipping guys on occasion and having them available for emergency long relief duty.

 

I don't disagree with any of that but I think you're giving The Cubs too much credit for creative thinking. Yesterday seemed like the perfect opportunity to have Zambrano piggy back Silva. They could have easily taken Silva out after 5 then have Zambrano pitch 3 or 4 depending on the lead. INstead they're having Zambrano pitch a sim game today.

 

I think it's more likely they are trading Lilly for an upgrade somewhere hopefully other than bullpen.

[Bote McBoteface]

Move Gorz to the bullpen and DFA Grabow.

[bukie]

Trade Silva.

[Guest]

Move Gorz to the bullpen and DFA Grabow.

Why move Gorz to the pen?

[CubColtPacer]

I'm holding out hope it's nobody. You don't need a 7 man bullpen, and with 6 starters, there is plenty of opportunity for things like piggybacked starts and skipping guys on occasion and having them available for emergency long relief duty.

 

I don't disagree with any of that but I think you're giving The Cubs too much credit for creative thinking. Yesterday seemed like the perfect opportunity to have Zambrano piggy back Silva. They could have easily taken Silva out after 5 then have Zambrano pitch 3 or 4 depending on the lead. INstead they're having Zambrano pitch a sim game today.

 

I think it's more likely they are trading Lilly for an upgrade somewhere hopefully other than bullpen.

 

The question is where. Second base? That seems to be the only position available. And what team would trade away a good hitting middle infielder and yet want Lilly?

 

This decision is really complicated because of trade value considerations. If the Cubs want to trade Silva or Gorzelanny for value within the next 6 months, then they either need to trade them now or keep them in the rotation. Putting Lilly in the bullpen deflates his value at the deadline or possibly makes the Cubs less likely to offer him arbitration. That leaves Dempster and Wells. Dempster is excellent at consistently having long quality outings (he's gone at least 6 innings in every start this year). Wells had the one disaster start but is pretty good at efficiently eating innings as well. Add in that the Cubs feel that Gorzelanny and Silva would not transition well to the bullpen (which I tend to agree with) and it becomes very complicated.

 

A trade of Silva probably makes the most sense at this point but I don't know who the trade partner would be. Some scouts are probably happy to see that Silva has transformed how he pitches against left-handed batters who have killed him throughout his career. It's just hard to know how many innings a club needs to be able to say he's legit for them to be willing to pull the trigger on at least a decent part of his remaining contract.

[Guest]

Trade Silva.

My favorite option, followed by trading Lilly followed by trading Zambrano. I was just trying to answer the original question from the title of the thread.

[Guest]

Trade Silva for someone like the hawaiian in the KC system, for Lee insurance. Ramirez insurance is also welcome, but probably harder to come by.

[Guest]

Trade Silva for someone like the hawaiian in the KC system, for Lee insurance. Ramirez insurance is also welcome, but probably harder to come by.

Find out how down the Royals really are on Gordon. Pick up all of silva's remaining salary (cubs portion) if you can get him.

 

Highly doubtful it would work, but having just been in KC it amazed me how down the fans and organization seem to be on him.

[Bote McBoteface]

Move Gorz to the bullpen and DFA Grabow.

Why move Gorz to the pen?

 

For the record, I don't really care about lefty vs righty, but our management does.

 

We already have a lefty in the rotation in Lilly, and I doubt he's going anywhere. Moving Gorz to the pen would give us three lefties in the pen, which in their mind is too many. Grabow would then be the odd man out since he's pitched so horribly which would either lead to him being traded or DFAd, and that's what I really want to happen.

[Guest]

Move Gorz to the bullpen and DFA Grabow.

Why move Gorz to the pen?

 

For the record, I don't really care about lefty vs righty, but our management does.

 

We already have a lefty in the rotation in Lilly, and I doubt he's going anywhere. Moving Gorz to the pen would give us three lefties in the pen, which in their mind is too many. Grabow would then be the odd man out since he's pitched so horribly which would either lead to him being traded or DFAd, and that's what I really want to happen.

As is, moving Gorz to the pen would make four lefties: Grabow, Marshall, Russell and Gorz. Your proposal would still leave us with three there.

[Guest]

Russell, btw, has been underappreciated for the job he's done this year. he's been outstanding so far.

[Guest]

Trade Silva for someone like the hawaiian in the KC system, for Lee insurance. Ramirez insurance is also welcome, but probably harder to come by.

Find out how down the Royals really are on Gordon. Pick up all of silva's remaining salary (cubs portion) if you can get him.

 

Highly doubtful it would work, but having just been in KC it amazed me how down the fans and organization seem to be on him.

 

I don't know why I didn't think of Gordon, I've been pushing to buy low on him since the offseason.

[illiniguy]

Trade Silva for someone like the hawaiian in the KC system, for Lee insurance. Ramirez insurance is also welcome, but probably harder to come by.

Find out how down the Royals really are on Gordon. Pick up all of silva's remaining salary (cubs portion) if you can get him.

 

Highly doubtful it would work, but having just been in KC it amazed me how down the fans and organization seem to be on him.

 

I don't know why I didn't think of Gordon, I've been pushing to buy low on him since the offseason.

They claim they won't trade him, but I think they are dying to move him. Dayton Moore is a [expletive]. I just don't think they will want a pitcher back. They're kinda loaded with pitching prospects.

[Guest]

Trade Silva for someone like the hawaiian in the KC system, for Lee insurance. Ramirez insurance is also welcome, but probably harder to come by.

Find out how down the Royals really are on Gordon. Pick up all of silva's remaining salary (cubs portion) if you can get him.

 

Highly doubtful it would work, but having just been in KC it amazed me how down the fans and organization seem to be on him.

 

I don't know why I didn't think of Gordon, I've been pushing to buy low on him since the offseason.

They claim they won't trade him, but I think they are dying to move him. Dayton Moore is a [expletive]. I just don't think they will want a pitcher back. They're kinda loaded with pitching prospects.

They've also got Moustakas tearing down the wall to get to the majors at this point, giving more incentive to move Gordon.

[NCCubFan]

Trade Silva for someone like the hawaiian in the KC system, for Lee insurance. Ramirez insurance is also welcome, but probably harder to come by.

You're probably thinking of Kila Ka'aihue. He was up for awhile but basically glued to the bench (1-4 with 1 RBI) and recently got sent back down.

[illiniguy]

Trade Silva for someone like the hawaiian in the KC system, for Lee insurance. Ramirez insurance is also welcome, but probably harder to come by.

Find out how down the Royals really are on Gordon. Pick up all of silva's remaining salary (cubs portion) if you can get him.

 

Highly doubtful it would work, but having just been in KC it amazed me how down the fans and organization seem to be on him.

 

I don't know why I didn't think of Gordon, I've been pushing to buy low on him since the offseason.

They claim they won't trade him, but I think they are dying to move him. Dayton Moore is a [expletive]. I just don't think they will want a pitcher back. They're kinda loaded with pitching prospects.

They've also got Moustakas tearing down the wall to get to the majors at this point, giving more incentive to move Gordon.

I am aware, but the plan now is for Gordon to play a corner outfield spot. That's why he's back in the minors to learn to play corner outfield. meanwhile they have converted catcher Mitch Maier playing centerfield and hitting around .220. Well ran team.

[sneakypower]

Gordon's got an MLE of .240/.390/.440 down in the minors right now (25 games). i don't really know why he was demoted in the first place though, he was allowed just 12 games to prove himself, with which he hit well but with absolutely no luck (18.4%! BB rate & .227 BABIP despite 26.1% LD). i'd happily give them Colvin and Silva.

[rawaction]

My guess would be Gorzo goes to the pen. I wonder if they would consider doing something really stupid like putting Dempster back there. He's the only one that has really had success in the pen before and he has late inning experience.

 

My guess is it's probably Randy Wells going to the pen, which would almost make less sense than Dempster.

[treebird]

if you get to guess two guys, i'm going to guess the other three, that way one of us is right for sure.