Bulls Offseason Thread

[C.C.]

Maybe after 4 years and a couple of titles lebron will find a team he can lead. He has a out clause in 4 years. Perhaps he lacks the confidence to gain a title with him being the focus and that will change when he wins a couple. Just trying to figure him out...

[hawkeyecub]

Yes, it's obviously it's all about his ego...that's why I'm so let down by it. OK, so he wants to be famous, hey, great. It's that he opted the relatively easy route to more fame while not maximizing his talent that seems like such a cop out to me. He could be one of the most famous athletes in the world AND one of the very best, but he's willing to let the latter fall relatively to the wayside for the sake of the former.

 

But if he stayed with Cleveland and he never won a championship, wouldn't his fame take a good hit? That's why Chicago was the perfect situation - he could have won and been the man. In Miami I don't see him doing both.

 

He's 25. If he were 30+ and made this move to grab a title, I think everyone would understand. Essentially throwing in the towel right now and saying "I'm not good enough to be the alpha dog, elevate the guys around me and lead a team that's already won 127 games the last two years to a title."

 

All the people who said he didn't have it in him to be a killer or a closer? Yeah he's trying to prove you right.

[hawkeyecub]

Do you guys like super teams?

 

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/me_amar_and_melo_BU8MzS41wIdwRYLU1D7NTJ

 

WTF? Tell me that's not Chris Paul wearing capri's and lime green shoes.

[UMFan83]

Rose has already improved a lot on defense. He went from really terrible under VDN year 1 to merely bad under VDN year 2. He'll get better.

 

I would even call Rose's defense less than average last year, instead of just bad. Man to man I would say he was actually decent. He still got burned by guards who had a quick first step because he hesitates, but he can stay in front of most everyone else.

[Old Style]

Yes, it's obviously it's all about his ego...that's why I'm so let down by it. OK, so he wants to be famous, hey, great. It's that he opted the relatively easy route to more fame while not maximizing his talent that seems like such a cop out to me. He could be one of the most famous athletes in the world AND one of the very best, but he's willing to let the latter fall relatively to the wayside for the sake of the former.

 

But if he stayed with Cleveland and he never won a championship, wouldn't his fame take a good hit? That's why Chicago was the perfect situation - he could have won and been the man. In Miami I don't see him doing both.

 

He's 25. If he were 30+ and made this move to grab a title, I think everyone would understand. Essentially throwing in the towel right now and saying "I'm not good enough to be the alpha dog, elevate the guys around me and lead a team that's already won 127 games the last two years to a title."

 

All the people who said he didn't have it in him to be a killer or a closer? Yeah he's trying to prove you right.

bingo

[rawaction]

You guys obviously hit the nail on the head. But I don't think Chicago was the perfect situation.

 

Lebron had 3 things to get out of this decision, so we all thought. Fame, Legacy, Championships. He chose to go for just 1 of those things (championships). I think in Chicago, he would have always been compared to Jordan. It would have been very hard for him to create a legacy bigger than Jordan's. Cleveland would hurt his chances to be the biggest star walking the Earth (fame). The perfect place for him was New York. Say all you want about them not being close to a championship, but any team that added LeBron was going to be a contender. Plus, add in his ability to draw in people to want to play with him and the lure of NYC...it would have only been a short matter of time before LBJ was leading the Knicks to championship contention. And believe it or not, whoever leads the Knicks to a title will be hailed as a God in NYC. The Knicks are a storied franchise but what do they have to show for it? No titles since 1972.

 

LeBron could have been the biggest star in the biggest city in the world, created a legacy for a team that while storied doesn't really have that signature player in its franchise history, and he could have won a title for a team that hasn't tasted victory in nearly 40 years. I honestly thought LBJ going to the Knicks was a no-brainer.

[Old Style]

LeBron was compared to Jordan while playing in Cleveland. That is a stupid argument against playing in Chicago.

[SouthSideRyan]

Should we reasonably expect Rose's defensive prowess to improve significantly in the coming years? Obviously we all hope Thibodeau will improve the defensive situation, but can any of our players really be shut-down defenders?

 

Rose has all the tools needed to be an elite defender. A lot of being good defensively comes from the desire and willingness to play it.

 

Noah's a strong defender but he'll struggle against the really big guys like Dwight Howard.

 

Yeah, Rose will probably wind up an above average defender when it's all said and done

[Guest]

There sure are a lot of people in this thread convinced that Rose and Noah are on their way to being one of the top guards in the game and an All-Star big man, respectively.

 

And there sure are a lot of people in this thread villifying LeBron for signing with a team with one of the top guards in the game and an All-Star big man.

[C.C.]

There sure are a lot of people in this thread convinced that Rose and Noah are on their way to being one of the top guards in the game and an All-Star big man, respectively.

 

And there sure are a lot of people in this thread villifying LeBron for signing with a team with one of the top guards in the game and an All-Star big man.

 

That's a terrible comparison.

[rawaction]

LeBron was compared to Jordan while playing in Cleveland. That is a stupid argument against playing in Chicago.

 

Everyone is compared to Jordan. But it gets magnified in Chicago. Sure Bulls fans would have loved LeBron, but he would have always taken a backseat to Jordan until he won his 7th title in a red and black uniform.

 

In Cleveland (or any other city for that matter), the comparison can be made with a caveat that LBJ is in a "different situation". That argument can't be made in LBJ is playing in Chicago.

[SouthSideRyan]

If Lebron came to Chicago and didn't win a title this year the meatball outrage would have been epic.

 

Guy probably doesn't even like Root beer

[Sammy Sofa]

LeBron was compared to Jordan while playing in Cleveland. That is a stupid argument against playing in Chicago.

 

Everyone is compared to Jordan. But it gets magnified in Chicago. Sure Bulls fans would have loved LeBron, but he would have always taken a backseat to Jordan until he won his 7th title in a red and black uniform.

 

No. If it was closer to the Jordan era and the Bulls hadn't sucked so much since he was gone and he was still some kind of presence with the team, OK, fine, but as it stands he's gone and it's been too long since the Bulls were legitimate contenders. Anyone here focusing on comparing him to Jordan moreso than is already done everywhere else is just trying way too damn hard.

[rawaction]

There sure are a lot of people in this thread convinced that Rose and Noah are on their way to being one of the top guards in the game and an All-Star big man, respectively.

 

And there sure are a lot of people in this thread villifying LeBron for signing with a team with one of the top guards in the game and an All-Star big man.

 

Not even close to the same. For the 110th time, Rose and Noah are developing players. Bosh and Wade are already elite players. Rose will never be as good as Wade is right now (possibly the top G) and Noah will never be as good as Bosh.

 

Nobody would villify LBJ if he went to play with other developing players or even other really good established players. But he went to play with 2 of the top 10 players in the game, and did so as a 2nd fiddle in a market where Wade has already starred.

[rawaction]

LeBron was compared to Jordan while playing in Cleveland. That is a stupid argument against playing in Chicago.

 

Everyone is compared to Jordan. But it gets magnified in Chicago. Sure Bulls fans would have loved LeBron, but he would have always taken a backseat to Jordan until he won his 7th title in a red and black uniform.

 

No. If it was closer to the Jordan era and the Bulls hadn't sucked so much since he was gone and he was still some kind of presence with the team, OK, fine, but as it stands he's gone and it's been too long since the Bulls were legitimate contenders. Anyone here focusing on comparing him to Jordan moreso than is already done everywhere else is just trying way too damn hard.

 

Well, you say tomato, I say tomato. The Bulls have sucked so much since Jordan has left and have not been legitimate contenders for so long, so I think that means they have nothing to hang onto but the 6 championships, and one or 2 championships would not even be enough for most Bulls fans.

[Guest]

So again, LeBron was supposed to go where his teammates would be good, just not too good. Otherwise people would talk about how the best player in basketball, who is the best player in basketball because he always has the ball in his hands, had become a second fiddle to someone not nearly as good as he is just because that guy was there first. What if LeBron had gotten Bosh or Wade to come to Cleveland? Would he still be the alpha dog or whatever nonsensical, arbitrary term we're putting on him then?

[Sammy Sofa]

So again, LeBron was supposed to go where his teammates would be good, just not too good. Otherwise people would talk about how the best player in basketball, who is the best player in basketball because he always has the ball in his hands, had become a second fiddle to someone not nearly as good as he is just because that guy was there first. What if LeBron had gotten Bosh or Wade to come to Cleveland? Would he still be the alpha dog or whatever nonsensical, arbitrary term we're putting on him then?

 

Clearly, yes. This isn't complicated at all. Nobody's dogging him for wanting to play with really good or great players. It's how he went about it and willfully chose the one situation where he'd be taking a backseat despite his talent and his role as a player to this point.

[Tracer Bullet]

So again, LeBron was supposed to go where his teammates would be good, just not too good. Otherwise people would talk about how the best player in basketball, who is the best player in basketball because he always has the ball in his hands, had become a second fiddle to someone not nearly as good as he is just because that guy was there first. What if LeBron had gotten Bosh or Wade to come to Cleveland? Would he still be the alpha dog or whatever nonsensical, arbitrary term we're putting on him then?

 

you really don't see the difference in going to Miami, where Wade is established as the Guy, and going to Chicago where there are some good/potentially great pieces in place but LeBron would be the leader of the team?

[CubColtPacer]

If LeBron, Wade, and Bosh had formed a team out in the middle of nowhere that none of them were connected to before, does that still make LeBron a villan? Or is it just the fact that he went to a city where Wade happened to be there already?

[rawaction]

So again, LeBron was supposed to go where his teammates would be good, just not too good.

 

Actually, yes.

 

What if LeBron had gotten Bosh or Wade to come to Cleveland? Would he still be the alpha dog or whatever nonsensical, arbitrary term we're putting on him then?

 

In my opinion, yes. Call it arbitrary or what you want. But it is what it is. Everything in sports is arbitrary. Jordan was Chi, Bird was Bos, Kobe is LA, DWade was/is Miami, Cleveland was Lebron's city.

 

Point is, LeBron had the potential to go down as the best player who ever lived, presumably taking that arbitrary title from Jordan. If he got the talent to come to Cleveland, then I would give him all the props once he earned them because that would still be "his" team.....because he was the man that was synonymous with basketball in Cleveland. Miami is Wade's team. He carried them to their only championship. It's like ARod and Jeter. The Yankees are Jeter's team because he's won titles as the captain and star of the team. Arod was a far better player when he got there, but is still clearly 2nd fiddle to Jeter when it comes to popularity in NYC....and that shouldn't be the case with the best in the game.

[rawaction]

If LeBron, Wade, and Bosh had formed a team out in the middle of nowhere that none of them were connected to before, does that still make LeBron a villan? Or is it just the fact that he went to a city where Wade happened to be there already?

 

If they were in a 3rd party city, yes...it would be completely different. If he was 30, not 25 and wanted to win it would be completely different. If Wade and Bosh were not top 10 players in the league it would be different.

[Flames24Rulz]

Again, this wouldn't be as bad if he never claimed that he was the "Chosen One" or "King James." All along, his goals were to become the richest athlete ever and to be a more renowned athlete than Michael Jordan. I have a hard time believing that he'll become more renowned than Dwyane Wade now, let alone Michael Jordan.

 

The SI cover tells it all. If LeBron is willing to take a back seat, more power to him. He's contradicting himself if he actually does take a back seat. What happens if the Heat don't win this year? The pressure that's going to be on those guys will be enormous. When the pressure's on LeBron, we've seen what he's done the last few years. Of course I'm hoping they fail enormously, but there's no way that this thing is going to be as successful as they're all making it out to be.

[CubColtPacer]

If LeBron, Wade, and Bosh had formed a team out in the middle of nowhere that none of them were connected to before, does that still make LeBron a villan? Or is it just the fact that he went to a city where Wade happened to be there already?

 

If they were in a 3rd party city, yes...it would be completely different. If he was 30, not 25 and wanted to win it would be completely different. If Wade and Bosh were not top 10 players in the league it would be different.

 

So basically LeBron is a villain for not being arrogant enough to not want all the credit by being the undisputed leader. It's not like him, Wade, and Bosh are going to change what they do on the basketball court just because they are in Miami rather than some other city. It's only who the public gives credit to that will change.

 

So LeBron's legacy is diminished, but do we really want individual players making decisions about what will be best for their legacy?

[rawaction]

If LeBron, Wade, and Bosh had formed a team out in the middle of nowhere that none of them were connected to before, does that still make LeBron a villan? Or is it just the fact that he went to a city where Wade happened to be there already?

 

If they were in a 3rd party city, yes...it would be completely different. If he was 30, not 25 and wanted to win it would be completely different. If Wade and Bosh were not top 10 players in the league it would be different.

 

So basically LeBron is a villain for not being arrogant enough to not want all the credit by being the undisputed leader. It's not like him, Wade, and Bosh are going to change what they do on the basketball court just because they are in Miami rather than some other city. It's only who the public gives credit to that will change.

 

So LeBron's legacy is diminished, but do we really want individual players making decisions about what will be best for their legacy?

 

Who cares about individual players? LeBron is obviously not the typical individual player. That's why were aren't talking about why David Lee went to Golden St or that Rudy Gay stayed in Memphis. It's why we wouldn't even be talking about Wade going to wherever if he would have left Miami.

 

LeBron is the only player in the league at this moment who has a potential legacy that is worth even caring about. Who cares how everyone else made their decision? LeBron had every right to make a decision based on his legacy....and chose not to take a chance.

 

Bad analogy, but it's like in Bruce Almighty if Jim Carrey was given the chance to take all of Gods powers and he was like, "Naw, give the power to Evan. I'd rather be God's best friend than the man himself". Sure, the responsibility is tough and scary to have to take on, but you are a punk if you don't take it and have the capability of pulling it off....especially when you are supposed to be the "Chosen One, King James".

[SouthSideRyan]

You're right, that is a bad analogy