Jump to content
Join us for our weekly Cubs livestream, click here! ×
North Side Baseball

Bulls Offseason Thread

Ding Dong Johnson

By Ding Dong Johnson,
in Other Sports

 Share
  • Replies 5.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

rawaction Chicago Cubs

rawaction

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

 

And honestly, how else should one respond to the thought that Scottie Pippen was only good because St. Michael made it so?

 

By not reading into things that weren't stated? I never said Pippen wasn't good. But would he have been an elite player without Jordan on his team?

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1994.html

 

Was 1994 before or after Pippen had already played with Jordan? I wasn't saying Pippen wouldn't have been elite, but 1994 doesn't prove that side wrong because he had already been with Jordan before that season.

SouthSideRyan MVP

SouthSideRyan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Well if those are the parameters then you're asking for answers that are impossible to prove. It's not like Pippen was unheralded coming out of college. He was the 5th overall pick in '87 coming out of Central Arkansas.
Derwood GOAT

Derwood

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
This all seems to be a pretty bad indictment of Cleveland. LeBron is the best player in the league, yet the Cavs couldn't get anyone to play with him. If you're LeBron and the best your team can do for you is a broken Shaq and a fifty year old Antawn Jamison, wouldn't you leave too?
Guest

Guest

Guests
Posted
Posted
This all seems to be a pretty bad indictment of Cleveland. LeBron is the best player in the league, yet the Cavs couldn't get anyone to play with him. If you're LeBron and the best your team can do for you is a broken Shaq and a fifty year old Antawn Jamison, wouldn't you leave too?

 

LeBron had significant input on all those transactions. And he also hamstrung the team by taking shorter contracts himself.

rawaction Chicago Cubs

rawaction

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Well if those are the parameters then you're asking for answers that are impossible to prove. It's not like Pippen was unheralded coming out of college. He was the 5th overall pick in '87 coming out of Central Arkansas.

 

I never claimed it was possible to prove. Nobody knows what Pippen would have been like if Jordan didn't exist, or if Pippen played in Seattle. Kinda sucks for Scottie.

wolf stansson Knoxville Smokies

wolf stansson

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Well if those are the parameters then you're asking for answers that are impossible to prove. It's not like Pippen was unheralded coming out of college. He was the 5th overall pick in '87 coming out of Central Arkansas.

 

I never claimed it was possible to prove. Nobody knows what Pippen would have been like if Jordan didn't exist, or if Pippen played in Seattle. Kinda sucks for Scottie.

How does it suck for Scottie? He won 6 titles. He's a legend. I don't think he'd trade that in to be Jason Kidd or Dirk Nowitski.

Soul MVP

Soul

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Well if those are the parameters then you're asking for answers that are impossible to prove. It's not like Pippen was unheralded coming out of college. He was the 5th overall pick in '87 coming out of Central Arkansas.

 

I never claimed it was possible to prove. Nobody knows what Pippen would have been like if Jordan didn't exist, or if Pippen played in Seattle. Kinda sucks for Scottie.

How does it suck for Scottie? He won 6 titles. He's a legend. I don't think he'd trade that in to be Jason Kidd or Dirk Nowitski.

 

Yea, I don't care if I can't exactly quantify a hypothetical Jordan-less career for Scottie.

 

He was a great Bull. He's a legend. That's all that matters to me.

SouthSideRyan MVP

SouthSideRyan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I guess I just don't see where the belief comes from that Jordan not only made him better while playing alongside him, but also when he wasn't there. It makes a lot of sense considering the reliance on teammates in basketball (on both ends) to say one player can improve another one by being on the court with him. Unless you think Jordan was coaching guys on the side, I don't quite get how Jordan's effect was long-lasting when Pippen wasn't able to be freed up by guys sagging on Jordan. Seems you're severely underselling Jackson/Tex/whoever for Pippen's development.
SouthSideRyan MVP

SouthSideRyan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Well if those are the parameters then you're asking for answers that are impossible to prove. It's not like Pippen was unheralded coming out of college. He was the 5th overall pick in '87 coming out of Central Arkansas.

 

I never claimed it was possible to prove. Nobody knows what Pippen would have been like if Jordan didn't exist, or if Pippen played in Seattle. Kinda sucks for Scottie.

How does it suck for Scottie? He won 6 titles. He's a legend. I don't think he'd trade that in to be Jason Kidd or Dirk Nowitski.

 

I could see a certain type of person (I have no idea if Pippen is that type)having some resentment at being forever viewed as Michael's #2. It almost comes full circle with the argument on Lebron, dealing with legacies and how you're viewed in the historical sense. With the ego of most professional athletes, it makes sense that a guy in Pippen's situation could look back and wonder if he could've been Jordan.

SpongeWorthy Iowa Cubs

SpongeWorthy

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

It's more about demonstrating/teaching someone how to be a professional. Jordan came from a very structured, resource-rich college program while Pippen was playing in some backwoods, rural program with no real coaching or development structure.

 

Obviously the freakishly long arms and athleticism helps too. But he was definitely raw.

rawaction Chicago Cubs

rawaction

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I guess I just don't see where the belief comes from that Jordan not only made him better while playing alongside him, but also when he wasn't there. It makes a lot of sense considering the reliance on teammates in basketball (on both ends) to say one player can improve another one by being on the court with him. Unless you think Jordan was coaching guys on the side, I don't quite get how Jordan's effect was long-lasting when Pippen wasn't able to be freed up by guys sagging on Jordan. Seems you're severely underselling Jackson/Tex/whoever for Pippen's development.

 

Never said it was my opinion.

SouthSideRyan MVP

SouthSideRyan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
It's more about demonstrating/teaching someone how to be a professional. Jordan came from a very structured, resource-rich college program while Pippen was playing in some backwoods, rural program with no real coaching or development structure.

 

Obviously the freakishly long arms and athleticism helps too. But he was definitely raw.

 

I get that, but I'm more inclined to give credit to the actual coaching staff over Jordan.

hawkeyecub ACL Cubs

hawkeyecub

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Seems like the last five pages is all about Lebron.

 

He isn't on the Bulls.

 

Can we split this to leave it to Bulls stuff?

 

Does it really matter before the season begins? It's much easier to have discussion in one thread just like the Blackhawks/NHL.

illiniguy Knoxville Smokies

illiniguy

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I'm just glad that this means ugly ass Paul Pierce is done winning titles and can go back to using his face as knife target practice again.
mul21 Myrtle Beach Pelicans

mul21

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
It's more about demonstrating/teaching someone how to be a professional. Jordan came from a very structured, resource-rich college program while Pippen was playing in some backwoods, rural program with no real coaching or development structure.

 

Obviously the freakishly long arms and athleticism helps too. But he was definitely raw.

 

I get that, but I'm more inclined to give credit to the actual coaching staff over Jordan.

 

I think there's a lot to be said about competition every day in practice. Jordan destroyed other guys who couldn't handle it (Rodney McCrae), but Pippen took on the challenge and became a great player. Was Jordan solely responsible? Absolutely not, but providing daily competition certainly played a big part in it. Pippen had the physical tools and the mental toughness to become what he did, but without the daily challenge from both Jordan and the coaching staff, he probably doesn't reach his potential. It's the same reason a guy who's drafted from a small town in Idaho takes longer and may not ever develop into a great baseball player, he didn't face high level competition early on and may suffer long term from that.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
The North Side Baseball Caretaker Fund
The North Side Baseball Caretaker Fund

You all care about this site. The next step is caring for it. We’re asking you to caretake this site so it can remain the premier Cubs community on the internet. Included with caretaking is ad-free browsing of North Side Baseball.

Become a Caretaker

  • Member Statistics

    6,799
    Total Members
    13,056
    Most Online
    Squirrely Worley
    Newest Member
    Squirrely Worley
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...