Fire Lou Piniella

[apete6]

Moving Soriano isn't essential to fixing this team, but I'm not exactly sure how he would have "negative value" to another team if the Cubs were picking up a good chunk of his salary.

B/c he's less than replacement level value right now or close to it.

 

Last year he was replacement level at a 0.0 WAR but this year he's already been worth 1.7 WAR, so quite a bit above replacement level.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=847&position=2B/OF#value

[Guest]

Yeah, Soriano is on pace to actually have earned his contract through the first 4 years. Which is both incredible considering how he's done it, and sad since he still has so many more years left, and the perpetually negative perception of his deal(compared to other horrible deals) makes it impossible to capitalize on.

[SouthSideRyan]

and I don't see them moving Soriano no matter what. He's got so much negative value teams would have a hard time taking him and paying the minimum.

 

Hilarious

[Keener98]

Do you people clamoring for Tyler Colvin understand hes striking out 1 in every 3 times at bat? Project that over a course of a season, and then tell me you think Colvin has been treated unfairly and should play more.

 

Im not saying K's are that bad, but when hes not a walk machine or a power machine like Dunn, 1 out of every 3 times at bat is not good.

 

For a rookie playing the yo-yo game, that K ratio isn't too surprising nor is it that bad. Hard to improve timing and pitch recongition given his playing schedule.

 

It's not that he's being treated unfairly (although I think he should be at Iowa if he's not going to start), it's that this teams needs to go in a rebuilding direction and it would answer some serious questions whether or not to find out if he can be a ML regular in the OF.

 

Contact issues and plate discipline have always been Colvins problems, blaming his K rate on his playing schedule is a pretty weak excuse.

[apete6]

Yeah, Soriano is on pace to actually have earned his contract through the first 4 years. Which is both incredible considering how he's done it, and sad since he still has so many more years left, and the perpetually negative perception of his deal(compared to other horrible deals) makes it impossible to capitalize on.

 

Also incredible stat wizardry has shown that Randy Wells has been the Cubs best pitcher based on WAR because of a decent xFIP and an awful BABIP. Now, does that mean he can continue being in the rotation with another bad start? No, but he's really getting nickel and dimed to death. Maybe he needs to start throwing more balls and mixing up his pitches a bit better?

[Sammy Sofa]

Stat wizardry?

[Guest]

Moving Soriano isn't essential to fixing this team, but I'm not exactly sure how he would have "negative value" to another team if the Cubs were picking up a good chunk of his salary.

B/c he's less than replacement level value right now or close to it.

 

Last year he was replacement level at a 0.0 WAR but this year he's already been worth 1.7 WAR, so quite a bit above replacement level.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=847&position=2B/OF#value

I'm betting by the end of this year he'll be in negative territory. Soriano's has not played up to his contract since 2007.

[apete6]

Moving Soriano isn't essential to fixing this team, but I'm not exactly sure how he would have "negative value" to another team if the Cubs were picking up a good chunk of his salary.

B/c he's less than replacement level value right now or close to it.

 

Last year he was replacement level at a 0.0 WAR but this year he's already been worth 1.7 WAR, so quite a bit above replacement level.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=847&position=2B/OF#value

I'm betting by the end of this year he'll be in negative territory. Soriano's has not played up to his contract since 2007.

 

Did you even click the link? He was very good in 2008 as well.

[Sammy Sofa]

Moving Soriano isn't essential to fixing this team, but I'm not exactly sure how he would have "negative value" to another team if the Cubs were picking up a good chunk of his salary.

B/c he's less than replacement level value right now or close to it.

 

Last year he was replacement level at a 0.0 WAR but this year he's already been worth 1.7 WAR, so quite a bit above replacement level.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=847&position=2B/OF#value

I'm betting by the end of this year he'll be in negative territory. Soriano's has not played up to his contract since 2007.

 

Did 2008 not happen?

[Guest]

Moving Soriano isn't essential to fixing this team, but I'm not exactly sure how he would have "negative value" to another team if the Cubs were picking up a good chunk of his salary.

B/c he's less than replacement level value right now or close to it.

 

Last year he was replacement level at a 0.0 WAR but this year he's already been worth 1.7 WAR, so quite a bit above replacement level.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=847&position=2B/OF#value

I'm betting by the end of this year he'll be in negative territory. Soriano's has not played up to his contract since 2007.

 

Did 2008 not happen?

No it happend, I disagree with the analysis of the data.

[abuck1220]

i mean if you ignore 2007, 2008 and what he's done so far in 2010, soriano has been terrible as a cub.

[SouthSideRyan]

Moving Soriano isn't essential to fixing this team, but I'm not exactly sure how he would have "negative value" to another team if the Cubs were picking up a good chunk of his salary.

B/c he's less than replacement level value right now or close to it.

 

Last year he was replacement level at a 0.0 WAR but this year he's already been worth 1.7 WAR, so quite a bit above replacement level.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=847&position=2B/OF#value

I'm betting by the end of this year he'll be in negative territory.

 

Based on what? You think his performance the rest of this season is going to be far worse than his performance on 1 leg last year?

[Sammy Sofa]

No it happend, I disagree with the analysis of the data.

 

Why? Outside of the first month, he never had a month with an OPS below .835, and he's at .838 for his career. Outside of missing time due to injury he was very good in 2008 and a critical part of that team's success.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yeah, Soriano is on pace to actually have earned his contract through the first 4 years. Which is both incredible considering how he's done it, and sad since he still has so many more years left, and the perpetually negative perception of his deal(compared to other horrible deals) makes it impossible to capitalize on.

 

It's only because he made less in the first couple years.

 

 

Don't pay attention to that fangraphs nonsense, their $ values are terribly skewed.

[jersey cubs fan]

No it happend, I disagree with the analysis of the data.

 

Why? Outside of the first month, he never had a month with an OPS below .835, and he's at .838 for his career. Outside of missing time due to injury he was very good in 2008 and a critical part of that team's success.

 

A SLG heavy OPS that isn't even all that impressive of an OPS to begin with.

[Sammy Sofa]

Yeah, Soriano is on pace to actually have earned his contract through the first 4 years. Which is both incredible considering how he's done it, and sad since he still has so many more years left, and the perpetually negative perception of his deal(compared to other horrible deals) makes it impossible to capitalize on.

 

It's only because he made less in the first couple years.

 

 

Don't pay attention to that fangraphs nonsense, their $ values are terribly skewed.

 

Agreed, but it's still ridiculous to say that he has almost negative value right now even if the Cubs picked up a good chunk of his contract.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yeah, Soriano is on pace to actually have earned his contract through the first 4 years. Which is both incredible considering how he's done it, and sad since he still has so many more years left, and the perpetually negative perception of his deal(compared to other horrible deals) makes it impossible to capitalize on.

 

It's only because he made less in the first couple years.

 

 

Don't pay attention to that fangraphs nonsense, their $ values are terribly skewed.

 

Agreed, but it's still ridiculous to say that he has almost negative value right now even if the Cubs picked up a good chunk of his contract.

 

Absolutely.

[Guest]

Yeah, Soriano is on pace to actually have earned his contract through the first 4 years. Which is both incredible considering how he's done it, and sad since he still has so many more years left, and the perpetually negative perception of his deal(compared to other horrible deals) makes it impossible to capitalize on.

 

It's only because he made less in the first couple years.

 

 

Don't pay attention to that fangraphs nonsense, their $ values are terribly skewed.

 

 

I was going off average annual value.

 

And the fangraphs numbers are skewed if you don't understand what they are trying to say.

[jersey cubs fan]

Yeah, Soriano is on pace to actually have earned his contract through the first 4 years. Which is both incredible considering how he's done it, and sad since he still has so many more years left, and the perpetually negative perception of his deal(compared to other horrible deals) makes it impossible to capitalize on.

 

It's only because he made less in the first couple years.

 

 

Don't pay attention to that fangraphs nonsense, their $ values are terribly skewed.

 

 

I was going off average annual value.

 

And the fangraphs numbers are skewed if you don't understand what they are trying to say.

 

I understand what they are trying to say and it's dumb.

[Sammy Sofa]

No it happend, I disagree with the analysis of the data.

 

Why? Outside of the first month, he never had a month with an OPS below .835, and he's at .838 for his career. Outside of missing time due to injury he was very good in 2008 and a critical part of that team's success.

 

A SLG heavy OPS that isn't even all that impressive of an OPS to begin with.

 

It's still valuable, and it's not like he was dragging ass with the OBP most of that season. Of course it would be ideal if he kept it above .350, but hey, he can still be very useful even if he isn't.

[Tracer Bullet]

Yeah, Soriano is on pace to actually have earned his contract through the first 4 years. Which is both incredible considering how he's done it, and sad since he still has so many more years left, and the perpetually negative perception of his deal(compared to other horrible deals) makes it impossible to capitalize on.

 

It's only because he made less in the first couple years.

 

 

Don't pay attention to that fangraphs nonsense, their $ values are terribly skewed.

 

Agreed, but it's still ridiculous to say that he has almost negative value right now even if the Cubs picked up a good chunk of his contract.

 

but how much? I mean, obviously he's worth more than league minimum going forward. But how much of his contract would the Cubs have to pick up for another team to want him through the end of his contract?

[Guest]

Yeah, Soriano is on pace to actually have earned his contract through the first 4 years. Which is both incredible considering how he's done it, and sad since he still has so many more years left, and the perpetually negative perception of his deal(compared to other horrible deals) makes it impossible to capitalize on.

 

It's only because he made less in the first couple years.

 

 

Don't pay attention to that fangraphs nonsense, their $ values are terribly skewed.

 

Agreed, but it's still ridiculous to say that he has almost negative value right now even if the Cubs picked up a good chunk of his contract.

 

but how much? I mean, obviously he's worth more than league minimum going forward. But how much of his contract would the Cubs have to pick up for another team to want him through the end of his contract?

That's exactly my point. Even if you agree that those ridiculous fangraph dollar numbers are remotely meaningful (which they aren't), he's at replacement level right now just think where he will be in two years, let alone four.

[Sammy Sofa]

Yeah, Soriano is on pace to actually have earned his contract through the first 4 years. Which is both incredible considering how he's done it, and sad since he still has so many more years left, and the perpetually negative perception of his deal(compared to other horrible deals) makes it impossible to capitalize on.

 

It's only because he made less in the first couple years.

 

 

Don't pay attention to that fangraphs nonsense, their $ values are terribly skewed.

 

Agreed, but it's still ridiculous to say that he has almost negative value right now even if the Cubs picked up a good chunk of his contract.

 

but how much? I mean, obviously he's worth more than league minimum going forward. But how much of his contract would the Cubs have to pick up for another team to want him through the end of his contract?

 

I don't know. Probably at least half if they wanted to get a decent return. I think they could move him without paying that much, but then you would actually be getting a crappy return. Personally, I really don't think trading Soriano needs to be done or needs to be any kind of priority. They can eat the money as he gets older and crappier so long as they don't compound it with other bad contracts. This off season and the following are going to be critical to see if this team is actually moving in a new direction.

[Guest]

That's exactly my point. Even if you agree that those ridiculous fangraph dollar numbers are remotely meaningful (which they aren't), he's at replacement level right now just think where he will be in two years, let alone four.

 

I don't think you're understanding "replacement level" correctly.

[Guest]

but how much? I mean, obviously he's worth more than league minimum going forward. But how much of his contract would the Cubs have to pick up for another team to want him through the end of his contract?

That's exactly my point. Even if you agree that those ridiculous fangraph dollar numbers are remotely meaningful (which they aren't), he's at replacement level right now just think where he will be in two years, let alone four.

 

I don't think you're understanding "replacement level" correctly.

I understand it correclty. Last year he was at 0.0. I don't give a [expletive] where he's at right now. He plays terrible defense and he's back to hacking at balls and he's on the wrong side of 30. He's not getting better. Looking at averages is stupid for prediction purposes when his performance is trending in the wrong direction.

 

With his production it would not be wise for any team to take him unless they want replacement level performance or worse for the next four years. It doesn't matter what the Cubs pay.

 

Just b/c some isn't of the same opinion as you doesn't mean they don't understand something. That's your habit and it's just as bad as a personal attack.