College Basketball 2010-11

[Magnetic Curses]

Snood's right, if he doesn't get real coaching like he would at Kansas, he may be nothing more than a fringe starter type at the NBA level. You know, like Mario Chalmers, Brandon Rush, or Xavier Henry. In fact, if he goes somewhere with truly bad coach, he may become an NBA nobody. You know, like Frank Williams, or Sherron Collins.

 

if you're not going to credit deron williams to self, then you have to credit him to weber. just for future reference.

[da bears]

you gotta admit, 40 minutes of hell is the biggest gimmick college basketball has to offer.

perhaps, but just because a player plays it in college doesnt mean he will be a worse pro because of it.

[snoodmonger]

Snood's right, if he doesn't get real coaching like he would at Kansas, he may be nothing more than a fringe starter type at the NBA level. You know, like Mario Chalmers, Brandon Rush, or Xavier Henry. In fact, if he goes somewhere with truly bad coach, he may become an NBA nobody. You know, like Frank Williams, or Sherron Collins.

 

 

Or he could be...searching NBA database for Missouri/Anderson players....

 

 

 

...still searching...

 

 

 

 

 

...c'mon, there's gotta be someone...

 

 

 

 

...wtf, really?....

 

 

 

 

 

...maybe i'll try "Mizzou" instead of Missouri...

 

 

 

 

 

...search must be broken...

 

 

 

 

 

 

A-ha! MAYBE HE CAN BE DEMARRE CARROLL!

[Magnetic Curses]

you gotta admit, 40 minutes of hell is the biggest gimmick college basketball has to offer.

perhaps, but just because a player plays it in college doesnt mean he will be a worse pro because of it.

 

i never said that, though.

[snoodmonger]

ben mclemore's mom is being a [expletive] and won't let him go to KU. So now he'll wait till the spring. A good, loving mother doing the best thing for her kid...and probably reducing his shot at the NBA by 40%.

how do you figure his shot at the nba dropping? just curious.

 

Because Mike Anderson coaches a system, not players. And it's a system that is not used in the NBA.

 

Self coaches defense first (real defense, not trap and hack), pick and roll, and high/low. All of which will have him better prepared to succeed in the NBA than running around with your hair on fire for 40 minutes.

 

In the end, Ben will likely get to the NBA based on his own physical attributes. But how well he's prepared and how long he stays will be directly related to how he's coached in college. Just my opinion.

pretty ignorant comment. what players exactly has bill self done such a great job with in the nba with his defense first philosophies? and what players has mike anderson coached that are worse off for playing for him? if youre good enough, the nba will take you, regardless of what system you play in.

 

Well, Cole Aldrich got drafted because of it. It certainly wasn't because he's Tim Duncan on offense. Remains to be seen if he'll be effective in the NBA.

 

You can bag on Mario Chalmers all you want, but he's playing out of position in the NBA (dude's not a PG. Doesn't have the skill set.) But he's stayed largely because of defense. (Top 5 in steals in 08-09, top 30 in steals in 09-10)

 

BRush's D is legit. His offense has been a disappointment. And he smokes too much reefer.

 

 

as for the rest of Self's KU guys:

 

Julian Wright has been a massive bust.

 

X Henry--too early. Not playing.

 

D Arthur--easing back in after missing a season. Haven't seen him play this year.

 

Sherron Collins--for his size, it's an accomplishment to even get to the NBA.

 

Darnell Jackson--with Self/Danny Manning's help, made himself into an NBA player. Nobody thought he'd get there. Will get more PT after Demarcus Cousins stabs a ref.

[Guest]

Anderson hasn't had that quality of player to work with at this point in his career, excepting Pressey, who has all of 2 collegiate games. And besides, the burden of proof is on the guy claiming that Kansas somehow offers superior NBA preparation. Since all of Self's guards have been marginal NBA guys at best, it kinda undermines the "oh no he'll be ruined if he doesn't come to KU" rhetoric.

[Magnetic Curses]

i will say this though, of all of the great collegiate players nolan richardson had at arkansas, only joe johnson and a handful of nba career role-players had more than a chocolate milk and a taint massage in the league.

 

hell, scotty thurman was 6-7 and could shoot, couldn't even get drafted after hitting a shot over grant hill to win the national title. i don't even know if he played in the cba nor do i care.

[snoodmonger]

Anderson hasn't had that quality of player to work with at this point in his career, excepting Pressey, who has all of 2 collegiate games. And besides, the burden of proof is on the guy claiming that Kansas somehow offers superior NBA preparation. Since all of Self's guards have been marginal NBA guys at best, it kinda undermines the "oh no he'll be ruined if he doesn't come to KU" rhetoric.

 

You can write off Rush and Henry, but you'd be jumping the gun. Neither will be stars, but both will have fine careers. better than anyone Mike Anderson has produced. There's no evidence to suggest playing for Mike Anderson will enhance your ability to even get to the NBA.

 

Phil Pressey should be an interesting experiment. It'll be interesting to see if he gets there.

[SouthSideRyan]

Wait, can we count Tony Mitchell for Mizzou?

[SouthSideRyan]

Wait, can we count Tony Mitchell for Mizzou?

 

I mean since we're counting all the KU players that should be ineligible...

[illiniguy]

Anderson hasn't had that quality of player to work with at this point in his career, excepting Pressey, who has all of 2 collegiate games. And besides, the burden of proof is on the guy claiming that Kansas somehow offers superior NBA preparation. Since all of Self's guards have been marginal NBA guys at best, it kinda undermines the "oh no he'll be ruined if he doesn't come to KU" rhetoric.

 

You can write off Rush and Henry, but you'd be jumping the gun. Neither will be stars, but both will have fine careers. better than anyone Mike Anderson has produced. There's no evidence to suggest playing for Mike Anderson will enhance your ability to even get to the NBA.

 

Phil Pressey should be an interesting experiment. It'll be interesting to see if he gets there.

No one should be touting Self's ability to get the most of his kids in the pros. He has Darnell Jackson to hang his hat on and that's it. I would rather have Weber's track record with DWill and Luther.

[Bruno7481]

IU with 2 new 2013 commits today.

 

Devin Davis and Collin Hartman.

 

Apparently Yogi Ferrell is announcing Wednesday. Most seem to think it will be IU.

 

Harris with with Hartman today in IU gear, but thankfully I don't have to worry about him going to IU, :)

 

IU still has a way to go, but it keeps looking better.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Bruno7481

[snoodmonger]

Anderson hasn't had that quality of player to work with at this point in his career, excepting Pressey, who has all of 2 collegiate games. And besides, the burden of proof is on the guy claiming that Kansas somehow offers superior NBA preparation. Since all of Self's guards have been marginal NBA guys at best, it kinda undermines the "oh no he'll be ruined if he doesn't come to KU" rhetoric.

 

You can write off Rush and Henry, but you'd be jumping the gun. Neither will be stars, but both will have fine careers. better than anyone Mike Anderson has produced. There's no evidence to suggest playing for Mike Anderson will enhance your ability to even get to the NBA.

 

Phil Pressey should be an interesting experiment. It'll be interesting to see if he gets there.

No one should be touting Self's ability to get the most of his kids in the pros. He has Darnell Jackson to hang his hat on and that's it. I would rather have Weber's track record with DWill and Luther.

 

 

Cole Aldrich was not NBA material coming out of HS. Neither was Sasha Kaun, and he got drafted. We'll see if Sherron sticks, but it's saying something getting someone his size on an NBA roster. If you haven't seen a ton of growth in the Morris twins, you're kidding yourself. Absolutely no one would have said Marcus was a possible All-American and NBA draft pick coming out of HS.

 

I'll admit that Arthur, Rush, Henry, and Wright were going to the NBA regardless of who coached them. The debate would be, wold another coach have gotten them more ready? I'm sure you'll say no because it burns you to say anything good about Self. I would say yes, with the exception of Wright. I'm sure all would be in the NBA HOF by now if they'd played under MIke Anderson or Weber though.

 

Dwilliams and Head played for Self, too. So he gets an assist on those two. You want one to brag about for Weber and Weber alone, go with DMac. He's turned into a big-time player under BW.

[imb]

missouri and kansas do not recruit even remotely the same caliber of players. kind of pointless to debate professional track records.

[snoodmonger]

Barnes and UNC struggling again.

 

Barnes 4/12 for 11 points. UNC down 5 with 2 minutes left.

[illiniguy]

Anderson hasn't had that quality of player to work with at this point in his career, excepting Pressey, who has all of 2 collegiate games. And besides, the burden of proof is on the guy claiming that Kansas somehow offers superior NBA preparation. Since all of Self's guards have been marginal NBA guys at best, it kinda undermines the "oh no he'll be ruined if he doesn't come to KU" rhetoric.

 

You can write off Rush and Henry, but you'd be jumping the gun. Neither will be stars, but both will have fine careers. better than anyone Mike Anderson has produced. There's no evidence to suggest playing for Mike Anderson will enhance your ability to even get to the NBA.

 

Phil Pressey should be an interesting experiment. It'll be interesting to see if he gets there.

No one should be touting Self's ability to get the most of his kids in the pros. He has Darnell Jackson to hang his hat on and that's it. I would rather have Weber's track record with DWill and Luther.

 

 

Cole Aldrich was not NBA material coming out of HS. Neither was Sasha Kaun, and he got drafted. We'll see if Sherron sticks, but it's saying something getting someone his size on an NBA roster. If you haven't seen a ton of growth in the Morris twins, you're kidding yourself. Absolutely no one would have said Marcus was a possible All-American and NBA draft pick coming out of HS.

 

I'll admit that Arthur, Rush, Henry, and Wright were going to the NBA regardless of who coached them. The debate would be, wold another coach have gotten them more ready? I'm sure you'll say no because it burns you to say anything good about Self. I would say yes, with the exception of Wright. I'm sure all would be in the NBA HOF by now if they'd played under MIke Anderson or Weber though.

 

Dwilliams and Head played for Self, too. So he gets an assist on those two. You want one to brag about for Weber and Weber alone, go with DMac. He's turned into a big-time player under BW.

Self does really well with kids he can develop. The kids that are elite level talent coming in don't get any better under Bill and definately don't get the chance to shine like they do in other places. Self coached Deron for a year. In that year Deron shot 30 percent from the free throw line, I am not giving him credit for DWill. Just like I am not gonna punish Self for having Aaron Miles and Wayne Simien.

 

I realize how big time a player DMac is, I prefer him to Collins actually. I just don't think Collins got any better in college. Maybe I'm wrong, but he seemd to me to have been the same player all 4 years.

[snoodmonger]

Anderson hasn't had that quality of player to work with at this point in his career, excepting Pressey, who has all of 2 collegiate games. And besides, the burden of proof is on the guy claiming that Kansas somehow offers superior NBA preparation. Since all of Self's guards have been marginal NBA guys at best, it kinda undermines the "oh no he'll be ruined if he doesn't come to KU" rhetoric.

 

You can write off Rush and Henry, but you'd be jumping the gun. Neither will be stars, but both will have fine careers. better than anyone Mike Anderson has produced. There's no evidence to suggest playing for Mike Anderson will enhance your ability to even get to the NBA.

 

Phil Pressey should be an interesting experiment. It'll be interesting to see if he gets there.

No one should be touting Self's ability to get the most of his kids in the pros. He has Darnell Jackson to hang his hat on and that's it. I would rather have Weber's track record with DWill and Luther.

 

 

Cole Aldrich was not NBA material coming out of HS. Neither was Sasha Kaun, and he got drafted. We'll see if Sherron sticks, but it's saying something getting someone his size on an NBA roster. If you haven't seen a ton of growth in the Morris twins, you're kidding yourself. Absolutely no one would have said Marcus was a possible All-American and NBA draft pick coming out of HS.

 

I'll admit that Arthur, Rush, Henry, and Wright were going to the NBA regardless of who coached them. The debate would be, wold another coach have gotten them more ready? I'm sure you'll say no because it burns you to say anything good about Self. I would say yes, with the exception of Wright. I'm sure all would be in the NBA HOF by now if they'd played under MIke Anderson or Weber though.

 

Dwilliams and Head played for Self, too. So he gets an assist on those two. You want one to brag about for Weber and Weber alone, go with DMac. He's turned into a big-time player under BW.

Self does really well with kids he can develop. The kids that are elite level talent coming in don't get any better under Bill and definately don't get the chance to shine like they do in other places. Self coached Deron for a year. In that year Deron shot 30 percent from the free throw line, I am not giving him credit for DWill. Just like I am not gonna punish Self for having Aaron Miles and Wayne Simien.

 

well, i don't deny part of your point. Star freshman players can definitely get a chance to shine more at other schools (UK comes to mind) A lot of that is due to his philosophy. It's definitely team oriented. And he gets married to upperclassmen and defensive players at the expense of some younger, higher-rated talent. I think he tried to change that somewhat last year with X Henry.

 

I still think you're wrong about elite talent not getting better, but we'll agree to disagree.

 

As for DWill, free throws seems like kind of a random stat to make your case on. He had a good freshman year under Self.

 

Named All-Freshman Team by CollegeInsider.com

Second on the team and ranked third in the Big Ten in assists, averaging 4.53 per game

Led the league in assists in conference play with 77 (4.81 apg), edging out teammate Dee Brown by one assist

Ranked second in the Big Ten behind Brown in assist/turnover ratio at +2.46

Second on the team with 46 steals, an average of 1.44 spg (ninth in Big Ten)

 

I totally agree that the majority of the development credit for Williams should go to Weber. He coached him for longer. But it's not like he was some bum who randomly got good under Weber. He was already a good player his Fr year and was a star in the making.

[illiniguy]

well, i don't deny part of your point. Star freshman players can definitely get a chance to shine more at other schools (UK comes to mind) A lot of that is due to his philosophy. It's definitely team oriented. And he gets married to upperclassmen and defensive players at the expense of some younger, higher-rated talent. I think he tried to change that somewhat last year with X Henry.

 

I still think you're wrong about elite talent not getting better, but we'll agree to disagree.

 

As for DWill, free throws seems like kind of a random stat to make your case on. He had a good freshman year under Self.

 

Named All-Freshman Team by CollegeInsider.com

Second on the team and ranked third in the Big Ten in assists, averaging 4.53 per game

Led the league in assists in conference play with 77 (4.81 apg), edging out teammate Dee Brown by one assist

Ranked second in the Big Ten behind Brown in assist/turnover ratio at +2.46

Second on the team with 46 steals, an average of 1.44 spg (ninth in Big Ten)

 

I totally agree that the majority of the development credit for Williams should go to Weber. He coached him for longer. But it's not like he was some bum who randomly got good under Weber. He was already a good player his Fr year and was a star in the making.

I know the free throw thing has always been what I remember about Deron from his frosh year. Not sure why, I guess cause it was such an odd stat for a player of his skill level. I hate Weber, but I gotta give him the credit for helping Deron develop.

 

As for the elite part. When Wright came to college everyone said needed to develop a jumper. Six years later he still does. When Rush was being recruited, and Illinois fans know this because we were his leader until our admissions office told Weber no way was a kid that went to a high school ran from someones van was getting in, everyone said he was a good shooter that guarded well and rebounded for his size. Needed to work on his handle and being able to create one on one. He still sucks at those things. I'm telling you Bill does better with the Cole's and Morris borther types.

[SeldomSeen]

IU with 2 new 2013 commits today.

 

Devin Davis and Collin Hartman.

 

Apparently Yogi Ferrell is announcing Wednesday. Most seem to think it will be IU.

 

Harris with with Hartman today in IU gear, but thankfully I don't have to worry about him going to IU, :)

 

IU still has a way to go, but it keeps looking better.

The word among some of the Indy kids is that Harris is considering moving up his time frame and yes, the buzz is about IU.

[illiniguy]

IU with 2 new 2013 commits today.

 

Devin Davis and Collin Hartman.

 

Apparently Yogi Ferrell is announcing Wednesday. Most seem to think it will be IU.

 

Harris with with Hartman today in IU gear, but thankfully I don't have to worry about him going to IU, :)

 

IU still has a way to go, but it keeps looking better.

The word among some of the Indy kids is that Harris is considering moving up his time frame and yes, the buzz is about IU.

Purdue cannot be liking this.

[Bruno7481]

It seems like IU is doing what Purdue did when they brought in the Hummel, Moore, and Johnson class while they were at the bottom of the Big10. Only difference is IU is spreading it out over multiple classes.

[abuck1220]

at least it wasn't a total waste of a weekend for isu sports.

 

isu is up 3 against creighton with 10 seconds left and their best FT shooter at the line for 2. of course, he misses them both. creighton player dribbles down the court and gets fouled on a 2 pt attempt with 3 seconds left. makes the first, misses the second, and of course creighton gets the rebound. creighton player is fouled on a shot with 1.6 left and of course makes both free throws to tie the game. then this...

 

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=819177185360&oid=49525610444&comments

 

appears well after the buzzer, but the game wasn't on tv, so no review. i'll take it.

[Butterscup1679666578]

ben mclemore's mom is being a [expletive] and won't let him go to KU. So now he'll wait till the spring. A good, loving mother doing the best thing for her kid...and probably reducing his shot at the NBA by 40%.

 

He's still going to KU. If he was going to be convinced to go to Mizzou it would've happened by now.

 

The only good thing about him waiting that long is that we'll hopefully get a commit from Otto Porter soon, and then when Mitchell is finally ruled completely ineligible we'll have another opening, so if somehow our 1% chance of getting McLemore actually happens we could have a solid two-person class.

[Sosa21MVP]

IU with 2 new 2013 commits today.

 

Devin Davis and Collin Hartman.

 

Apparently Yogi Ferrell is announcing Wednesday. Most seem to think it will be IU.

 

Harris with with Hartman today in IU gear, but thankfully I don't have to worry about him going to IU, :)

 

IU still has a way to go, but it keeps looking better.

The word among some of the Indy kids is that Harris is considering moving up his time frame and yes, the buzz is about IU.

 

BUT INDIANA HAS ZERO CHANCE AT HARRIS!

[SouthSideRyan]

We'll see.

 

If he wants to go play for that cokehead spaz, it's his loss.