College Basketball 2010-11

[Exile on Waveland]

Lavin to St. John's.

 

:lol:

 

I didn't follow UCLA that closely but he either had to have been a good recruiter or slightly better coach than he gets credit for. I know it's UCLA but still he wasn't that bad.

 

And yeah it sucks to not have him doing Big Ten games.

 

His recruiting was really good. His teams were consistently pretty stacked. His coaching? Uh, not so much.

 

His recruiting was great early on (had the #1 class in...I want to say 1998) but it tailed off big time as the program continued to stall out in the Sweet 16 and you got further and further away from the 1995 national championship.

 

He couldn't coach if his life depended on it.

 

Getting to the Sweet 16 all the time isn't necessarily something to sneeze at. I figured Lavin was a better tourney coach than a regular season coach.

 

Weren't some of those Sweet 16 "runs" pretty surprising at the time?

 

Lavin definitely over-achieved in the tournament by seeding, though I think that has a lot to do with under-performance in the regular season. As I've said, most of his teams were very talented and athletic. He made the Elite Eight as 2-seed in 1997, the Sweet 16 as a 6-seed in 1998, lost in the first round as a 5-seed in 1999 (with me in attendance and Baron Davis in a Bruin uniform), the Sweet 16 as a 6-seed in 2000, the Sweet 16 as a 4-seed in 2001, and the Sweet 16 as an 8-seed in 2002.

 

The 2002 run was surprising by seed, but not in actuality, in my opinion. I actually picked them to go to even further to the Elite Eight that year -- the 1-seed was an extremely overrated Cincinnati team. The destruction of Maryland in the 2000 second round (105-70) was quite surprising.

[NCCubFan]

I don't really like the idea of 96 teams (I'm in the camp of thinking it would dilute the tournament), but my opposition to it isn't that strong. I'll still definitely watch the tournament and I'll still definitely participate in bracket contests.

[SouthSideRyan]

Ben Howland has missed the tourney more times in his 7 years than Lavin did in his.

[Guest]

We're talking about a 30 game season with about a hundred teams vying for spots with very uncommon schedules. There isn't a ton of difference between lots of these at-large candidates.

[hawkeyecub]

I'm against it because it's nearly perfect how it is but I'm not as upset about it anymore mainly because I know it's inevitable. Has anyone read any preliminary proposals about how they'll set it up?

[Garwilly]

I'm against it because it's nearly perfect how it is but I'm not as upset about it anymore mainly because I know it's inevitable. Has anyone read any preliminary proposals about how they'll set it up?

 

Likely 32 byes, with the other 64 playing for the right to play them.

[SpongeWorthy]

Ben Howland has missed the tourney more times in his 7 years than Lavin did in his.

 

And the number of ADs, university presidents, alumni, students, and fans that would take Lavin over Howland as the coach of its basketball team is still 0.

[SouthSideRyan]

Ben Howland has missed the tourney more times in his 7 years than Lavin did in his.

 

And the number of ADs, university presidents, alumni, students, and fans that would take Lavin over Howland as the coach of its basketball team is still 0.

 

No [expletive]

[hawkeyecub]

I'm against it because it's nearly perfect how it is but I'm not as upset about it anymore mainly because I know it's inevitable. Has anyone read any preliminary proposals about how they'll set it up?

 

Likely 32 byes, with the other 64 playing for the right to play them.

 

Yeah I get that. I'm wondering who will get the byes and how they'll sort it out with the automatic qualifiers from one-bid leagues. I know nothing is even close to final, just wondering if there have been proposals I've missed.

[Guest]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/31/sports/ncaabasketball/31storm.html

 

Once, when the Bruins took the court for a game against Gonzaga, he turned to an assistant to ask if the Zags played zone or man-to-man. One summer, he left the recruiting circuit to fly to Boston to watch baseball’s All-Star Game at Fenway Park.

 

At a high school tournament near Seattle, while coaches and scouts sat in the bleachers taking notes on prospects, Lavin watched the games from the side, pedaling away on an exercise bike until he was soaked with sweat.

 

It was incidents like these that prompted Baron Davis, a former N.B.A. all-star who played for Lavin during his two years in college, to remark on a return to Pauley Pavilion that his U.C.L.A. teams should have been recognized along with the university’s 11 national championship teams with a banner of their own — as the first team to make the N.C.A.A. tournament without a coach.

[Guest]

Lavin to St. John's.

 

:lol:

 

I didn't follow UCLA that closely but he either had to have been a good recruiter or slightly better coach than he gets credit for. I know it's UCLA but still he wasn't that bad.

 

And yeah it sucks to not have him doing Big Ten games.

 

His recruiting was really good. His teams were consistently pretty stacked. His coaching? Uh, not so much.

 

His recruiting was great early on (had the #1 class in...I want to say 1998) but it tailed off big time as the program continued to stall out in the Sweet 16 and you got further and further away from the 1995 national championship.

 

He couldn't coach if his life depended on it.

 

Getting to the Sweet 16 all the time isn't necessarily something to sneeze at. I figured Lavin was a better tourney coach than a regular season coach.

 

Weren't some of those Sweet 16 "runs" pretty surprising at the time?

 

Lavin definitely over-achieved in the tournament by seeding, though I think that has a lot to do with under-performance in the regular season. As I've said, most of his teams were very talented and athletic. He made the Elite Eight as 2-seed in 1997, the Sweet 16 as a 6-seed in 1998, lost in the first round as a 5-seed in 1999 (with me in attendance and Baron Davis in a Bruin uniform), the Sweet 16 as a 6-seed in 2000, the Sweet 16 as a 4-seed in 2001, and the Sweet 16 as an 8-seed in 2002.

 

The 2002 run was surprising by seed, but not in actuality, in my opinion. I actually picked them to go to even further to the Elite Eight that year -- the 1-seed was an extremely overrated Cincinnati team. The destruction of Maryland in the 2000 second round (105-70) was quite surprising.

 

Exactly. His teams were unimpressive in the regular season so reaching the Sweet 16 was good in comparison to the seeding. But given the talent he had on those rosters, there's no reason his teams were so wildly inconsistent and with such poor showings.

 

I mean, a starting lineup with Baron Davis, Earl Watson, Jaron Rush, Jerome Moiso and Dan Gadzuric only was a 5 seed and couldn't win one game in the 1999 tourney.

[Guest]

The 2001 was very highly ranked, and, from memory, may have also been the top-ranked national class (it included Cedric Bozeman, Dijon Thompson, Andre Patterson, and Michael Fey). The 2002 class included Ryan Hollins. His last class (2003) included 5-star Trevor Ariza. There may have been some recruiting slippage -- the last two years didn't include enough players and Evan Burns couldn't qualify -- but it's not like his recruiting fell off into an abyss.

 

I think it did following the Bozeman-Thompson-Patterson class. Lavin wasn't getting full classes nor was he filling needs on the roster. He had resorted to giving scholarships to players who were lower-tier Pac-10 level or not even Pac-10 level players. The results were there to see in his last season and Ben Howland's first season.

[SpongeWorthy]

 

Exactly. His teams were unimpressive in the regular season so reaching the Sweet 16 was good in comparison to the seeding. But given the talent he had on those rosters, there's no reason his teams were so wildly inconsistent and with such poor showings.

 

I mean, a starting lineup with Baron Davis, Earl Watson, Jaron Rush, Jerome Moiso and Dan Gadzuric only was a 5 seed and couldn't win one game in the 1999 tourney.

 

Maybe he deserves some credit for duping the general public into thinking Jerome Moiso and Dan Gadzuric were lottery picks.

[gflore34]

A 96 team tournament is going to drastically reduce the chances of the mid-majors, more games to play, eventually, the mid-major will be knocked out. No more Butler or George Mason, etc., Sweet 16's, Final Fours - I believe this faction of tournament lends to its popularity.

[hawkeyecub]

A 96 team tournament is going to drastically reduce the chances of the mid-majors, more games to play, eventually, the mid-major will be knocked out. No more Butler or George Mason, etc., Sweet 16's, Final Fours - I believe this faction of tournament lends to its popularity.

 

George Mason, maybe. It wouldn't have an impact on Butler this year or next year. They shouldn't really be mentioned with George Mason. Butler would have had a bye this year into the 64 anyways.

 

As far as Sweet 16's it all depends on who they give the byes to and how they sort it out with the last 64.

[gflore34]

A 96 team tournament is going to drastically reduce the chances of the mid-majors, more games to play, eventually, the mid-major will be knocked out. No more Butler or George Mason, etc., Sweet 16's, Final Fours - I believe this faction of tournament lends to its popularity.

 

George Mason, maybe. It wouldn't have an impact on Butler this year or next year. They shouldn't really be mentioned with George Mason. Butler would have had a bye this year into the 64 anyways.

 

As far as Sweet 16's it all depends on who they give the byes to and how they sort it out with the last 64.

 

You're right, Butler is damn good and shouldn't be considered a surprise FF contestant, I was trying to get at the Cinderella factor a 96 team tournament is going to kill it.

[CubColtPacer]

A 96 team tournament is going to drastically reduce the chances of the mid-majors, more games to play, eventually, the mid-major will be knocked out. No more Butler or George Mason, etc., Sweet 16's, Final Fours - I believe this faction of tournament lends to its popularity.

 

George Mason, maybe. It wouldn't have an impact on Butler this year or next year. They shouldn't really be mentioned with George Mason. Butler would have had a bye this year into the 64 anyways.

 

As far as Sweet 16's it all depends on who they give the byes to and how they sort it out with the last 64.

 

You're right, Butler is damn good and shouldn't be considered a surprise FF contestant, I was trying to get at the Cinderella factor a 96 team tournament is going to kill it.

 

The Cinderellas will have to get through one more game but there will also be more of them. I don't think too many less will end up surviving to later rounds than currently do. Hopefully this also gives more incentive for Big 6 schools to schedule decent mid-majors as well which should give them more chances to get to those protected seeds.

[shnsajax]

OU cheating again

[Exile on Waveland]

The 2001 was very highly ranked, and, from memory, may have also been the top-ranked national class (it included Cedric Bozeman, Dijon Thompson, Andre Patterson, and Michael Fey). The 2002 class included Ryan Hollins. His last class (2003) included 5-star Trevor Ariza. There may have been some recruiting slippage -- the last two years didn't include enough players and Evan Burns couldn't qualify -- but it's not like his recruiting fell off into an abyss.

 

I think it did following the Bozeman-Thompson-Patterson class. Lavin wasn't getting full classes nor was he filling needs on the roster. He had resorted to giving scholarships to players who were lower-tier Pac-10 level or not even Pac-10 level players. The results were there to see in his last season and Ben Howland's first season.

 

Well, you may be right the last two years. He brought in a quality player each year, but not much else. I'm just tainted by some of the recruiting class disasters IU has had this decade -- zero-star, unranked Jessan Gray-Ashley in 2003 -- that it's hard for me to call any class with an NBA player an "abyss."

[C.C.]

DePaul talking to Reggie Theus? Any thoughts on this? I know nothing about his coaching abilities.

[snoodmonger]

DePaul talking to Reggie Theus? Any thoughts on this? I know nothing about his coaching abilities.

 

 

He's had some success as a coach.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWFNkxE_bf0

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I always thought Julie Connor would be the first female in the NBA

[C.C.]

DePaul talking to Reggie Theus? Any thoughts on this? I know nothing about his coaching abilities.

 

 

He's had some success as a coach.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWFNkxE_bf0

 

Okay, that was funny.

[Guest]

A 96 team tournament is going to drastically reduce the chances of the mid-majors, more games to play, eventually, the mid-major will be knocked out. No more Butler or George Mason, etc., Sweet 16's, Final Fours - I believe this faction of tournament lends to its popularity.

Again, this exact same things were said when the field was expanded to 64 teams.

 

"The big six won't allow any of those at large to be mid-major teams"

 

"Any big six team with a .500 conference record will be let in the tourney"

 

"The extra game will kill the chances of the smaller schools to make a run"

 

yada

 

yada

 

yada

[Exile on Waveland]

A 96 team tournament is going to drastically reduce the chances of the mid-majors, more games to play, eventually, the mid-major will be knocked out. No more Butler or George Mason, etc., Sweet 16's, Final Fours - I believe this faction of tournament lends to its popularity.

Again, this exact same things were said when the field was expanded to 64 teams.

 

"The big six won't allow any of those at large to be mid-major teams"

"Any big six team with a .500 conference record will be let in the tourney"

 

"The extra game will kill the chances of the smaller schools to make a run"

 

yada

 

yada

 

yada

 

I can pretty much promise you no references to the "Big Six" were made the last time the tournament expanded (excluding the inconsequential move from 64 to 65). The year was 1985. Consolidation of the would-be BCS conferences had not taken place. Penn State was in the Atlantic 10. Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Baylor, and Arkansas were in the SWC. Notre Dame was independent. Memphis, Cincinnati, Louisville, Florida State, Virginia Tech, and South Carolina were in the Metro. Miami (FL) didn't have a program. The current BCS conferences had not flexed their muscles to the point they have now.

 

Finally, comparing this to the last expansion isn't terribly instructive. The last expansion went from 53 teams to 64 teams. That was actually the biggest ever expansion, as nine was the largest in history prior to 1985. This expansion would add 31 teams -- which is almost half the current field. It's completely unprecedented.