Re: Cubs upset with Theriot?

[dew1679666265]

 

Theriot has said repeatedly that he views himself as a shortstop and says that is his natural position.

 

Right, but that doesn't change the fact that both Lou and Jim could have moved him to 2nd at some point. Plenty of guys have played not their preferred spots for the benefit of the team. ARod being an extreme example.

 

Still nothing worth loathing the guy over.

 

Yeah, Lou and Jim should have moved him to second previously, but I was just pointing out that Theriot sees himself as a SS.

 

And I don't loathe him at all. I don't even mind him that much.

[dew1679666265]

Those spewing this vitriol do realize we are talking about a separation of $800K, right? On a payroll over $140 Million, right? I'm not sure everyone who has posted in this thread read the actual dollar amounts in the first post.

 

The Cubs don't need Theriot for forever, but they do need him now so that we can be patient with Castro until he is completely ready to make the move. So just split the middle to $3 mill and call it a day.

 

I'm guessing any reports of a rift with the Cubs is based on Theriot's people not being willing to split the difference in the way that pretty much every other arbitration case has done.

 

Yeah, it's that he reportedly won't budge from his asking price that's got the Cubs brass pissed off. All players ask for more than the club wants them to in arbitration, but most also will negotiate to middle ground. Theriot is reportedly not doing that.

 

So the truly hilarious outcome would be the arbitration panel settling on the Cubs figure. 8-)

 

I never thought Theriot would be Hendry's first arbitration player.

[Backtobanks]

Nothing should be done with Theriot until Castro is ready. Castro is not ready. Next offseason perhaps.

 

Next offseason at the latest. By then his value will be much less. He'll have played his age 30 season, he'll be making millions and due for another raise regardless of performance. If you want to get any value out of Theriot, you trade him within the next 6 months. Castro may be ready before then, and there's enough depth to hold ground without him for a bit.

 

I repeat the message in my earlier post, how much value does Theriot have? Teams haven't exactly been lining up to jump on the Hudson, Kennedy, Cabrera, and Lopez bandwagon. If we could get somebody in return that would be a reasonable upgrade to the Cubs current roster, then great, but to trade the starting SS on a team that hopes to contend because some posters don't like him and he's asking for $800,000 more than the team is offering is ridiculous.

 

The idea is that because of youth and inexpensiveness he would command quite a bit in a trade. I don't necessarily think so, but wouldn't be opposed to shopping him around to get an idea of his value around the league. I wouldn't trade him for peanuts, however, and I don't think too many others on here have supported that.

 

The Theriot-haters claim that he's soon to be on the wrong side of 30 and that he's making too much money. As for "trading him for peanuts", I'm not sure how much he would be worth. I agree that Hendry might want to float his name around to get an idea of what someone might be willing to pay for him, but in this marketplace I can't see how we would get too much.

[dew1679666265]

[The Theriot-haters claim that he's soon to be on the wrong side of 30 and that he's making too much money. As for "trading him for peanuts", I'm not sure how much he would be worth. I agree that Hendry might want to float his name around to get an idea of what someone might be willing to pay for him, but in this marketplace I can't see how we would get too much.

 

That's why they want him traded now, while he's on the right side of 30 and still relatively inexpensive. My thoughts, however, are that his value will be suppressed because other teams will see how close he is to being expensive and over 30 and will adjust what they're willing to deal accordingly. Ideally, I think, the Cubs hold Theriot until the trade deadline and see if a team is desperate for a SS. If so, they may overlook the negatives and overpay.

[blangen]

If Theriot ends up losing arb and then has a down season, what are the odds he doesn't blame management for ruining team chemistry? Try to get as much value out of him as soon as you can. Could we go with Darwin Barney until Castro is ready?

[Sammy Sofa]

Ryan Theriot is a clubhouse cancer.

 

I'm going to start derisively saying "Theriot-lovers," too. Us haters aren't the one with the problem.

[Tim M]

Theriot is perfectly fine. He's an average SS making average money. $3.4 million isn't out of line at all for a guy with his production over the last few years. When Castro is ready to go, Theriot will be moved to 2B or traded. But instead of accepting that I guess we can all be miserable and bash the guy because we don't like his facial hair or T-shirts and complain about his grittiness.

[Sammy Sofa]

Yes, I'm glad you understand the sound logic in all of this. Now let's make up great search results for anyone seeking out information about him.

 

Ryan Theriot did 9/11. Ryan Theriot did 9/11. Ryan Theriot did 9/11. Ryan Theriot did 9/11.

 

Ryan Theriot underage porn scandal. Ryan Theriot underage porn scandal. Ryan Theriot underage porn scandal. Ryan Theriot underage porn scandal.

[Guest]

Theroit has seen Castro play. If I'm him I try to squeeze every dollar out of the Cubs I can because I know my time with the organization is limited. The more he makes this year sets the bar higher (potentially) for his next gig with a different team. Hell, he might be trying to push the Cubs to deal him before Castro takes his job and he gets the reputation of having lost his job.

 

I still think Cedeno would have been a better shortstop if given enough time (shut up truffle).

[Sammy Sofa]

Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK.

[Tim M]

Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK.

 

Creepy.

[Sammy Sofa]

Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK. Ryan Theriot killed JFK.

 

Creepy.

 

Just be sure to quote it as much as possible to increase the chance of a search engine finding it.

[Guest]

the one player who has been consistently and quietly doing his job would get a break.

 

Quietly isn't exactly the adjective I'd use.

 

Theriot and his agent have watched Hendry hand out ridiculous contract after ridiculous contract. Why shouldn't Theriot ask for a ridiculous contract as well? Based on that really awful Aaron Miles contract alone, I'm guessing Theriot will win. Not exactly sure what he's going to win in the big picture, but he will probably win this particular stand off.

[CubColtPacer]

the one player who has been consistently and quietly doing his job would get a break.

 

Quietly isn't exactly the adjective I'd use.

 

Theriot and his agent have watched Hendry hand out ridiculous contract after ridiculous contract. Why shouldn't Theriot ask for a ridiculous contract as well? Based on that really awful Aaron Miles contract alone, I'm guessing Theriot will win. Not exactly sure what he's going to win in the big picture, but he will probably win this particular stand off.

 

Theriot can't use the contract of Miles or any other free agent contract in his arbitration hearing. They aren't relevant to his case.

[GTAG]

I am open to trading Theriot, but I have a couple of questions. First, if the Cubs were to trade Theriot when his trade value is presumably at it's highest... what could the Cubs realistically look to get in return? Secondly, what is to the Cubs advantage improved defense with Blanco (assumed replacement for at least the beginning of the season) or the current offense of Theriot? If they could get something of value in return for him and the drop off in offense is even closely outweighed by the improved defense then a trade would be fine with me... anything to get this team to the World Series for crying out loud... it is starting to get a little ridiculous... :D just my $.02

[USSoccer]

the one player who has been consistently and quietly doing his job would get a break.

 

What does Aramis Ramirez have to do with Ryan Theriot being mediocre?

[Uber]

why dont you internet cub fans just back off

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Personally, I don't think Theriot's request is outrageous. When looking at what the Cubs have spent on other players and looking at the salaries of starting shortstops around the league, Theriot's arbitration request is reasonable.

 

I also have no problems with the Cubs trading Theriot if they believe they can improve the club by doing so. I hope they don't trade him simply because he asked for what he was due in arbitration. That would be ridiculous.

[Splendid Splinter]

Personally, I don't think Theriot's request is outrageous. When looking at what the Cubs have spent on other players and looking at the salaries of starting shortstops around the league, Theriot's arbitration request is reasonable.

 

I also have no problems with the Cubs trading Theriot if they believe they can improve the club by doing so. I hope they don't trade him simply because he asked for what he was due in arbitration. That would be ridiculous.

 

 

You can't compare Theriot to other start shortstops salaries around the league and say it's reasonable. Theriot is on his first year of arbitration. Players nowadays are asking WAY too much right off the bat (there are exceptions to this who do deserves their pay raise: Lincecum/Howard/etc...). Theriot is asking 1/3 of what Ryan Howard got in his first year of arbitration. Theriot is, at best, a touch below average player who does nothing special and cubs got depth underneath him. You have to compare him to other shortstops with their first year of arbitration. It didn't help the fact Orlando Cabrera got 3 mil from the Reds. Most of the shortstops in the league were probably signed as FAs. Does anybody know what Stephen Drew asked for or got in his first arbitration year? Heck, if I was Hendry... I would have Felipe lopez on speed dial right now and see if he would be willing to take than what Theriot is asking for.

 

Plus when Theriot moves to 2B, his value goes down as well because of defensive value from SS going to 2B is less and his offense will be even worse compared to other 2Bs around the league...

 

I rather sign Felipe Lopez for a 3 mil/1 yr deal and just trade Theriot for a prospect of some kind... Lopez can play SS until Castro is ready and probably can get him for cheaper than what Theriot is asking for. Plus, Lopez is YOUNGER than Theriot.

[shnsajax]

I would rather sign Hudson to play 2nd, and let Castro play SS.

[dew1679666265]

Does anybody know what Stephen Drew asked for or got in his first arbitration year?

 

The Diamondbacks and SS Stephen Drew avoided arbitration on Tuesday by agreeing to a one-year, $3.4 million contract.

This was Drew's first chance at arbitration. Bothered by a hamstring injury early last season, the soon-to-be 27-year-old never got on track, finishing with a .261/.320/.428 batting line to go along with 12 homers and 65 RBI. He struggled away from home last season, but there's still plenty of reason to suggest he'll bounce back to his 2008 performance.

 

Per Rotoworld

 

Theriot career ML OPS: .725

Drew career ML OPS: .771

 

Theriot career ML UZR/150: 4.8

Drew career ML UZR/150: -7.8

[davell]

Theriot will lose his arbitration hearing. 2.6 is fine for him for THIS year, but considering his salary will be going up from there, trading him is the right thing for us to do, just as Tim has said. He's more valuable right now than he will be at any other point, so the issue is basically this: Do we think that between Blanco, Barney, and Castro, we can make up what we're losing with Theriot right now? I don't want to rush Castro, but it's not inconceivable that he could outperform Theriot in 2010 either. I guess it's going to hinge on where we think he's at come spring training. Barney probably needs more seasoning as well, but longterm I think he will basically become Theriot as it is. Does Blanco's glove make up for Theriot's bat? Especially if he puts up a .625-.650ish OPS? No idea, but Rob or someone else can do the math and see if it works out, numbers-wise.......

 

What can we get for him is the next question and my guess is not a lot. Is he worth some other teams version of Chris Carpenter and Kyler Burke? If we could get 2 guys in that range of prospects from someone, I'd go ahead and make it happen and go with Blanco or preferrably Castro......

[Backtobanks]

Theriot will lose his arbitration hearing. 2.6 is fine for him for THIS year, but considering his salary will be going up from there, trading him is the right thing for us to do, just as Tim has said. He's more valuable right now than he will be at any other point, so the issue is basically this: Do we think that between Blanco, Barney, and Castro, we can make up what we're losing with Theriot right now? I don't want to rush Castro, but it's not inconceivable that he could outperform Theriot in 2010 either. I guess it's going to hinge on where we think he's at come spring training. Barney probably needs more seasoning as well, but longterm I think he will basically become Theriot as it is. Does Blanco's glove make up for Theriot's bat? Especially if he puts up a .625-.650ish OPS? No idea, but Rob or someone else can do the math and see if it works out, numbers-wise.......

 

What can we get for him is the next question and my guess is not a lot. Is he worth some other teams version of Chris Carpenter and Kyler Burke? If we could get 2 guys in that range of prospects from someone, I'd go ahead and make it happen and go with Blanco or preferrably Castro......

 

First you say you don't want to rush Castro (or Barney) and then you're willing to turn over the starting SS job on a contending team to him. I don't have a problem trading Theriot when we have a capable replacement. I'm not sure you would be able to get much for him with the marketplace the way it is and capable FAs floating around.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

What can we get for him is the next question and my guess is not a lot. Is he worth some other teams version of Chris Carpenter and Kyler Burke? If we could get 2 guys in that range of prospects from someone, I'd go ahead and make it happen and go with Blanco or preferrably Castro......

 

I'd be pretty pleased if the Cubs were able to get two prospects like Burke and Carpenter for Theriot, but I cannot see that happening. Burke and Carpenter would be top 10-15 prospects in at least half of baseball's minor league systems, wouldn't they? I'm not a Theriot fan by any means, but I'm with those who don't think a mediocre 30-year old SS making ~$3 million is going to bring back much in a trade.

[Rob]

Theriot will lose his arbitration hearing. 2.6 is fine for him for THIS year, but considering his salary will be going up from there, trading him is the right thing for us to do, just as Tim has said. He's more valuable right now than he will be at any other point, so the issue is basically this: Do we think that between Blanco, Barney, and Castro, we can make up what we're losing with Theriot right now? I don't want to rush Castro, but it's not inconceivable that he could outperform Theriot in 2010 either. I guess it's going to hinge on where we think he's at come spring training. Barney probably needs more seasoning as well, but longterm I think he will basically become Theriot as it is. Does Blanco's glove make up for Theriot's bat? Especially if he puts up a .625-.650ish OPS? No idea, but Rob or someone else can do the math and see if it works out, numbers-wise.......

 

What can we get for him is the next question and my guess is not a lot. Is he worth some other teams version of Chris Carpenter and Kyler Burke? If we could get 2 guys in that range of prospects from someone, I'd go ahead and make it happen and go with Blanco or preferrably Castro......

 

It's hard to quantify Blanco's defense at SS. He only got 90 innings there last year and hadn't played in the majors since 2006. And even at that, he only has 66 total games at SS in the majors.

 

That said, I don't see it as particularly likely that his glove can cover the gap in their offensive abilities.