Halladay to Phillies - Lee to Mariners

[Guancous]

Since last August, the Phillies effectively traded Carlos Carrasco, Jason Knapp, Lou Marson, Jason Donald and potentially Michael Taylor for Roy Halladay and potentially a Mariners prospect.

[dew1679666265]

What do the Mariners really get out of this deal? I realize they picked up Lee, but I've got to figure they gave up some nice prospects and is acquiring Lee worth that for a team like Seattle?

 

Maybe I'm underrating them, but I don't see Cliff Lee as the difference between them competing and not competing. Odd for the Phillies too, I think. As others have asked, is the upgrade from Lee to Halladay worth giving up top prospects?

[inari]

I wouldn't be so sure that the Mariners aren't capable of competing, especially if they were to sign Jason Bay. That said, I doubt Bay signs there because of his defense.

[NonProfitCow]

Seattle won 85 games last year and have added Cliff Lee and Chone Figgins. With what the Angels have lost, I'd say the West is up for grabs.

[jersey cubs fan]

What do the Mariners really get out of this deal? I realize they picked up Lee, but I've got to figure they gave up some nice prospects and is acquiring Lee worth that for a team like Seattle?

 

Maybe I'm underrating them, but I don't see Cliff Lee as the difference between them competing and not competing. Odd for the Phillies too, I think. As others have asked, is the upgrade from Lee to Halladay worth giving up top prospects?

 

Why is it weird for Seattle? They were marginally competitive without him, and now they can say they added a Cy Young winner. They still have to work to sell tickets. They signed away a bat from one rival that also lost a big pitcher while the other rival acquired a pretty good one.

 

For Philly it looks like they are getting an upgrade as well as cost certainty for the next few years, as opposed to waiting out Cliff Lee's free agent desires. It's also entirely possible that they were getting the message that Lee had no interest in staying there longterm.

[17 Seconds]

Should be interesting to see how all the pieces fit, but Lee to Halladay seems like a pretty lateral move for the Phils.

 

Not sure what the motivation for that would be from their standpoint.

 

halladay is better than lee AND they got to extend him

[Sammys Boombox]

Halladay gets an extension with the trade. It's gonna be hard to beat the Phillies for the next few years. I'd like to say Lee and Halladay would give you similar numbers, and they might, but we haven't see what Halladay can do outside the AL East for a full season yet.

 

Sources are saying Halladay has agreed to sign a long term extension as part of the deal. The sources are also reporting Halladay has agreed to take a smaller contract than what he could have gotten in free agency to be part of the Phillies. If you are a Phillies fan you have to love hearing that.

 

You mean we haven't seen what Halladay can do outside the best offensive division in baseball yet? Hope he can adjust to the NL East...

Edited December 15, 2009 by Sammy's Boombox

[17 Seconds]

Halladay gets an extension with the trade. It's gonna be hard to beat the Phillies for the next few years. I'd like to say Lee and Halladay would give you similar numbers, and they might, but we haven't see what Halladay can do outside the AL East for a full season yet.

 

Sources are saying Halladay has agreed to sign a long term extension as part of the deal. The sources are also reporting Halladay has agreed to take a smaller contract than what he could have gotten in free agency to be part of the Phillies. If you are a Phillies fan you have to love hearing that.

 

You mean we haven't seen what Halladay can do outside the best offensive division in baseball yet? Hope he can adjust to the NL East (and remember he's pitching for the Phillies).

 

yeah that post didn't really make sense to me either

[AlwaysaCub]

Halladay is going to absolutely dominate the NL. ERA under 2.10 is not out of the realm of possibilities.

[dew1679666265]

What do the Mariners really get out of this deal? I realize they picked up Lee, but I've got to figure they gave up some nice prospects and is acquiring Lee worth that for a team like Seattle?

 

Maybe I'm underrating them, but I don't see Cliff Lee as the difference between them competing and not competing. Odd for the Phillies too, I think. As others have asked, is the upgrade from Lee to Halladay worth giving up top prospects?

 

Why is it weird for Seattle? They were marginally competitive without him, and now they can say they added a Cy Young winner. They still have to work to sell tickets. They signed away a bat from one rival that also lost a big pitcher while the other rival acquired a pretty good one.

 

I forgot they won 85 games. I knew they got off to a competitive start, but thought they tailed off a bit more at the end of the year.

 

Even with another big bat like Bay, do they have the offense to contend? I thought of Lee as a ticket-seller, but depending on who they gave up to get him, will he sell enough tickets to be worth it? Considering they won 85 games last year, adding Lee might be enough to keep them as contenders, I'm just not that impressed with their offense.

 

Again, though, maybe I'm underrating them.

 

For Philly it looks like they are getting an upgrade as well as cost certainty for the next few years, as opposed to waiting out Cliff Lee's free agent desires. It's also entirely possible that they were getting the message that Lee had no interest in staying there longterm.

 

That makes sense.

[inari]

With the Mariners pitching staff and absolutely phenomenal defense, they really won't need a huge offense.

[Shilzzz]

Since last August, the Phillies effectively traded Carlos Carrasco, Jason Knapp, Lou Marson, Jason Donald and potentially Michael Taylor for Roy Halladay and potentially a Mariners prospect.

 

Carrasco is an interesting arm who never is going to reach his potential and lacks control, Marson is a slightly below league average starting catcher or a good backup with above average defense, Knapp and Donald are interesting, but that's not horrible to land Halladay, and they still have their top guys in their system.

[Shilzzz]

With the Mariners pitching staff and absolutely phenomenal defense, they really won't need a huge offense.

 

Franklin Gutierrez is sooooo good.

[dew1679666265]

With the Mariners pitching staff and absolutely phenomenal defense, they really won't need a huge offense.

 

They do have a phenomenal defense. They'll have to score at some point, though, and Ichiro and Griffey are getting older.

[Clem Fandango]

Wow. I did not see this coming. Helluva deal for the Phillies.

[davell]

Wow. I did not see this coming. Helluva deal for the Phillies.

 

I'm not so sure about that, especially since it now appears Drabek is in the deal.

[davearm2]

Should be interesting to see how all the pieces fit, but Lee to Halladay seems like a pretty lateral move for the Phils.

 

Not sure what the motivation for that would be from their standpoint.

 

halladay is better than lee AND they got to extend him

This thing can start to make sense for the Phils if they do in fact have an extension arranged with Halladay, AND they put the same deal on the table for Lee and he rejected it.

 

However if Lee would've accepted the extension given to Halladay, then I'm back to wondering what they're doing giving up value (presumably) for a marginally-better ace.

[Clem Fandango]

Wow. I did not see this coming. Helluva deal for the Phillies.

 

I'm not so sure about that, especially since it now appears Drabek is in the deal.

 

 

Eww, yeah. MLBTR says that Happ and Blanton took physicals so they might be part of the deal as well. Lee, Happ, Blanton, and Drabek for Halladay?

 

The missing players involved are making this thing exciting

[davell]

Wow. I did not see this coming. Helluva deal for the Phillies.

 

I'm not so sure about that, especially since it now appears Drabek is in the deal.

 

 

Eww, yeah. MLBTR says that Happ and Blanton took physicals so they might be part of the deal as well. Lee, Happ, Blanton, and Drabek for Halladay?

 

The missing players involved are making this thing exciting

 

Some Bigbird clone over on the Jays Scout site evidently broke this deal yesterday for them(from what I can tell anyway) and he's been saying that Drabek and Taylor are both in the deal since the beginning, even after no one else was mentioning Drabek at all and now they are acting like he IS in the deal. So this guy at least has some sort of contact, you would think anyway. He also said that Philly is doing this based on Lee's salary demands for next year. Plus, it looks like Halladay just signed a 3/60 extension as well.

[Post Count Padder]

Seems like the Phils are giving up a lot, but Halladay will be awesome now that he's out of the AL East and AL altogether.

[erik316wttn]

Wow. I did not see this coming. Helluva deal for the Phillies.

 

I'm not so sure about that, especially since it now appears Drabek is in the deal.

 

 

Eww, yeah. MLBTR says that Happ and Blanton took physicals so they might be part of the deal as well. Lee, Happ, Blanton, and Drabek for Halladay?

 

The missing players involved are making this thing exciting

 

 

If true, I wonder why the Phils caved on sending Drabek to Toronto, or if it was just posturing all along to get the Jays to lower their asking price.

[UMFan83]

Halladay gets an extension with the trade. It's gonna be hard to beat the Phillies for the next few years. I'd like to say Lee and Halladay would give you similar numbers, and they might, but we haven't see what Halladay can do outside the AL East for a full season yet.

 

Sources are saying Halladay has agreed to sign a long term extension as part of the deal. The sources are also reporting Halladay has agreed to take a smaller contract than what he could have gotten in free agency to be part of the Phillies. If you are a Phillies fan you have to love hearing that.

 

You mean we haven't seen what Halladay can do outside the best offensive division in baseball yet? Hope he can adjust to the NL East (and remember he's pitching for the Phillies).

 

yeah that post didn't really make sense to me either

 

You guys have it backwards. I was saying Lee and Halladay would give you similar numbers, but I haven't seen how good Halladay will be outside the AL East. Meaning if he put ups those numbers in the AL East, I can only imagine what he'd do in the NL East. Sorry for making it confusing, it made sense to me when I wrote it.

[NonProfitCow]

Phillippe Aumont is going from Seattle to Philadelphia as well.

[big_shooter17]

Now the latest on MLBTR (most of what is on there is from Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun) says that all that the Mariners are giving up is Aumont. I don't know what to believe because if that is all that the Mariners had to give for Cliff Lee, as good as he may be, there would have been a lot of teams that would have given more than that. You would have figured that the Cubs could have given Cashner for argument sake.

[Cubswin11]

Now the latest on MLBTR (most of what is on there is from Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun) says that all that the Mariners are giving up is Aumont. I don't know what to believe because if that is all that the Mariners had to give for Cliff Lee, as good as he may be, there would have been a lot of teams that would have given more than that. You would have figured that the Cubs could have given Cashner for argument sake.

I don't see why the Phillies included Lee if they got no pieces being sent to the Jays. If it's a money thing look to trade Blanton and keep Lee.