Cubs Sign Grabow (2 years, $7.5 Million)

[Guest]

Hendry's offseason grade so far: F minus

[javy knows my name]

I really like Fangraphs. I just wish someone else in the organization did, too

 

Oh, did Roast get you a job?

I got an entry-level job as a urinal cake technician

[erik316wttn]

This is entirely based on the 25 [expletive] INNINGS he threw for the Cubs. Nothing else matters to Hendry.

What did we expect? When you have one of the worst if not the worst GM in baseball these things will happen frequently.

 

I keep saying he's a bottom-5 GM, but nobody believes me.

[Butterscup1679666578]

Wow awful. I'm glad I went into this offseason with no expectations and have no expectations for this team for awhile. Just pathetic.

[wvcbxl]

You overpayed again, Jimbo. :(

[Cubswin11]

Can't wait for the Bradley trade to go down then the 4/48 deal we hand out to Figgins, this message board might literally blow up once the offseason is done.

[Guest]

What in the Howry Eyre is Hendry doing over there, anyway?

[cubsfan26]

The contract was a little more then I expected, but I figured he would be getting 2y and at least 6.5m from some team and if the Cubs wanted to resign him they would have to pay him in that range. Because a guy who has the era's Grabow had over the last two years in the amount of innings while pitching to both RH and LH is going to get paid at least 3m per year. I don't hate this move as much as most people on this board. Sure it's too much money, but I think Grabow is a solid pitcher and will do ok as our 8th inning set up guy next year. Yeah I know the stat systems don't like him because he allows too many base runners and doesn't strike out enough people. But from watching this guy pitch, he seems to pitch better with guys on base for whatever reason. So people might say he got lucky, but it's hard to get lucky too years in a row. Plus I believe his stats when coming into games with guys on base are pretty good to. Yeah it doesn't make alot of sense why he pitches better when trying to get out of jams but he does. If Grabow has another year when he pitches 70-80 innings, with a era in the 3-3.30 range again people won't mind this move much.

 

 

sign Will Ohman or any of the other 20 nearly identical lefty relievers that will be on the market this winter

 

Grabow pitches from the left side, but he's not really a LH specialist or a loogy. He's more of a full inning pitcher who can pitch to both RH and LH hitters. So I think that makes him a little more valueable in teams eyes then a lefty who comes in to face one or two hitters.

[javy knows my name]

Grabow pitches from the left side, but he's not really a LH specialist or a loogy. He's more of a full inning pitcher who can pitch to both RH and LH hitters. So I think that makes him a little more valueable in teams eyes then a lefty who comes in to face one or two hitters.

That's pretty irrelevant, because we're likely only going to use him as a loogy regardless of his competence vs RHs

[abuck1220]

~$3.75 mil/year seems about right for a guy that will give you 70 innings of 1.40 whip pitching.

 

holy crap, if hendry had to gm a small market team they would win 26 games a year.

[cubsfan26]

That's pretty irrelevant, because we're likely only going to use him as a loogy regardless of his competence vs RHs

 

I don't see it that way and expect him to pitch full innings next year. I recall Lou using Grabow for full innings most of the time last season and rarely did he come in just to face one batter especially late in the year. I expect him to switch off with Guzman as the 8th inning set up guy depending on the situation. Grabow pitched in 72.1 innings in 75 games last year and 76 innings in 74 games in 08. So he's not really a LH specialist and hasn't been used that way the last few seasons.

[jersey cubs fan]

The contract was a little more then I expected, but I figured he would be getting 2y and at least 6.5m from some team and if the Cubs wanted to resign him they would have to pay him in that range. Because a guy who has the era's Grabow had over the last two years in the amount of innings while pitching to both RH and LH is going to get paid at least 3m per year. I don't hate this move as much as most people on this board. Sure it's too much money, but I think Grabow is a solid pitcher and will do ok as our 8th inning set up guy next year. Yeah I know the stat systems don't like him because he allows too many base runners and doesn't strike out enough people. But from watching this guy pitch, he seems to pitch better with guys on base for whatever reason. So people might say he got lucky, but it's hard to get lucky too years in a row. Plus I believe his stats when coming into games with

 

This is lunacy.

 

Yeah, it's not that hard to get lucky two years in a row. It happens. But his luckiness didn't even result in all that good of results. You don't lock up middle relievers to longterm contracts because middle relievers are completely replacable and inconsistent.

 

Also, you are saying it's fine to pay what they paid because some other teams would offer less? The only point in guaranteeing a 2nd year to a guy like Grabow is if you get a discount. Otherwise just give him the one year arbitration offer and leave yourself some flexibility. This is going to be another guy they end up paying to play elsewhere at the end of his contract. When Hendry signs these marginal guys to multi-year deals, it never works out.

Edited November 19, 2009 by jersey cubs fan

[jersey cubs fan]

~$3.75 mil/year seems about right for a guy that will give you 70 innings of 1.40 whip pitching.

 

holy crap, if hendry had to gm a small market team they would win 26 games a year.

 

They double that win total easily.

[cubsfan26]

Yeah, it's not that hard to get lucky two years in a row. It happens

 

It happens, but it doesn't happen alot. At some point it's not luck anymore. So say Grabow has simliar era's the next two seasons will it still be luck? Baseball is a weird game and sometimes the stats don't always make sense. I have learned that over the years and thats why I don't let some stats be the be all and end all of my opinion on players like alot of people do.

 

But his luckiness didn't even result in all that good of results

 

2.84 era and 3.36 era are pretty good results. The main thing is the guy doesn't let alot of runs score(his runners and other pitchers runners). Yes I understand that in most situations people call that luck and believe the luck will run out, but thats not always the case.

 

You don't lock up middle relievers to longterm contracts because middle relievers are completely replacable and inconsistent

 

I agree there inconsistent and I don't like long term contracts for relievers either. But in baseball these days most relievers end up with more then one year deals. Personally I don't think a 2 year deal is all that bad, because usually when deals for relievers get bad is when it goes to 3-4 years. For example Howry, Eyre and a few other guys were pretty solid the first few years of the deal. But by the third years they were way overpaid and not pitching well.

 

Also, you are saying it's fine to pay what they paid because some other teams would offer less? The only point in guaranteeing a 2nd year to a guy like Grabow is if you get a discount

 

Lets be realistic Grabow was going to get 2y and at least 6m from some team(probably a bunch of teams). Yes the Cubs paid him too much by adding that extra 1.5m in. I'm not saying I love the deal and believe the Cubs overpaid and could have gotten him for less. But thinking the Cubs could have resigned him at 1y 2-3m wasn't going to happen and unrealistic. Because Grabow isn't really a loogy and more of a full inning reliever(something that people aren't taking into account). I know the stat systems don't like Grabow numbers because of all that base runners allowed, but alot of teams and scouts do(obviously including the Cubs). ERA and a scouts eye is always going to be a important thing to these teams and averaging a era in the 3.20s in almost 160 innings over the last two years is gonna get a guy some decent money. Like I said before it doesn't make it ok that the Cubs overpaid and they probably should have waited out.

Edited November 19, 2009 by cubsfan26

[Guest]

That's pretty irrelevant, because we're likely only going to use him as a loogy regardless of his competence vs RHs

 

I don't see it that way and expect him to pitch full innings next year. I recall Lou using Grabow for full innings most of the time last season and rarely did he come in just to face one batter especially late in the year. I expect him to switch off with Guzman as the 8th inning set up guy depending on the situation. Grabow pitched in 72.1 innings in 75 games last year and 76 innings in 74 games in 08. So he's not really a LH specialist and hasn't been used that way the last few seasons.

 

By the end of his contract, we will probably have competely forgotten that Grabow ever pitched for the Cubs. He'll stink up the joint next year and then Hendry will pay him to pitch for anyone else.

 

See Scott Eyre, Bob Howry, LaTroy Hawkins, etc....

 

And I'm fairly certain that Hendry will have given away yet another much more effective and CHEAPER reliever than Grabow will have dreamt of being in 2010.

 

Sort of like how he gave away Michael Wuertz this past year. Wuertz has yet to earn in his entire major league career what Grabow will be paid in 2010.

 

You just don't give out that kind of money to dime a dozen relievers in this economy. Actually never.

[abuck1220]

have ANY of hendry's multi-year, big money deals for middle relievers panned out??? you think he'd learn.

[cubsfan26]

See Scott Eyre, Bob Howry, LaTroy Hawkins, etc....

 

Well the fact that it's a two year deal helps. Remember Howry and Eyre were pretty solid there first two years of the deal. As for Hawkins he sucked as the closer, but overall pitched pretty well.

 

have ANY of hendry's multi-year, big money deals for middle relievers panned out??? you think he'd learn.

 

Maybe he did by only giving 2 years. Remember Howry, Eyre, Remlinger and Hawkins all got 3 year deals. If those were 2 year deals they might have worked out.

 

You just don't give out that kind of money to dime a dozen relievers in this economy. Actually never.

 

Every team does it. Find me guys who have eras of 2.84 and 3.36 in over 70 innings each season and don't get at least 2 year deals? For me it's not really the 2 year deal that bugs me because any reliever who had success the last few seasons is gonna get that this offseason. It's the fact that they probably could have gotten him closer to 3m per year then 3.75m per year, if they wanted a little bit. But the Cubs needed another late inning reliever, especially with Guzman health history. So if it wasn't Grabow they were gonna have to pay somebody to do that. They can't go with all rookies, and journeyman pitchers who haven't had any success and hope it works out. They needed to add a guy who's pitched well when it comes to allowing runners to score and Grabow has done that.

Edited November 19, 2009 by cubsfan26

[dew1679666265]

have ANY of hendry's multi-year, big money deals for middle relievers panned out??? you think he'd learn.

 

Howry and Eyre both pitched well for the Cubs in the first couple of years. Latroy was good as long as he wasn't closing.

 

That said, I'm not a fan of the deal for Grabow.

[Guest]

have ANY of hendry's multi-year, big money deals for middle relievers panned out??? you think he'd learn.

 

Howry and Eyre both pitched well for the Cubs in the first couple of years. Latroy was good as long as he wasn't closing.

 

That said, I'm not a fan of the deal for Grabow.

 

It's not about the first couple of years. It's about the life of the contract. And they are giving out a big money contract at the same time they are crying about not having any money to spend this offseason. Whose fault is that, I wonder?

 

I'll go out on a limb right now and make the bold prediction that 10 guys who will pitch better than Grabow this coming year will be let go because teams didn't want to tender them a contract for the 2010 season. These are guys who will ultimately sign contracts for much less than Grabow just got signed for.

 

Just about every team in the league is crying about the economy. Meanwhile, Hendry is walking around throwing big money at mediocre relievers like he's got all the money in the world to spend this offseason.

 

I'm actually debating what's worse, giving Miles the contract he got last year or giving Grabow this one. They both stink.

[NCCubFan]

For this contract Grabow damn well better have two excellent years. Pretty good isn't good enough.

[erik316wttn]

have ANY of hendry's multi-year, big money deals for middle relievers panned out??? you think he'd learn.

 

Howry and Eyre both pitched well for the Cubs in the first couple of years. Latroy was good as long as he wasn't closing.

 

That said, I'm not a fan of the deal for Grabow.

 

It's not about the first couple of years. It's about the life of the contract. And they are giving out a big money contract at the same time they are crying about not having any money to spend this offseason. Whose fault is that, I wonder?

 

I'll go out on a limb right now and make the bold prediction that 10 guys who will pitch better than Grabow this coming year will be let go because teams didn't want to tender them a contract for the 2010 season. These are guys who will ultimately sign contracts for much less than Grabow just got signed for.

 

Just about every team in the league is crying about the economy. Meanwhile, Hendry is walking around throwing big money at mediocre relievers like he's got all the money in the world to spend this offseason.

 

I'm actually debating what's worse, giving Miles the contract he got last year or giving Grabow this one. They both stink.

 

The Miles one was worse because he's always sucked. Grabow is at least moderately talented.

[Guest]

have ANY of hendry's multi-year, big money deals for middle relievers panned out??? you think he'd learn.

 

Howry and Eyre both pitched well for the Cubs in the first couple of years. Latroy was good as long as he wasn't closing.

 

That said, I'm not a fan of the deal for Grabow.

 

It's not about the first couple of years. It's about the life of the contract. And they are giving out a big money contract at the same time they are crying about not having any money to spend this offseason. Whose fault is that, I wonder?

 

I'll go out on a limb right now and make the bold prediction that 10 guys who will pitch better than Grabow this coming year will be let go because teams didn't want to tender them a contract for the 2010 season. These are guys who will ultimately sign contracts for much less than Grabow just got signed for.

 

Just about every team in the league is crying about the economy. Meanwhile, Hendry is walking around throwing big money at mediocre relievers like he's got all the money in the world to spend this offseason.

 

I'm actually debating what's worse, giving Miles the contract he got last year or giving Grabow this one. They both stink.

 

The Miles one was worse because he's always sucked. Grabow is at least moderately talented.

 

The same major league GM signed them both, so color me scared.

[dew1679666265]

It's not about the first couple of years. It's about the life of the contract. And they are giving out a big money contract at the same time they are crying about not having any money to spend this offseason. Whose fault is that, I wonder?

 

I'll go out on a limb right now and make the bold prediction that 10 guys who will pitch better than Grabow this coming year will be let go because teams didn't want to tender them a contract for the 2010 season. These are guys who will ultimately sign contracts for much less than Grabow just got signed for.

 

Just about every team in the league is crying about the economy. Meanwhile, Hendry is walking around throwing big money at mediocre relievers like he's got all the money in the world to spend this offseason.

 

I'm actually debating what's worse, giving Miles the contract he got last year or giving Grabow this one. They both stink.

 

According to Fangraphs, Howry was worth $12.1 million in his time with the Cubs. He was paid $12 million. Eyre wasn't worth his contract according to Fangraphs.

 

Hawkins was worth $3.8 million his first year, and was paid $3 million. He wasn't worth what he was paid the next.

 

So one deal worked out, one didn't and one worked out for a while.

[Guest]

well, it can't get worse than last offseason right guys?

 

:beg:

 

There's a part of me that's hoping for another crappy offseason, followed by a 71-win season, followed by Ricketts firing everyone and starting over with some actual baseball minds.

 

I know that's messed up, but I can't help it.

 

Why is it I find myself stuck in these situations with so many of my sports teams?

[jersey cubs fan]

According to Fangraphs, Howry was worth $12.1 million in his time with the Cubs. He was paid $12 million. Eyre wasn't worth his contract according to Fangraphs.

 

Hawkins was worth $3.8 million his first year, and was paid $3 million. He wasn't worth what he was paid the next.

 

So one deal worked out, one didn't and one worked out for a while.

 

fangraphs' money charts are nonsense.