2B in 2010.

[Geech]

Theriot is looking like a pretty marginal starting player at short. If you can upgrade the position, I think you should do so. However, if you do I'm not sure that moving Theriot to second really makes a lot of sense, because we can probably do better than him for not much money. A Baker/Fontenot platoon might be better, or for that matter Baker by himself might do a better job.

 

My point is that specifically seeking out a shortstop so you can move Theriot to second is pretty ineffective use of resources.

[Cubswin11]

There are a lot of intriguing 2B for next year, and if Hendry is smart enough/has enough patience. He should be able to find a good bargain on the FA market between Dero, Figgins, Lopez, Iwamura and Hudson. One of those guys, if not multiple, will probably be around all winter and be able to be had on a 1 year deal.

[Tracer Bullet]

Theriot is *not* hurting the team defensively, and moving him to second will expose his bat even more. National league 2nd basemen hit .269/.337/.409 this year whereas shortstops hit .266/.324/.393. Theriot's .286/.334/.381 doesn't look good at either spot, but it's better at short.

 

That seems like a minimal difference, brought down dramatically by removing Reyes from the equation this year. It seems likely that 2B on average are better offensively than SS, but moving an average-at-best defensive SS to 2B, where his defense should be better than average, really doesn't have a significant negative impact on the offense, in and of itself.

 

Isn't the question more of who the new SS is replacing? Isn't Theriot at 2B and Reyes at SS (for example) better than Theriot-Fontenot/Baker? Seems likely to be better both offensively and defensively. Why do we care about league averages, when there are specific players being discussed?

[Little Slide Rooter]

Heres an interesting comparrison-

 

2008 Mike Fontenot-in 119 games/284 PA, he hit .305/.395/.514 with 9 HR.

2009 Cub Jeff Baker-in 47 games/138 PA he hit .341/.399/.508 with 3 HR. small sample size, but impressive none the less.

 

Very similar numbers.

 

And on a side note, this is the sponsership for Jeff Bakers baseballreference page.

 

Tales from Aisle 424 sponsor(s) this page.

 

A Cubs blog written by the President of the Jeff Baker Fan Club (AKA Anti-Aaron Miles Society).

 

This has to be someone from NSBB

[laurens]

Heres an interesting comparrison-

 

2008 Mike Fontenot-in 119 games/284 PA, he hit .305/.395/.514 with 9 HR.

2009 Cub Jeff Baker-in 47 games/138 PA he hit .341/.399/.508 with 3 HR. small sample size, but impressive none the less.

 

Very similar numbers.

 

And on a side note, this is the sponsership for Jeff Bakers baseballreference page.

 

Tales from Aisle 424 sponsor(s) this page.

 

A Cubs blog written by the President of the Jeff Baker Fan Club (AKA Anti-Aaron Miles Society).

 

This has to be someone from NSBB

 

The guy's name is Tim McGinnis :-k

[SouthSideRyan]

Heres an interesting comparrison-

 

2008 Mike Fontenot-in 119 games/284 PA, he hit .305/.395/.514 with 9 HR.

2009 Cub Jeff Baker-in 47 games/138 PA he hit .341/.399/.508 with 3 HR. small sample size, but impressive none the less.

 

Very similar numbers.

 

And on a side note, this is the sponsership for Jeff Bakers baseballreference page.

 

Tales from Aisle 424 sponsor(s) this page.

 

A Cubs blog written by the President of the Jeff Baker Fan Club (AKA Anti-Aaron Miles Society).

 

This has to be someone from NSBB

 

You think this is the only place where people hate Aaron Miles?

[Cubs Fan Dan]

I would not be upset if the Cubs did try Baker everyday, but the problem is that they go into a season not filling which WAS a weakness this season and are relying on more "What If" scenerios to get production at 2B. I do not think we go into next season with a Theriot / Baker combo, I think the only way we see those two on this team is with Theriot at 2B and Baker as a super utility.

[dew1679666265]

Theriot is looking like a pretty marginal starting player at short. If you can upgrade the position, I think you should do so. However, if you do I'm not sure that moving Theriot to second really makes a lot of sense, because we can probably do better than him for not much money. A Baker/Fontenot platoon might be better, or for that matter Baker by himself might do a better job.

 

My point is that specifically seeking out a shortstop so you can move Theriot to second is pretty ineffective use of resources.

 

It's not specifically seeking out only a shortstop. It's not limiting your options. My argument is that moving Theriot to second if we can find a good upgrade at SS should not be ruled out. The goal, however, is not to move Theriot to second. The goal is to upgrade SS and then keep Theriot in the lineup by moving him to second.

 

We can also platoon Theriot and Fontenot at second and then either use Baker as a super-sub, trade him or let him walk and save some money. In his career, Theriot has OPSd .824 against lefties. Baker has done better, but with his terrific numbers as a Cub this year, he might have more trade value than Theriot (though neither would have a lot).

 

There's also the option of finding a SS upgrade, platooning Baker/Fontenot and trading Theriot. It's all about having as many options as possible when our overall options are limited as it is. Refusing to move Theriot to second further limits our options needlessly.

[jersey cubs fan]

Theriot is looking like a pretty marginal starting player at short. If you can upgrade the position, I think you should do so. However, if you do I'm not sure that moving Theriot to second really makes a lot of sense, because we can probably do better than him for not much money. A Baker/Fontenot platoon might be better, or for that matter Baker by himself might do a better job.

 

My point is that specifically seeking out a shortstop so you can move Theriot to second is pretty ineffective use of resources.

 

It's not specifically seeking out only a shortstop. It's not limiting your options. My argument is that moving Theriot to second if we can find a good upgrade at SS should not be ruled out. The goal, however, is not to move Theriot to second. The goal is to upgrade SS and then keep Theriot in the lineup by moving him to second.

 

We can also platoon Theriot and Fontenot at second and then either use Baker as a super-sub, trade him or let him walk and save some money. In his career, Theriot has OPSd .824 against lefties. Baker has done better, but with his terrific numbers as a Cub this year, he might have more trade value than Theriot (though neither would have a lot).

 

There's also the option of finding a SS upgrade, platooning Baker/Fontenot and trading Theriot. It's all about having as many options as possible when our overall options are limited as it is. Refusing to move Theriot to second further limits our options needlessly.

 

 

I don't really think there should be any sort of goal involving keeping Theriot in the lineup. In 2 of his 3 full seasons, he has been a rather lackluster hitter, he's not a good fielder and he turns 30 in a couple months, which indicates his usefulness as a middle infielder may be dwindling soon as he loses whatever step he had on the competition. If you can't find a better replacement, so be it, but they should try.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Heres an interesting comparrison-

 

2008 Mike Fontenot-in 119 games/284 PA, he hit .305/.395/.514 with 9 HR.

2009 Cub Jeff Baker-in 47 games/138 PA he hit .341/.399/.508 with 3 HR. small sample size, but impressive none the less.

 

Very similar numbers.

 

And on a side note, this is the sponsership for Jeff Bakers baseballreference page.

 

Tales from Aisle 424 sponsor(s) this page.

 

A Cubs blog written by the President of the Jeff Baker Fan Club (AKA Anti-Aaron Miles Society).

 

Not quite as vocal. Your average Cub fan prefers to complain about the big name big money guys, and u

 

This has to be someone from NSBB

 

You think this is the only place where people hate Aaron Miles?

 

No, but your average Cubs fan isnt quite as vocal about it and would rather turn their attention to the bigger name guys like Soriano, Gregg, and Bradley when hes slumping , and this little mega turd often slips through the cracks. If you think about all the reasons why the Cubs are where they are, a little utility guy doesnt really register with a lot of people. He may well be the worst Cubs player in recent memory, but do to his limited role, most people just over look him.

Edited September 9, 2009 by Little Slide Rooter

[TommyJohn]

Theriot's best value is in a trade. Surprisingly, there are many people who find him to be a good MLB shortstop.

 

But unfortunately, I think Lou and Hendry are in that group.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Theriot's best value is in a trade. Surprisingly, there are many people who find him to be a good MLB shortstop.

 

But unfortunately, I think Lou and Hendry are in that group.

 

Too bad a deal with the Brewers isnt likely because I think that Theriot and either Marshall or Gorzalanny for JJ Hardy would be a good deal for both sides.

[dew1679666265]

Theriot is looking like a pretty marginal starting player at short. If you can upgrade the position, I think you should do so. However, if you do I'm not sure that moving Theriot to second really makes a lot of sense, because we can probably do better than him for not much money. A Baker/Fontenot platoon might be better, or for that matter Baker by himself might do a better job.

 

My point is that specifically seeking out a shortstop so you can move Theriot to second is pretty ineffective use of resources.

 

It's not specifically seeking out only a shortstop. It's not limiting your options. My argument is that moving Theriot to second if we can find a good upgrade at SS should not be ruled out. The goal, however, is not to move Theriot to second. The goal is to upgrade SS and then keep Theriot in the lineup by moving him to second.

 

We can also platoon Theriot and Fontenot at second and then either use Baker as a super-sub, trade him or let him walk and save some money. In his career, Theriot has OPSd .824 against lefties. Baker has done better, but with his terrific numbers as a Cub this year, he might have more trade value than Theriot (though neither would have a lot).

 

There's also the option of finding a SS upgrade, platooning Baker/Fontenot and trading Theriot. It's all about having as many options as possible when our overall options are limited as it is. Refusing to move Theriot to second further limits our options needlessly.

 

 

I don't really think there should be any sort of goal involving keeping Theriot in the lineup. In 2 of his 3 full seasons, he has been a rather lackluster hitter, he's not a good fielder and he turns 30 in a couple months, which indicates his usefulness as a middle infielder may be dwindling soon as he loses whatever step he had on the competition. If you can't find a better replacement, so be it, but they should try.

 

I guess I should have clarified that even more. The goal isn't to keep Theriot in the lineup, the goal is to be able to upgrade the team and keeping SS as an option. Once a SS upgrade is acquired, moving Theriot to second should be an option. His bat might be a little below average at second, but his defense - which is anywhere from slightly below average to slightly above average at short - would become an asset at second. Moving Theriot to second shouldn't be a goal, but it should be an option.

[Backtobanks]

Theriot's best value is in a trade. Surprisingly, there are many people who find him to be a good MLB shortstop.

 

But unfortunately, I think Lou and Hendry are in that group.

 

Too bad a deal with the Brewers isnt likely because I think that Theriot and either Marshall or Gorzalanny for JJ Hardy would be a good deal for both sides.

 

Making that deal would have us chasing the Cards and the Brewers.

[TommyJohn]

Theriot's best value is in a trade. Surprisingly, there are many people who find him to be a good MLB shortstop.

 

But unfortunately, I think Lou and Hendry are in that group.

 

Too bad a deal with the Brewers isnt likely because I think that Theriot and either Marshall or Gorzalanny for JJ Hardy would be a good deal for both sides.

 

Making that deal would have us chasing the Cards and the Brewers.

 

 

Someone in the transaction section suggested Lilly and Theriot for Reyes. That would be a good deal for both sides.

[Tyrant]

Theriot's best value is in a trade. Surprisingly, there are many people who find him to be a good MLB shortstop.

 

But unfortunately, I think Lou and Hendry are in that group.

 

Too bad a deal with the Brewers isnt likely because I think that Theriot and either Marshall or Gorzalanny for JJ Hardy would be a good deal for both sides.

 

Making that deal would have us chasing the Cards and the Brewers.

 

 

Someone in the transaction section suggested Lilly and Theriot for Reyes. That would be a good deal for both sides.

 

How is that a good deal for the Mets?

[Geech]

That seems like a minimal difference, brought down dramatically by removing Reyes from the equation this year. It seems likely that 2B on average are better offensively than SS, but moving an average-at-best defensive SS to 2B, where his defense should be better than average, really doesn't have a significant negative impact on the offense, in and of itself.

 

Isn't the question more of who the new SS is replacing? Isn't Theriot at 2B and Reyes at SS (for example) better than Theriot-Fontenot/Baker? Seems likely to be better both offensively and defensively. Why do we care about league averages, when there are specific players being discussed?

 

You missed the point. Theriot barely has the bat even for shortstop. He's a somewhat valuable player while he is a shortstop, but moving from short to second makes him that much more replaceable. If you're not going to play him at short, then he doesn't need to be in the starting lineup.

 

Reyes is better than Fontenot/Baker, but that Theriot isn't when you're talking about 2nd base.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Someone in the transaction section suggested Lilly and Theriot for Reyes. That would be a good deal for both sides.

 

How is that a good deal for the Mets?

 

Doing a quick look at WAR, Reyes is slightly more valuable than the two of them, but they'd have Theriot for 2010-2012 while Lilly and Reyes are both free agents at the end of 2010. Plus part of the idea rests on the irrationality of the Mets/Minaya needing to make a move/dump the scapegoats after their terrible 2009.

[davell]

The Mets hold a club option of 11 mill on Reyes for 2011.

[TommyJohn]

Someone in the transaction section suggested Lilly and Theriot for Reyes. That would be a good deal for both sides.

 

How is that a good deal for the Mets?

 

 

The Mets have a lot of work to do this offseason. Ideally, they'd want 2 starters, an outfield bat, and if they trade Reyes, a SS. They have little or no room to add payroll and they'd need to fill these holes than get prospects.

 

Reyes' value in NY is at a low point. There were rumors of managers and front office questioning his work ethic and possibly trading him. He also missed most of this season with an acute on chronic hamstring injury and may need surgery. And free agency is looming.

 

The Mets would be getting a healthy, consistent #2 pitcher behind Santana and a ~.300 hitting starting SS replacement.

 

What are you suggesting is a fair return for Reyes and what the Mets should do?

[twothousandfive]

If they are willing to move Theriot to 2B, they should ask Colorado what they need to add to Soto for Tulowitzki. If not they see what Boston has to say about what they need to add to Soto for Pedroia. Soto plus Gorzelany for either of those guys?

[A-Cal]

If they are willing to move Theriot to 2B, they should ask Colorado what they need to add to Soto for Tulowitzki. If not they see what Boston has to say about what they need to add to Soto for Pedroia. Soto plus Gorzelany for either of those guys?

 

mmm...really?

 

that package for tulo better include a nice piece along with soto

 

gorz is nothing but a throw in...what makes you think boston is interested in trading pedroia?

 

they also have v-mart

[KingCubsFan]

If they are willing to move Theriot to 2B, they should ask Colorado what they need to add to Soto for Tulowitzki. If not they see what Boston has to say about what they need to add to Soto for Pedroia. Soto plus Gorzelany for either of those guys?

Might as well kick the tires on Pujols or Hanley Ramirez while we're at it

[Halman]

If they are willing to move Theriot to 2B, they should ask Colorado what they need to add to Soto for Tulowitzki.

 

Did Chris Ianetta die in a firey plane crash when I wasn't looking?

[TruffleShuffle]

If they are willing to move Theriot to 2B, they should ask Colorado what they need to add to Soto for Tulowitzki. If not they see what Boston has to say about what they need to add to Soto for Pedroia. Soto plus Gorzelany for either of those guys?

Might as well kick the tires on Pujols or Hanley Ramirez while we're at it

 

since we're talking about middle infielders, let's get utley for soto and wells.