2B in 2010.

[SouthSideRyan]

 

Kick the tires on Jose Reyes. I wonder if the pricetag on him has come down a bit.

 

 

I would hope. People used to talk about him like he was the most valuable player in the league, which he never was. Career OPS of .772. I'd rather wait on Castro.

 

I love Starlin Castro, think he's the best prospect in the system, but he's not can't-miss and you don't hold a spot for him after 1/3 of a season at AA.

[RedFlash]

 

Kick the tires on Jose Reyes. I wonder if the pricetag on him has come down a bit.

 

 

I would hope. People used to talk about him like he was the most valuable player in the league, which he never was. Career OPS of .772. I'd rather wait on Castro.

 

I love Starlin Castro, think he's the best prospect in the system, but he's not can't-miss and you don't hold a spot for him after 1/3 of a season at AA.

 

Agreed. Go after Reyes, move Theriot over to 2b until Castro is ready (say 2011 at the earliest) and then trade Theriot when Castro is ready.

[cbbryan]

 

Kick the tires on Jose Reyes. I wonder if the pricetag on him has come down a bit.

 

 

I would hope. People used to talk about him like he was the most valuable player in the league, which he never was. Career OPS of .772. I'd rather wait on Castro.

 

I love Starlin Castro, think he's the best prospect in the system, but he's not can't-miss and you don't hold a spot for him after 1/3 of a season at AA.

 

Agreed. Go after Reyes, move Theriot over to 2b until Castro is ready (say 2011 at the earliest) and then trade Theriot when Castro is ready.

 

I would certainly look into Reyes. I would worry some about his legs........speed is a large part of his game, but if he can get healthy he would surely improve this team.

[TruffleShuffle]

i still think the mets would demand a hell of a lot for reyes.

[cbbryan]

i still think the mets would demand a hell of a lot for reyes.

 

He's one of those players that you'd have to get quite a bit from or the fans will eat you alive. I'd still ask about him.

[17 Seconds]

theriot has below-average range and his arm is a little below average but he makes up for it by being sure handed and reading balls well off the bat. the sum makes him average, which is supported by most of the defensive metrics out there, but people have this idea that he's atrocious defensively so they jump on him for not getting to bouncers that ozzie smith in his prime could not have reached.

 

if he's "awful" and "terrible" let's see some statistical support for that notion.

 

do people still seriously use defensive metrics for anything at all?

 

uzr, which is supposed to be the most badass defensive metric out there, has derek jeter as one of the best defensive shortstops in baseball this season.

 

seriously, stop using defensive metrics.

[17 Seconds]

His defense at short is average at worst. Maybe if you want to stretch t, slightly below average. Under no definition is his defense "terrible".

 

seriously?

 

Seriously. Plus/minus has him above average at shortstop for the past three seasons. While defensive metrics may not be perfect, there's no question that I trust their methodology more than your jaundiced perceptions.

 

wait, so because i think he's a poor defender, that means i'm jaundiced? okay.

 

seriously, this is not even some kind of heretic opinion. i thought it was pretty common knowledge that he is a poor defender.

 

oh but some defensive metrics that will probably have him as horrible and miguel tejada as the best shortstop next season say he's good, so that's that.

[17 Seconds]

His defense at short is average at worst. Maybe if you want to stretch t, slightly below average. Under no definition is his defense "terrible".

 

Agreed, Same with Jeter. :roll:

 

uzr has jeter as a top 5 shortstop this season!

[TruffleShuffle]

seriously, this is not even some kind of heretic opinion. i thought it was pretty common knowledge that he is a poor defender.

 

oh but some defensive metrics that will probably have him as horrible and miguel tejada as the best shortstop next season say he's good, so that's that.

 

(a) knowledge is something that is KNOWN; a lot of people don't KNOW that theriot is a bad defender.

(b) your posts need to stop being such condescending d-bags.

[muntjack]

Look, I'm not saying Castro is a guarantee at all. I'm saying Reyes is terribly overrated, certainly by the Mets, who would likely ask the moon for him. If it took Vitters, Castro and Wells for Reyes for example, I would much rather take another .720 OPS year from Theriot and hope that Castro torches AA next year.

 

Again, Jose Reyes has a leg injury, makes $9 million next year, will likely cost a healthy chunk of our farm and has a .772 career OPS. And our top prospect plays SS. This should not be the teams priority.

[17 Seconds]

seriously, this is not even some kind of heretic opinion. i thought it was pretty common knowledge that he is a poor defender.

 

oh but some defensive metrics that will probably have him as horrible and miguel tejada as the best shortstop next season say he's good, so that's that.

 

(a) knowledge is something that is KNOWN; a lot of people don't KNOW that theriot is a bad defender.

(b) your posts need to stop being such condescending d-bags.

 

a) yeah, just like people that don't KNOW that Jake Fox is bad at catcher, or that people don't KNOW that dusty baker is a terrible manager.

 

b) condescending d-bags? why don't you go back at this thread and look at your posts, then tell me which one of us was the first one to be a condescending d-bag to the other.

[Geech]

wait, so because i think he's a poor defender, that means i'm jaundiced? okay.

 

seriously, this is not even some kind of heretic opinion. i thought it was pretty common knowledge that he is a poor defender.

 

oh but some defensive metrics that will probably have him as horrible and miguel tejada as the best shortstop next season say he's good, so that's that.

 

Are you ever right about anything?

[SouthSideRyan]

Look, I'm not saying Castro is a guarantee at all. I'm saying Reyes is terribly overrated, certainly by the Mets, who would likely ask the moon for him. If it took Vitters, Castro and Wells for Reyes for example, I would much rather take another .720 OPS year from Theriot and hope that Castro torches AA next year.

 

Again, Jose Reyes has a leg injury, makes $9 million next year, will likely cost a healthy chunk of our farm and has a .772 career OPS. And our top prospect plays SS. This should not be the teams priority.

 

The team's priority should be to get better. And I don't think Reyes is overrated by the Mets at all. He along with every other good player on their team is being scapegoated for their disaster this year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/42127/defenseandfip2.jpg

[17 Seconds]

wait, so because i think he's a poor defender, that means i'm jaundiced? okay.

 

seriously, this is not even some kind of heretic opinion. i thought it was pretty common knowledge that he is a poor defender.

 

oh but some defensive metrics that will probably have him as horrible and miguel tejada as the best shortstop next season say he's good, so that's that.

 

Are you ever right about anything?

 

typical response and exactly what i expected out of you. you make a very convincing argument. good job.

[sneakypower]

if you're bothered by my suffocating obnoxiousness, just put me on ignore!

[17 Seconds]

is it really that hard for you to do that?

 

funny to hear you call somebody obnoxious though, considering you constantly make posts just taking shots at me that have nothing to do with the conversation (and usually in a conversation that you aren't even involved in).

 

seriously, what do you get out of constantly making one line shots at me (ones that you think are funny) and then running off? just try to not do that. thanks.

[Halman]

The team's priority should be to get better. And I don't think Reyes is overrated by the Mets at all. He along with every other good player on their team is being scapegoated for their disaster this year.

 

If that were true I would throw every warm body in the farm system for David Wright. alas I don't think that's true.

[Vanilla Ice]

is it really that hard for you to do that?

 

funny to hear you call somebody obnoxious though, considering you constantly make posts just taking shots at me that have nothing to do with the conversation (and usually in a conversation that you aren't even involved in).

 

seriously, what do you get out of constantly making one line shots at me (ones that you think are funny) and then running off? just try to not do that. thanks.

can't you just leave NSBB?

[17 Seconds]

can't you just put me on ignore and stop talking to me? seriously, you claim to hate me so much, yet you keep saying things to me.

[TruffleShuffle]

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/42127/defenseandfip2.jpg

 

:-))

[Geech]

I especially love that it's the one post he's ignored in the thread.

[17 Seconds]

ignored what? the graphic? i don't see how that says anything about how accurate uzr is for specific single players. i'm not sure i even understand what the point of that graphic is. i never said uzr is always wrong or that there's no truth in it. i said that i don't put any stock into it because of how unreliable it is when you're trying rate players.

 

do you guys believe jeter is a top 5 defender? that's an honest question.

Edited September 6, 2009 by 17 Seconds

[TruffleShuffle]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_regression

[17 Seconds]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_regression

 

i understand what the graph is.

 

i've seen you talk in the past about how bad jeter is defensively. so then why has jeter been in the top half of the league in uzr rankings the past 2 seasons?

Edited September 6, 2009 by 17 Seconds