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I have to say that the defensive metrics are pretty unison and consistent in their opinion of Theriot, aren't they?

Maybe i'm missing something, but if you feel that Theriot is truly a "terrible" or even significantly below average defender, then why would you point to the fact that multiple systems of defensive analysis which use multiple different methods of analysis all consistently come to the conclusion that Theriot lies between slightly below to slightly above average. Since several methods lie within a range higher than yours as to his ability, what do you mean by pointing it out? Are you changing your mind or am I missing part of your argument/opinion?

 

FWIW: Everyone knows I am a Theriot fan and based on what I see from him and what MULTIPLE metrics say, and partly due to bias, it is my belief that Theriot is an average defensive shortstop, no more no less.

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I have to say that the defensive metrics are pretty unison and consistent in their opinion of Theriot, aren't they?

Maybe i'm missing something, but if you feel that Theriot is truly a "terrible" or even significantly below average defender, then why would you point to the fact that multiple systems of defensive analysis which use multiple different methods of analysis all consistently come to the conclusion that Theriot lies between slightly below to slightly above average. Since several methods lie within a range higher than yours as to his ability, what do you mean by pointing it out? Are you changing your mind or am I missing part of your argument/opinion?

 

FWIW: Everyone knows I am a Theriot fan and based on what I see from him and what MULTIPLE metrics say, and partly due to bias, it is my belief that Theriot is an average defensive shortstop, no more no less.

It means that I lend the stats a little more credence than I had initially, because after looking at multiple systems they all say that he's average to slightly above average on a consistent basis.

 

My own feelings about it have been that he's a below average at SS, but not really awful there. However, I've bumped up my assessment to "slightly" below average after looking up the metrics.

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we need a shortstop. we can move theriot to 2b.

 

The problem with moving Theriot off short (and I am not a Theriot fan) is ... who replaces him? I mean, Theriot's actually improved defensively and was fairly solid, according to several metrics.

 

Furthermore, there aren't that many top of the order shortstops that are easily attainable.

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His defense at short is average at worst. Maybe if you want to stretch t, slightly below average. Under no definition is his defense "terrible".

 

seriously?

 

I don't like Theriot's defense either, but based on some defensive metrics, he's improved this year.

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Brian Roberts. If not, probably Jeff Baker and Mike Fontenot.

 

I don't anticipate Baltimore shopping Roberts this offseason. They missed the right opportunity, and coming off another solid year with the team loading up for 2010 and 2011 to make a push to .500 or better, with all their young arms up or nearly there, I think they'll want a veteran to lean on, particularly since some other less significant veterans are likely to be pushed off, and particularly since MI depth is a bit weak in that system.

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i still think the mets would demand a hell of a lot for reyes.

 

agreed. I don't see them moving Reyes in general - don't see a fit with us. Minaya got a reprieve on the season ... he has to make a push next year. How would trading Reyes help him? He'd have to get a ready, middle of the rotation starting pitcher. Add in their high upside chips at certain spots (although their system is weak overall) and not sure I see a match for the Cubs.

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His defense at short is average at worst. Maybe if you want to stretch t, slightly below average. Under no definition is his defense "terrible".

 

Agreed, Same with Jeter. :roll:

 

uzr has jeter as a top 5 shortstop this season!

 

Have you seen Jeter this year? Jeter's not making as many dumb plays as before, but the biggest difference? Mark Teixeira at first base is helping everyone in that infield, akin to how Derrek Lee helps Aramis Ramirez. I'm not saying Jeter is top 5 or whatever, but he's definitely been a better defensive player than in year's past. No, he still has poor range, but there's nothing you can do about Father Time. Now, his errant throws are getting caught, though.

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I hope everyone realizes any trade for Reyes will include Castro.

 

That's not 100% definite. We can only speak in hypotheticals, but they have a solid AA shortstop talent in Ruben Tejeda (or is it Tejada, I forget right now and too lazy to check). Not as talented as Castro, but an intriguing option nonetheless. They could still look to Castro, but I could also see them look for pitching ... if they decide to deal Reyes. I think they'll try to land Bay or Holliday this offseason.

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Alberto Callaspo for 2B!

 

Marshall + T. Thomas to K.C.

 

Theriot stays at SS until Castro is ready, if we did have the $$$ for Figgins, now we can allocate it elsewhere. Probably an average middle reliever!!!

 

And people think Bradley is a crazy ****. Callaspo is crazier and 100x less talented.

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The 1st step should be to keep Jeff Baker as the everyday 2B for the remainder of this season. I know, hes a *gasp* righty, but weve all had enough of Mike Fontenot and certainly Aaron Miles. Last year, Fontenot showed flashes of brilliance in a limited role, and as a result, we went right into the season assuming he was our starter and that was that. He couldnt possibly be any worse than a .280/.350/.475 line with 15-20 HR seemed to be the general consensus. Baker is showing similar flashes as Fontenot did last year, but it would be nice to see if he can keep it up as an everyday starter. If he can, well maybe hes our 2010 2B. If not, we can shop around in the offseason.
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I know this is highly unlikely but I would almost prefer to resign Derosa, trade Theriot and start Blanco at short stop. If they still want more speed and insist on platooning Fukudome than get a faster right handed center fielder. I think Riot could net a good reliever or couple of decent prospects and besides althought he has "grit" moving Theriot to second really will not help make us better if we can get a significant upgrade at short stop. Blanco brings tremendous D, still has some speed, and is left handed (there you go Jim). I just think it will be hard for the Cubs to upgrade at short without wanting to give up a lot. It will also be hard to get "faster" if they do not get a Reyes or Figgins, the outfield is old and slow.

 

Derow/Blanco as a fallback to Theriot/Figgins??? Figgins and Derosa fit the cubs because they can both play different positions when people are tired / hurt. They also allow the cubs to keep Fox and either Fonty or Baker on the bench and get them some AB's.

 

Hopefully we can upgrade at short but I think Hendry will target second base right away.

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I know this is highly unlikely but I would almost prefer to resign Derosa, trade Theriot and start Blanco at short stop. If they still want more speed and insist on platooning Fukudome than get a faster right handed center fielder. I think Riot could net a good reliever or couple of decent prospects and besides althought he has "grit" moving Theriot to second really will not help make us better if we can get a significant upgrade at short stop. Blanco brings tremendous D, still has some speed, and is left handed (there you go Jim). I just think it will be hard for the Cubs to upgrade at short without wanting to give up a lot. It will also be hard to get "faster" if they do not get a Reyes or Figgins, the outfield is old and slow.

 

Derow/Blanco as a fallback to Theriot/Figgins??? Figgins and Derosa fit the cubs because they can both play different positions when people are tired / hurt. They also allow the cubs to keep Fox and either Fonty or Baker on the bench and get them some AB's.

 

Hopefully we can upgrade at short but I think Hendry will target second base right away.

 

The problem with DeRosa at this point is that he'll likely command a 2-3 year deal and he's just too old for that. If we could get him on a 1-year, fairly cheap deal I might be in favor of it. But that's unlikely.

 

And Theriot is solid enough offensively that if you can minimize his defensive deficiencies (as moving him to second would) he becomes even more valuable. I wouldn't give him a long term deal for big money, but while he's cheap he's providing solid production.

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Theriot is *not* hurting the team defensively, and moving him to second will expose his bat even more. National league 2nd basemen hit .269/.337/.409 this year whereas shortstops hit .266/.324/.393. Theriot's .286/.334/.381 doesn't look good at either spot, but it's better at short.
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Theriot is *not* hurting the team defensively, and moving him to second will expose his bat even more. National league 2nd basemen hit .269/.337/.409 this year whereas shortstops hit .266/.324/.393. Theriot's .286/.334/.381 doesn't look good at either spot, but it's better at short.

 

I'm not arguing that Theriot is hurting the team defensively, just that his deficiencies (range, arm) are better hidden at second. As a SS he's anywhere from slightly below average to slightly above average. Because of his skillset, as a second baseman he'd likely be that much better defensively.

 

Offensively, I actually didn't realize the difference between second basemen and shortstops was that dramatic this year.

 

My main reason for considering moving Theriot to second, though, is that it allows you to go after an upgrade at shortstop. If the right player comes along and is available (Jose Reyes for instance), I'd move Theriot to second. I'm just trying not to further limit the already limited options this team has to rebuild.

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if baker can keep up his .424 BABIP as a cub, i predict he'll be a really good player.

What can I say, the little krauts got me hooked. On one hand, you have Fontenot who shined in a limited role, but then couldnt cut it as an everyday player. On the other hand, you have DeRosa, who was never much with the bat during his days as a uility player, but when given the chance to be an everyday player, he made it worth the while. I guess we'll have to wait and see which one Baker is, if either.

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Offensively, I actually didn't realize the difference between second basemen and shortstops was that dramatic this year.

 

it's not, really. 13 points of OBP and 16 points of SLG. there's certainly a difference and theriot's bat doesn't play quite as well at 2B as SS, but it's not like you're trying to stick him at 1B or corner OF.

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Offensively, I actually didn't realize the difference between second basemen and shortstops was that dramatic this year.

 

it's not, really. 13 points of OBP and 16 points of SLG. there's certainly a difference and theriot's bat doesn't play quite as well at 2B as SS, but it's not like you're trying to stick him at 1B or corner OF.

 

It's more than I thought, but it's also not enough of a difference to completely rule out moving him if there's a superior player who can be acquired who plays a better SS.

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