Harden/Heilman claimed on waivers (neither traded)

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Why do teams think they can just offer scraps for elite starting pitchers?

 

Negotiating tactics and such brilliant past decisions as Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir.

Damn you, Steve Phillips!

[weis21]

wasn't Phillips, etc.

[Guest]

from that same article:

The Cubs would like one or two top prospects for Harden, but the Twins believe that is too steep a price without having Harden signed long term. Chances of that happening in the next two days seem unlikely.

 

Ridiculous.

 

I'd much rather take either the two picks or have Harden stick around for at least another year from accepting arbitration instead of trading him to the Twins just for the sake of trading him.

 

If they offer a great package that is better than two picks, sure, then by all means go for it.

[RedFlash]

from that same article:

The Cubs would like one or two top prospects for Harden, but the Twins believe that is too steep a price without having Harden signed long term. Chances of that happening in the next two days seem unlikely.

 

Ridiculous.

 

I'd much rather take either the two picks or have Harden stick around for at least another year from accepting arbitration instead of trading him to the Twins just for the sake of trading him.

 

If they offer a great package that is better than two picks, sure, then by all means go for it.

 

Agreed. And like O_O suggestion I would mind either Hicks or Revere as part of the package. The Cubs should not have to give Harden up to the Twins just because Minnesota wants to placate the two franchise players.

[Little Slide Rooter]

from that same article:

The Cubs would like one or two top prospects for Harden, but the Twins believe that is too steep a price without having Harden signed long term. Chances of that happening in the next two days seem unlikely.

 

Ridiculous.

 

I'd much rather take either the two picks or have Harden stick around for at least another year from accepting arbitration instead of trading him to the Twins just for the sake of trading him.

 

If they offer a great package that is better than two picks, sure, then by all means go for it.

 

Agreed. And like O_O suggestion I would mind either Hicks or Revere as part of the package. The Cubs should not have to give Harden up to the Twins just because Minnesota wants to placate the two franchise players.

 

Besides, Id rather Mauer decide that he doesnt want to stay in Minnesota so we can sign him in '11. Why should we helpt their cause and get nothing worth while in return.

[Iceblink]

IMO the Cubs hold all of the cards and should squeeze the Twins for everything they can get. After looking at the Twins prospect lists, they seem to be pretty thin at the top.

 

They're pretty thin throughout, although they have a few intriguing guys. I'd give some thought to a package built around Revere or Hicks in exchange for Harden.

 

I was looking at their list of prospects and Revere was my first choice, though he sounds a bit Juan Pierre-ish. Speed, contact, no arm...and Revere supposedly isn't a great defender yet. Still, he could be a real, cheap leadoff hitter. Given how much money we'll have tied up in average players, cheap and productive would be nice.

 

A nice (preseason) run down of their prospects from a fan:

http://joshsopinion.blogspot.com/2009/02/top-50-twins-prospects-2009-1-aaron.html

 

He mentions that Revere might be a better fit at 2B and played there in HS. That'd fit us just as well as a CFer would.

[Iceblink]

Oh, and I don't get the trade then resign method that a lot of columnists are proposing. You'd trade him and get a prospect or two, then give up two draft picks to resign him? If that was really a consideration, then just keep him and resign him...though (unless we find another Hendry to take some of our overpaid, aging "stars") there's got to be teams that will have more money to offer.

[TruffleShuffle]

revere is a weird player... great contact skills and speed but doesn't walk much (not that it matters, with his lack of power most of those walks would evaporate in the big leagues) and no power (the doubles/triples come from grounders down the line and a few balls he slashes into the gaps). if he plays like florida juan pierre then cool; if he plays like cubs juan pierre then yuck.

[Guest]

Oh, and I don't get the trade then resign method that a lot of columnists are proposing. You'd trade him and get a prospect or two, then give up two draft picks to resign him? If that was really a consideration, then just keep him and resign him...though (unless we find another Hendry to take some of our overpaid, aging "stars") there's got to be teams that will have more money to offer.

Actually, the team losing the players gets two draft picks, but the team that signs him only loses one.

 

The second pick is a supplemental first round pick that comes between the first and second rounds.

[Guest]

Oh, and I'm not a fan of Revere or most anyone else in the Twins system. I'd rather have the picks.

[Rob]

I'd consider something if Hicks was on the table. But I doubt he is and I sincerely doubt anything gets done...

[Little Slide Rooter]

We really need Harden next year. hes the closest thing we have to an ace. Lilly is a great number 2 guy, and Zambrano is just as likely to give up 5 runs through 4 innings as he is to pitch a shutout.

 

I would have to think that before making a decison on what to do with Harden that they'll discuss with his people what it will take to sign him to an extension, and even if they cant, theyd better make sure they're getting the equivelent of the 2 draft picks wed get for him if not more.

[Outshined_One]

I'd consider something if Hicks was on the table. But I doubt he is and I sincerely doubt anything gets done...

 

I like Hicks better than Revere, although I think Revere has the potential to be a cheap and effective leadoff option in CF two or three years down the road. I wouldn't do Harden for Revere straight up, but I wouldn't mind seeing Revere as part of a package for Harden.

[Little Slide Rooter]

IMHO, the arguement for keeping Harden is much stronger than that to trade him. At this point, despite the dreadful play of the last 3 weeks or so, were 5.5 games out of that Wild Card.granted, wed be a lot more optimistic about that if there were 1 or 2 teams ahead of us instead of 4, but theres still a chance. Not a great chance, but a chance none the less. While most of the fan base has conceeded that we wont be in the playoffs, hopefully the team feels theres still a chance. If you trade Harden, our best pitcher for the 2nd half, that slim chance gets slimmer. Not only that, but what kind of message does it send to the players who feel they still have a shot? It says back up the truck. also, you lose the draft picks that wed get if we couldnt resign Harden. Now are whatever middle of the line prospects we could get from the Twins worth not only the draft picks but the shred of hope? I think not.

 

However, the 1 arguement for trading him is that I cant remember the last time the non waiver deadline came around, and not only were we technically sellers, but we had a player that someone else really wanted and needed. We could really juice the Twins for a lot more than Hardens worth. Dare I say a better package than we got him for?

 

As for Heilman, the Giants are in a very good position to make the playoffs, so why would the want to jeopradize it by aquring Heilman?

[Post Count Padder]

If we could get something like Hicks and Hunt from the Twins, I may be OK for trading him. But I doubt the Twins make a deal like that and therefore I see no reason to deal him. At worst, we offer arby, let him walk and take the picks.

[Tryptamine]

If I'm Hendry I'm asking for Revere, Chris Parmelee and Deolis Guerra. If the Twins don't like it then taking the picks is fine with me.

[Outshined_One]

If we could get something like Hicks and Hunt from the Twins, I may be OK for trading him. But I doubt the Twins make a deal like that and therefore I see no reason to deal him. At worst, we offer arby, let him walk and take the picks.

 

Shooter Hunt

 

Even as a throw-in, I'd have second thoughts.

[Tryptamine]

If we could get something like Hicks and Hunt from the Twins, I may be OK for trading him. But I doubt the Twins make a deal like that and therefore I see no reason to deal him. At worst, we offer arby, let him walk and take the picks.

 

Shooter Hunt

 

Even as a throw-in, I'd have second thoughts.

 

Almost 2 walks an inning; that's pretty amazing. I'll pass on that.

[Guest]

I also am not a Ben Revere fan; I would prefer Hicks. All things considered, I'd just offer arbitration this offseason.

[CUBZ99]

I also am not a Ben Revere fan; I would prefer Hicks. All things considered, I'd just offer arbitration this offseason.

 

The Twins system is very thin, but Revere and Hicks would be a good return for a month of Harden, and I would do the trade. Revere may never flash big power, but he makes a lot of contact and gets on base at a good clip. Looking at the last few drafts, it seems unrealistic that the Cubs would get better value than those two.

[CUBZ99]

Speculation from Phil Rogers:

 

Hendry has set a high asking price for the guy he acquired from Oakland a little more than 13 months ago, reportedly seeking two solid prospects -- perhaps relievers Anthony Slama and Rob Delaney?

 

I hope that Hendry is shooting higher than two relief prospects. BTW if that is all Hendry is asking for, Twins would be idiots to balk at that.

 

edit: Slama and Delaney are definitely interesting prospects. Nice K rates and Delaney has a minor league career 0.98 Whip over 4 seasons.

Edited August 31, 2009 by CUBZ99

[Guest]

Guys like Revere are pretty common. And if Hicks were in our system most would be calling him a bust at this point.

 

The Twins have nothing that would lead me to give up Harden.

[Tryptamine]

Guys like Revere are pretty common. And if Hicks were in our system most would be calling him a bust at this point.

 

The Twins have nothing that would lead me to give up Harden.

 

Angel Morales looks pretty intriguing. I'd be pretty thrilled to net him Parmelee and maybe Slama. I don't think the Twins have any particularly outstanding prospects, but there's a few that are interesting.

[toonsterwu]

Not sure if I offered my 2 cents on this -

 

Let Heilman go. Chances of Aaron H being around next year? Not much. Save the money and call it a day.

 

As for Harden, only do it if you get a good deal. Rogers speculated Slama/Delaney. Two solid prospects, but I wouldn't do that deal, as both are pen arm projections, and more middle relief/setup variety than setup/closer variety. A poster on BCB claims Rene Tosoni/BJ Hermsen. That's intriguing, but only if you buy Tosoni's power development. Hermsen has excellent upside, but that can't anchor the deal. I'd say no to a Tosoni/Hermsen as well. Unless the Twins offered a top prospect (Revere, Hicks, Bromberg, Robertson come to mind), I wouldn't do the deal (and I don't see them offering key big league talent - it would defeat the purpose of adding Harden). Thing is, I doubt they would offer a top talent for a 5 week rental, so really, I'd rather offer arb and either keep him for 1 year, or take the picks and move on.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I know what Rosenthal says should be taken with a grain of salt, but he was on The Score this morning talking about the Harden situation, and says that he doesnt think that the Cubs have any interest in resigning Harden long term and maybe not offer him arbitration.