ESPN: Cedeno & Olson Traded for Heilman (P. 4)

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Last three seasons

 

Batters faced: 356, 352, 356

Home runs: 5, 8, 10

Walks: 28, 20, 46

K's: 73, 63, 80

 

His K's shot up, but so did his BBs and HRs, which to me says control problems.

 

Fangraphs doesn't show any drop in average velocity, but for some reason he started throwing his slider a bunch at the expense of his changeup, but I don't know if that's for real or an artifact of the way the pitches are charted.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1751&position=P#advanced

 

 

Undiscovered elbow injury?

[Outshined_One]

I wonder if this means Marshall is likely to go in a potential Peavy trade and Hendry sees Heilman filling in for Marshall as the swingman and guy to back up Harden

 

That's exactly my thought on this potential deal. That, or the Padres may prefer taking Heilman instead of Marshall in a Peavy deal.

[cubbinalltheway]

I wonder if this means Marshall is likely to go in a potential Peavy trade and Hendry sees Heilman filling in for Marshall as the swingman and guy to back up Harden

 

That's exactly my thought on this potential deal. That, or the Padres may prefer taking Heilman instead of Marshall in a Peavy deal.

it's gotta be one of the two. the cubs certainly have enough pitching depth as it is. there's no reason to add heilman and not make a corresponding move.

[17 Seconds]

I wonder if this means Marshall is likely to go in a potential Peavy trade and Hendry sees Heilman filling in for Marshall as the swingman and guy to back up Harden

 

That's exactly my thought on this potential deal. That, or the Padres may prefer taking Heilman instead of Marshall in a Peavy deal.

it's gotta be one of the two. the cubs certainly have enough pitching depth as it is. there's no reason to add heilman and not make a corresponding move.

 

I don't know if they have all that much pitching depth as it is.

[jersey cubs fan]

I wonder if this means Marshall is likely to go in a potential Peavy trade and Hendry sees Heilman filling in for Marshall as the swingman and guy to back up Harden

 

That's exactly my thought on this potential deal. That, or the Padres may prefer taking Heilman instead of Marshall in a Peavy deal.

it's gotta be one of the two. the cubs certainly have enough pitching depth as it is. there's no reason to add heilman and not make a corresponding move.

 

I don't know if they have all that much pitching depth as it is.

 

They have a whole bunch of guys with major league experience, but I think it's more of a quantity thing than a quality thing. And Hendry has never been shy about stockpiling pitching depth.

[BigbadB]

I wonder if this means Marshall is likely to go in a potential Peavy trade and Hendry sees Heilman filling in for Marshall as the swingman and guy to back up Harden

 

That's exactly my thought on this potential deal. That, or the Padres may prefer taking Heilman instead of Marshall in a Peavy deal.

it's gotta be one of the two. the cubs certainly have enough pitching depth as it is. there's no reason to add heilman and not make a corresponding move.

 

I don't know if they have all that much pitching depth as it is.

 

I'd say they have an overabundance if they make this move. If a Peavy deal is in the works and actually happens, then they would take a pretty big hit to the pitching staff.

 

Without Peavy:

Zambrano, Harden, Dempster, Lilly, Marshall

 

Pen:

Olson, Heilman*, Gaudin, Wuertz, Vizcaino, Guzman, Marmol, Gregg, Samardzija, Cotts, Hill, Hart, Ascanio.

[17 Seconds]

I wonder if this means Marshall is likely to go in a potential Peavy trade and Hendry sees Heilman filling in for Marshall as the swingman and guy to back up Harden

 

That's exactly my thought on this potential deal. That, or the Padres may prefer taking Heilman instead of Marshall in a Peavy deal.

it's gotta be one of the two. the cubs certainly have enough pitching depth as it is. there's no reason to add heilman and not make a corresponding move.

 

I don't know if they have all that much pitching depth as it is.

 

I'd say they have an overabundance if they make this move. If a Peavy deal is in the works and actually happens, then they would take a pretty big hit to the pitching staff.

 

Without Peavy:

Zambrano, Harden, Dempster, Lilly, Marshall

 

Pen:

Olson, Heilman*, Gaudin, Wuertz, Vizcaino, Guzman, Marmol, Gregg, Samardzija, Cotts, Hill, Hart, Ascanio.

 

But how many of those guys are actually decent?

[ConstableRabbit]

Are we sure Heilman wouldn't be going in the deal? It seems to un-Cubs like to get rid of lefties. If we trade Marshall and Olson in the Peavy deal, it would leave Cotts as the only LHP in the bullpen.

[cubbinalltheway]

I wonder if this means Marshall is likely to go in a potential Peavy trade and Hendry sees Heilman filling in for Marshall as the swingman and guy to back up Harden

 

That's exactly my thought on this potential deal. That, or the Padres may prefer taking Heilman instead of Marshall in a Peavy deal.

it's gotta be one of the two. the cubs certainly have enough pitching depth as it is. there's no reason to add heilman and not make a corresponding move.

 

I don't know if they have all that much pitching depth as it is.

 

I'd say they have an overabundance if they make this move. If a Peavy deal is in the works and actually happens, then they would take a pretty big hit to the pitching staff.

 

Without Peavy:

Zambrano, Harden, Dempster, Lilly, Marshall

 

Pen:

Olson, Heilman*, Gaudin, Wuertz, Vizcaino, Guzman, Marmol, Gregg, Samardzija, Cotts, Hill, Hart, Ascanio.

 

But how many of those guys are actually decent?

decent enough to be the 5th starter? i'd say quite a few of them. olson, heilman, marshall, guzman, shark, at least.

[17 Seconds]

I wonder if this means Marshall is likely to go in a potential Peavy trade and Hendry sees Heilman filling in for Marshall as the swingman and guy to back up Harden

 

That's exactly my thought on this potential deal. That, or the Padres may prefer taking Heilman instead of Marshall in a Peavy deal.

it's gotta be one of the two. the cubs certainly have enough pitching depth as it is. there's no reason to add heilman and not make a corresponding move.

 

I don't know if they have all that much pitching depth as it is.

 

I'd say they have an overabundance if they make this move. If a Peavy deal is in the works and actually happens, then they would take a pretty big hit to the pitching staff.

 

Without Peavy:

Zambrano, Harden, Dempster, Lilly, Marshall

 

Pen:

Olson, Heilman*, Gaudin, Wuertz, Vizcaino, Guzman, Marmol, Gregg, Samardzija, Cotts, Hill, Hart, Ascanio.

 

But how many of those guys are actually decent?

decent enough to be the 5th starter? i'd say quite a few of them. olson, heilman, marshall, guzman, shark, at least.

 

We have no idea if Olson is good enough. He certainly wasn't good enough last season and we can't just count on the "changing leagues" stuff to suddenly make him good right away. I'm not sold on Samardzija, and we can't count on Guzman for anything. Plus Heilman has never been good as a starter.

[jersey cubs fan]

I wonder if this means Marshall is likely to go in a potential Peavy trade and Hendry sees Heilman filling in for Marshall as the swingman and guy to back up Harden

 

That's exactly my thought on this potential deal. That, or the Padres may prefer taking Heilman instead of Marshall in a Peavy deal.

it's gotta be one of the two. the cubs certainly have enough pitching depth as it is. there's no reason to add heilman and not make a corresponding move.

 

I don't know if they have all that much pitching depth as it is.

 

I'd say they have an overabundance if they make this move. If a Peavy deal is in the works and actually happens, then they would take a pretty big hit to the pitching staff.

 

Without Peavy:

Zambrano, Harden, Dempster, Lilly, Marshall

 

Pen:

Olson, Heilman*, Gaudin, Wuertz, Vizcaino, Guzman, Marmol, Gregg, Samardzija, Cotts, Hill, Hart, Ascanio.

 

But how many of those guys are actually decent?

 

I think the bolded ones are at least decent, with Marmol obviously much more than that. Samardzija is probably starting in Iowa and his level of decency can be debated. The rest of them are either shaky or need to show a good bit more than they have so far.

[cubbinalltheway]

I wonder if this means Marshall is likely to go in a potential Peavy trade and Hendry sees Heilman filling in for Marshall as the swingman and guy to back up Harden

 

That's exactly my thought on this potential deal. That, or the Padres may prefer taking Heilman instead of Marshall in a Peavy deal.

it's gotta be one of the two. the cubs certainly have enough pitching depth as it is. there's no reason to add heilman and not make a corresponding move.

 

I don't know if they have all that much pitching depth as it is.

 

I'd say they have an overabundance if they make this move. If a Peavy deal is in the works and actually happens, then they would take a pretty big hit to the pitching staff.

 

Without Peavy:

Zambrano, Harden, Dempster, Lilly, Marshall

 

Pen:

Olson, Heilman*, Gaudin, Wuertz, Vizcaino, Guzman, Marmol, Gregg, Samardzija, Cotts, Hill, Hart, Ascanio.

 

But how many of those guys are actually decent?

decent enough to be the 5th starter? i'd say quite a few of them. olson, heilman, marshall, guzman, shark, at least.

 

We have no idea if Olson is good enough. He certainly wasn't good enough last season and we can't just count on the "changing leagues" stuff to suddenly make him good right away. I'm not sold on Samardzija, and we can't count on Guzman for anything. Plus Heilman has never been good as a starter.

but again, we're talking about the 5th starter. if he bombs, you replace him with the next candidate. 5th starters typically aren't good bets to be productive.

[jersey cubs fan]

but again, we're talking about the 5th starter. if he bombs, you replace him with the next candidate. 5th starters typically aren't good bets to be productive.

 

On the list stated above, we're talking about relievers and swingmen, right?

[17 Seconds]

But we're talking about depth that is actually good, not depth with crappy players. If Zambrano gets hurt during a period where Harden is also out,how are we looking? Not only is our rotation a mess, but the bullpen is weakened significantly because you're taking guys from that to replace (or attempt to replace) the injured starters.

 

I'd say right with Heilman we'd have pretty decent depth but not "plenty"

[Hairyducked Idiot]

but again, we're talking about the 5th starter. if he bombs, you replace him with the next candidate. 5th starters typically aren't good bets to be productive.

 

The Cubs were 24-20 in games started by Jason Marquis, Rich Hill, or Sean Gallagher last season. You start replacing the level of production we got from those guys to any random schmoe, you can easily drop a half-dozen games in the standings.

[Outshined_One]

Are we sure Heilman wouldn't be going in the deal? It seems to un-Cubs like to get rid of lefties. If we trade Marshall and Olson in the Peavy deal, it would leave Cotts as the only LHP in the bullpen.

 

Considering this team goes ga-ga over handedness, that's a good point. There aren't many candidates down in the minors who could immediately step in and be an effective lefty out of the pen, either.

[BigbadB]

Whoops. I forgot to add Chad Fox.

 

I didn't think we were discussing 5th starter. I thought we were talking about an overabundance of pitching in general.

 

Whether these guys are good or bad, most still have 40 man roster spots, so they are with the team.

 

I think if Peavy gets traded, the overabundance of pitching is fixed.

[jersey cubs fan]

But we're talking about depth that is actually good, not depth with crappy players. If Zambrano gets hurt during a period where Harden is also out,how are we looking? Not only is our rotation a mess, but the bullpen is weakened significantly because you're taking guys from that to replace (or attempt to replace) the injured starters.

 

I'd say right with Heilman we'd have pretty decent depth but not "plenty"

 

Well, sometimes there's not a lot you can do about replacing 2 Cy Young caliber pitchers. You are going to struggle. Under that scenario, the Cubs would probably be forced to start Gaudin and Heilman, who are probably as good as most replacement possibilities you'd be able to fine. If Samardzija has a good spring and starts well in AAA, he could fill that role pretty well.

[Post Count Padder]

Heilman wasn't great last year but I'd take him in a heartbeat if it's just Cedeno and a middle-tier minor leaguer.

[RammyFanny]

Official:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9143260/Sources:-Cubs-land-Heilman-from-Mariners

Cedeno + MILB P.

[jersey cubs fan]

Whoops. I forgot to add Chad Fox.

 

I didn't think we were discussing 5th starter. I thought we were talking about an overabundance of pitching in general.

 

Whether these guys are good or bad, most still have 40 man roster spots, so they are with the team.

 

I think if Peavy gets traded, the overabundance of pitching is fixed.

 

I don't really think the "overabundance" is a problem that needs fixing, is it? Hill is probably gone. Samardzija is in AAA, with Hart and Ascanio (I assume they have options). The spare parts are probably Vizcaino and Guzman (he's out of options now, isn't he?). If Olson has options he can be sent down if they want to keep one of those guys.

[nolanwood]

But we're talking about depth that is actually good, not depth with crappy players. If Zambrano gets hurt during a period where Harden is also out,how are we looking? Not only is our rotation a mess, but the bullpen is weakened significantly because you're taking guys from that to replace (or attempt to replace) the injured starters.

 

I'd say right with Heilman we'd have pretty decent depth but not "plenty"

 

How do the Cardinals look without Carp and Wainwright? How about the Mets without Santana and Maine?

[cubsfan26]

Official:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9143260/Sources:-Cubs-land-Heilman-from-Mariners

Cedeno + MILB P.

 

 

Awesome, depending on how that minor league pitcher is.

[nilodnayr]

Heilman, Marshall, Olson, Gaudin, and Samardzija (and who knows about Guzman) are all fine 5th starters on an average team.

 

If you have to have more than one of them in the rotation that could be a problem, but as far as 5th startes go, we would have quite a glut.

 

FWIW, Heilman is a guy that Hendy has been after for quite a while so he definitely could be staying even if we get Peavy.

[17 Seconds]

But we're talking about depth that is actually good, not depth with crappy players. If Zambrano gets hurt during a period where Harden is also out,how are we looking? Not only is our rotation a mess, but the bullpen is weakened significantly because you're taking guys from that to replace (or attempt to replace) the injured starters.

 

I'd say right with Heilman we'd have pretty decent depth but not "plenty"

 

How do the Cardinals look without Carp and Wainwright? How about the Mets without Santana and Maine?

 

The difference is that Zambrano and Harden getting hurt is much more likely than most teams 1/2 starters. Did Santana have shoulder problems last year? Is Maine a lock to miss significant time? And the Cards were without Carp all last year and they still won 86 games.