2009 NFL Draft Thread

[Soul]

Anyone want to tell me how many more players the Raiders overdrafted today? As long as it's less then yesterday, I guess it was a successful second day.

 

I'm also going to guess that the Raiders are one of the biggest losers (if not the biggest) of the draft.

 

I thought Matt Shaughnessy went a round too early, but otherwise no major overdrafts on day 2. Getting Louis Murphy in round 4 was a great value, I thought.

 

Mel Kiper did say he talked to one team that thought Michael Mitchell was a 3rd round pick and will be a pro bowler for the Raiders. From what I've heard in this thread, that was likely the Bears.

 

It's a little disconcerting to know that Angelo was ready to reach with the Raiders on Mitchell, but who knows? Kiper isn't the end-all, be-all of draft analysis, much as ESPN would like us to think so. There have been plenty of picks that he thought were bad that turned out good. Maybe Mitchell turns out OK. Still, it can't be seen as a value pick at all. It's a reach -- but sometimes even reaches work out.

[dew1679666265]

Best 5 drafts in order, in my opinion:

 

1. Patriots - expected with all the picks they had

2. Falcons - Great top of the draft and filled needs throughout

3. Bears - Didn't have a first rounder obviously, but got second round value with both 3rd round picks and got some nice steals late

4. Giants - Surprisingly good talent for drafting late in nearly every round. Nicks and Barden were fantastic picks.

5. Bengals - Got three of the most talented players in the draft with picks 6, 38 and 70. Three 1st to second round talents.

 

Worst 4 drafts, in order, in my opinion:

 

1. Raiders - Two major reaches early, a lesser reach after that and one very good value.

2. Bucs - Traded up for a high risk, high reward QB with other needs in place.

3. Broncos - Much like the Cutler fiasco, focused on offense for some reason. Knowshon is a great player, but they had to go defense more often.

4. Jets - Not on the brink of a Super Bowl, but they traded a 2nd round pick and a couple useful players (one young, solid guy in Elam) for a pretty good QB.

[dew1679666265]

Anyone want to tell me how many more players the Raiders overdrafted today? As long as it's less then yesterday, I guess it was a successful second day.

 

I'm also going to guess that the Raiders are one of the biggest losers (if not the biggest) of the draft.

 

I thought Matt Shaughnessy went a round too early, but otherwise no major overdrafts on day 2. Getting Louis Murphy in round 4 was a great value, I thought.

 

Mel Kiper did say he talked to one team that thought Michael Mitchell was a 3rd round pick and will be a pro bowler for the Raiders. From what I've heard in this thread, that was likely the Bears.

 

It's a little disconcerting to know that Angelo was ready to reach with the Raiders on Mitchell, but who knows? Kiper isn't the end-all, be-all of draft analysis, much as ESPN would like us to think so. There have been plenty of picks that he thought were bad that turned out good. Maybe Mitchell turns out OK. Still, it can't be seen as a value pick at all. It's a reach -- but sometimes even reaches work out.

 

Kiper actually said that same thing on Mike and Mike this morning. He said he talked to numerous GMs after the draft about Mitchell and most had him in the late rounds or as an UDFA. The Raiders and the other unnamed team were the only ones with a high grade on him.

[Soul]

Anyone want to tell me how many more players the Raiders overdrafted today? As long as it's less then yesterday, I guess it was a successful second day.

 

I'm also going to guess that the Raiders are one of the biggest losers (if not the biggest) of the draft.

 

I thought Matt Shaughnessy went a round too early, but otherwise no major overdrafts on day 2. Getting Louis Murphy in round 4 was a great value, I thought.

 

Mel Kiper did say he talked to one team that thought Michael Mitchell was a 3rd round pick and will be a pro bowler for the Raiders. From what I've heard in this thread, that was likely the Bears.

 

It's a little disconcerting to know that Angelo was ready to reach with the Raiders on Mitchell, but who knows? Kiper isn't the end-all, be-all of draft analysis, much as ESPN would like us to think so. There have been plenty of picks that he thought were bad that turned out good. Maybe Mitchell turns out OK. Still, it can't be seen as a value pick at all. It's a reach -- but sometimes even reaches work out.

 

Kiper actually said that same thing on Mike and Mike this morning. He said he talked to numerous GMs after the draft about Mitchell and most had him in the late rounds or as an UDFA. The Raiders and the other unnamed team were the only ones with a high grade on him.

 

I heard him. He also said that if 2 teams had him on their boards, then maybe it wasn't so bad. There are way worse draft GMs than Angelo. If he had him on his board I don't think you can just dismiss the kid out of hand. Especially on the defensive side of the ball, where Angelo has a decent draft track record.

[jersey cubs fan]

I like what the Eagles did in this draft. With all the picks, I wasn't that impressed with New England's haul.

 

The Jets got the guy they were looking for, and they took the RB I thought they would try and take in the 3rd. What I don't get is why they traded up for Greene. They are a pretty decent team, whose QB screwed them big time last year. If they got their franchise QB, and a RB who can contribute for the next 5 years, then I think they live with the lack of depth picks and prepare to contend for the division in 2010.

[jersey cubs fan]

While I wouldn't be surprised if Angelo was the GM who was going to overdraft that safety, because overdrafting defensive players is what he specializes in, I don't think it's true. About 5 or 6 picks before the Bears selected there were 3-4 names I thought they'd take, and when each of them went, trading down was fully expected. I think it was Robiskie and the defensive ends, but I don't think it was that safety.

[sneakypower]

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2009/04/2009-undrafted-free-agent-signings-list.html

 

I like Simmons a lot, I think he can make the team over Ruvell Martin. I think everyone knew that Sutton could've been a mid-round pick if he could stay healthy. And I absolutely love that we signed Willie Williams (former #1 overall defensive player in the country).

http://deadspin.com/5060218/the-ballad-of-willie-williams

 

I was like, `Take us to Red Lobster or something.' That's when I pretty much made up my mind.

[dew1679666265]

I like what the Eagles did in this draft. With all the picks, I wasn't that impressed with New England's haul.

 

The Jets got the guy they were looking for, and they took the RB I thought they would try and take in the 3rd. What I don't get is why they traded up for Greene. They are a pretty decent team, whose QB screwed them big time last year. If they got their franchise QB, and a RB who can contribute for the next 5 years, then I think they live with the lack of depth picks and prepare to contend for the division in 2010.

 

Yeah, the Eagles just barely missed my top 5. Lions would have been there as well if they would have taken Oher instead of Pettigrew.

 

And I agree with you that the Jets did the right thing if Sanchez develops into a franchise QB. But I didn't see either of these QBs as guys you give up multiple picks to get. They're smarter than me, though, so we'll see if they're right on him.

[Soul]

While I wouldn't be surprised if Angelo was the GM who was going to overdraft that safety, because overdrafting defensive players is what he specializes in, I don't think it's true. About 5 or 6 picks before the Bears selected there were 3-4 names I thought they'd take, and when each of them went, trading down was fully expected. I think it was Robiskie and the defensive ends, but I don't think it was that safety.

 

I thought that might be the case, but Haugh's source was Mitchell, who said Angelo had called him and said the Bears were going to take him. So unless he's not telling the truth, it looks like Angelo was ready to use that pick on Mitchell.

[Tracer Bullet]

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2009/04/2009-undrafted-free-agent-signings-list.html

 

I like Simmons a lot, I think he can make the team over Ruvell Martin. I think everyone knew that Sutton could've been a mid-round pick if he could stay healthy. And I absolutely love that we signed Willie Williams (former #1 overall defensive player in the country).

http://deadspin.com/5060218/the-ballad-of-willie-williams

 

I was like, `Take us to Red Lobster or something.' That's when I pretty much made up my mind.

 

why would you put a lonely 18-year-old up in a hotel room with a jacuzzi on the balcony?

 

what's that? oh, really? how many? nm

[jersey cubs fan]

While I wouldn't be surprised if Angelo was the GM who was going to overdraft that safety, because overdrafting defensive players is what he specializes in, I don't think it's true. About 5 or 6 picks before the Bears selected there were 3-4 names I thought they'd take, and when each of them went, trading down was fully expected. I think it was Robiskie and the defensive ends, but I don't think it was that safety.

 

I thought that might be the case, but Haugh's source was Mitchell, who said Angelo had called him and said the Bears were going to take him. So unless he's not telling the truth, it looks like Angelo was ready to use that pick on Mitchell.

 

Going to take him, but when? These players aren't very smart people, and they are in a fog on draft day. It's like the game phone tree, where Angelo telling him he might be interested in taking him in the draft being interpreted as Angelo is going to draft me with his first pick. They have an interest in defending their own dignity, none of them want to be the guy that nobody had interest in drafting. Most of them insist they should have been taken earlier.

 

It's certainly possible, given Angelo's history. He's overdrafted before, but generally speaking he takes guys a round or two earlier than most gurus had them going. He doesn't take guys in the second that most people didn't think would be drafted.

[Soul]

While I wouldn't be surprised if Angelo was the GM who was going to overdraft that safety, because overdrafting defensive players is what he specializes in, I don't think it's true. About 5 or 6 picks before the Bears selected there were 3-4 names I thought they'd take, and when each of them went, trading down was fully expected. I think it was Robiskie and the defensive ends, but I don't think it was that safety.

 

I thought that might be the case, but Haugh's source was Mitchell, who said Angelo had called him and said the Bears were going to take him. So unless he's not telling the truth, it looks like Angelo was ready to use that pick on Mitchell.

 

Going to take him, but when? These players aren't very smart people, and they are in a fog on draft day. It's like the game phone tree, where Angelo telling him he might be interested in taking him in the draft being interpreted as Angelo is going to draft me with his first pick. They have an interest in defending their own dignity, none of them want to be the guy that nobody had interest in drafting. Most of them insist they should have been taken earlier.

 

It's certainly possible, given Angelo's history. He's overdrafted before, but generally speaking he takes guys a round or two earlier than most gurus had them going. He doesn't take guys in the second that most people didn't think would be drafted.

That's true, he could have been mistaken about what Jerry really meant.

[brinoch]

It could be that Angelo was going to take him later in the draft -- knowing that virtually no other team had in interest in him. It doesn't mean that Angelo was definitely going to take him in the second.

[rawaction]

Best 5 drafts in order, in my opinion:

 

1. Patriots - expected with all the picks they had

2. Falcons - Great top of the draft and filled needs throughout

3. Bears - Didn't have a first rounder obviously, but got second round value with both 3rd round picks and got some nice steals late

4. Giants - Surprisingly good talent for drafting late in nearly every round. Nicks and Barden were fantastic picks.

5. Bengals - Got three of the most talented players in the draft with picks 6, 38 and 70. Three 1st to second round talents.

 

Worst 4 drafts, in order, in my opinion:

 

1. Raiders - Two major reaches early, a lesser reach after that and one very good value.

2. Bucs - Traded up for a high risk, high reward QB with other needs in place.

3. Broncos - Much like the Cutler fiasco, focused on offense for some reason. Knowshon is a great player, but they had to go defense more often.

4. Jets - Not on the brink of a Super Bowl, but they traded a 2nd round pick and a couple useful players (one young, solid guy in Elam) for a pretty good QB.

 

Best 3 drafts

 

1. Eagles- biggest needs were WR, RB, TE, and CB. Got the 2nd best WR, 3rd best RB (IMO, better than Beanie), and maybe the 3rd/4th best TE. Harris at CB will work to get on the field. He was a 4-year starter at VT. Tupou and Gibson are sleepers who could be a good 3rd T and 3rd WR respectively.

 

2. Bengals- maybe got 6 starters with their first 6 picks, including the punter. Reason they are not #1 is because Smith and Johnson have bust potential due to attitude and lack of consistent effort. And they didn't do much at the back end of the draft.

 

3. Giants- consistently one of the best drafting teams over the last 3 years. Nicks should start right away. Barden gives them another big WR. Beckum gives them a versatile backup at TE. Bomar, Brown, and Beatty were all steals and give them some solid depth.

 

Worst 3 drafts

 

1. Broncos- biggest need was DL, so they addressed it by picking 0 DL-men. Jay Cutler for Robert Ayres, Alfonso Smith, and Richard Quinn. Ayres is a good pick who I wanted at 18 for the Bears, but Quinn is the 3rd TE behind 2 pretty decent ones and they traded the Bears 3rd for him. Smith is OK, but they traded next year's #1 for him. Granted it wasn't the Bears pick they traded, but essentially the Cutler trade is done.

 

2. Cowboys- 3 OLBs in first 4 picks? Wasn't a huge need to begin with. Picked a K when they have one of the better Ks in the league. Only 1 true steal in Mickens in the 7th. Didn't get a WR to develop to replace TO. Would have been better trading some of those picks to get a couple really good players with so few needs.

 

3. Chargers- English was a reach at 16. They could have traded back and possibly picked up 2nd rounder and still picked English, Brown, Barwin, or Sintim...especially since the Bucs were looking to go ahead of Denver to get Freeman. Waited too long for a RB and to fill DL. Then got more of a NT than a 3-4 DE that they need.

 

Green Bay, Chicago, Atlanta, and Arizona also had pretty good drafts and would be the next 4. I didn't think NE did anything spectacular. I didn't think the Jets draft was bad. It was limited, but not bad at all. And I don't the Raiders draft was horrible. It was near the bottom, but not as bad as many think.

[sneakypower]

Yeah, the Eagles just barely missed my top 5. Lions would have been there as well if they would have taken Oher instead of Pettigrew.

i still can't get over it. you have a franchise LT in Oher and DT in Jerry fall in your laps at 20 and you opt for a luxury position in TE. now they're still stuck starting Jeff Backus and Chuck Darby. Delmas would be acceptable if they didn't already use 2nd rounders the last two years with Gerald Alexander and Bullocks. so now Paris Lenon stays put. a team ridden with pressing holes did virtually nothing to patch up any of them, save maybe QB.

 

nasty.

[Soul]

It could be that Angelo was going to take him later in the draft -- knowing that virtually no other team had in interest in him. It doesn't mean that Angelo was definitely going to take him in the second.

 

Haugh makes the claim that it was #49:

 

At the beginning of the second round, the Bears told Ohio safety Michael Mitchell to stay by his phone because they planned to draft him at No. 49. But the Raiders beat them to it, taking Mitchell two spots earlier.

 

"When [the Bears] did that, I was like, 'I'm going to be a Chicago Bear,' " Mitchell told the Raiders media during a teleconference. "That's what I was thinking."

 

But I've seen Haugh on some of the sports shows, and my take on him is that he's quite prone to overreaches and hyperbole in his opinions. So I don't necessarily believe he's getting it correct.

[dew1679666265]

Yeah, the Eagles just barely missed my top 5. Lions would have been there as well if they would have taken Oher instead of Pettigrew.

i still can't get over it. you have a franchise LT in Oher and DT in Jerry fall in your laps at 20 and you opt for a luxury position in TE. now they're still stuck starting Jeff Backus and Chuck Darby. Delmas would be acceptable if they didn't already use 2nd rounders the last two years with Gerald Alexander and Bullocks. so now Paris Lenon stays put. a team ridden with pressing holes did virtually nothing to patch up any of them, save maybe QB.

 

nasty.

 

I don't really have a problem with taking purely BPA because the Lions have so many needs - there's no way to fill them all this draft. So, I can understand the idea of just injecting some talent the coaching staff feels comfortable with this draft and then looking more at filling holes next year. And if Schwartz's draft strategy is similar to Fisher/Reinfeldt's then he'll value BPA over need in the draft anyway.

 

What I didn't understand was passing on a legit franchise LT like Oher - especially for a non-necessary position.

[dew1679666265]

The Titans have signed UDFA Alex Mortensen from Arkansas - the son of ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

[jersey cubs fan]

It could be that Angelo was going to take him later in the draft -- knowing that virtually no other team had in interest in him. It doesn't mean that Angelo was definitely going to take him in the second.

 

Haugh makes the claim that it was #49:

 

At the beginning of the second round, the Bears told Ohio safety Michael Mitchell to stay by his phone because they planned to draft him at No. 49. But the Raiders beat them to it, taking Mitchell two spots earlier.

 

"When [the Bears] did that, I was like, 'I'm going to be a Chicago Bear,' " Mitchell told the Raiders media during a teleconference. "That's what I was thinking."

 

But I've seen Haugh on some of the sports shows, and my take on him is that he's quite prone to overreaches and hyperbole in his opinions. So I don't necessarily believe he's getting it correct.

 

David Haugh is one of the guys that insisted the Bears absolutely had to do whatever possible to resign St. Clair. I question his judgement. The kid could have thought he was going to the Bears at some point in the draft, not necessarily in the 2nd. Or, he could have thought he was going at 49, even if Angelo never told him that he was going to take him at 49. Or, Angelo could have hinted he was looking at the kid at 49 to try and get somebody else to jump up and take him, leaving the guys he actually wanted available for the taking.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Titans have signed UDFA Alex Mortensen from Arkansas - the son of ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

 

Speaking of Mort. It's become clearer and clearer that he is getting lapped by the younger guys in the business. He had nothing to add to the draft discussion.

[dew1679666265]

The Titans have signed UDFA Alex Mortensen from Arkansas - the son of ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

 

Speaking of Mort. It's become clearer and clearer that he is getting lapped by the younger guys in the business. He had nothing to add to the draft discussion.

 

The draft isn't usually his strength, is it? He's normally more of a guy who uses his connections for roster moves during the season (scooping trades, signings, who's hurt, etc.).

[wolf stansson]

The Titans have signed UDFA Alex Mortensen from Arkansas - the son of ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

 

Speaking of Mort. It's become clearer and clearer that he is getting lapped by the younger guys in the business. He had nothing to add to the draft discussion.

 

The draft isn't usually his strength, is it? He's normally more of a guy who uses his connections for roster moves during the season (scooping trades, signings, who's hurt, etc.).

Even then, Jay Glazer and Adam Schefter break way more news.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Titans have signed UDFA Alex Mortensen from Arkansas - the son of ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

 

Speaking of Mort. It's become clearer and clearer that he is getting lapped by the younger guys in the business. He had nothing to add to the draft discussion.

 

The draft isn't usually his strength, is it? He's normally more of a guy who uses his connections for roster moves during the season (scooping trades, signings, who's hurt, etc.).

 

He's always been an integral part of ESPN's draft coverage. But he's been less and less notable for a couple years, in and out of the season. He's gotten several stories wrong and flat out missed some major ones. And this weekend he was a non-entity.

[dew1679666265]

The Titans have signed UDFA Alex Mortensen from Arkansas - the son of ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

 

Speaking of Mort. It's become clearer and clearer that he is getting lapped by the younger guys in the business. He had nothing to add to the draft discussion.

 

The draft isn't usually his strength, is it? He's normally more of a guy who uses his connections for roster moves during the season (scooping trades, signings, who's hurt, etc.).

Even then, Jay Glazer and Adam Schefter break way more news.

 

That is true. Mort is good for gameday stuff, but Schefter and Glazer are quite good at breaking pretty much everything else.

[dew1679666265]

The Titans have signed UDFA Alex Mortensen from Arkansas - the son of ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

 

Speaking of Mort. It's become clearer and clearer that he is getting lapped by the younger guys in the business. He had nothing to add to the draft discussion.

 

The draft isn't usually his strength, is it? He's normally more of a guy who uses his connections for roster moves during the season (scooping trades, signings, who's hurt, etc.).

 

He's always been an integral part of ESPN's draft coverage. But he's been less and less notable for a couple years, in and out of the season. He's gotten several stories wrong and flat out missed some major ones. And this weekend he was a non-entity.

 

I've been relying so much on NFL Network coverage that I hadn't even realized Mort had dropped off so much.