Harden to have shoulder exam; Cubs pick up option

[David]

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/10/hardens-shoulde.html

 

Rich Harden will see a shoulder specialist before the Cubs have to make a decision Wednesday on his $7 million option.

 

General manager Jim Hendry said Harden would be examined Tuesday afternoon or Wednesday. He received a cortisone shot in the is right shoulder in early September and his velocity dropped after a 10-9-pitch outing against Washington on Aug. 24, when Harden was still throwing in the 95-96 m.p.h. range in the seventh inning, when he struck out the side to finish with 11 strikeouts.

 

One advance scout told Toronto's Globe and Mail newspaper that he believed Harden had elbow or shoulder problems: "I've had him consistently down at least five miles per hour from what he used to throw. There's something in there [his arm.]"

 

The Cubs began spacing out his starts following his next outing, resulting in only two regular season starts after Sept. 11th, including a five-inning, 115-pitch start against Milwaukee on Sept. 18th. If Harden has to undergo some arthroscopic surgery to clean out the shoulder, he could return by early May.

 

If the Cubs knew he'd be ready by then, they'd likely pick up the option. In a more unlikely scenario, they could also decline the option and make Harden arbitration-eligible, in which case he could make even more than $7 million, based on his career numbers (41-20, 3.23 earned-run average) and today's inflated salaries for starting pitchers.

 

Either way, Harden is the Cubs property in '09.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Honestly, I love Harden, but if were going to have him in our rotation, he needs to come ready to pitch every 5th game. We cant keep him wrapped in celophane and break him out every 2 weeks. I dont want to deal with another Mark Prior. Go after Derrek Lowe, or make a play for Sabbathia.

[SouthSideRyan]

Spend more for an inferior pitcher because I don't think Rich Harden is manly enough.

[imb]

25 starts from harden and 10 from marshall is good enough to spend 7 mil on or whatever it is

[David]

Spend more for an inferior pitcher because I don't think Rich Harden is manly enough.

 

Eh, I mean he has a point. The durability is an obvious concern.

[SouthSideRyan]

Spend more for an inferior pitcher because I don't think Rich Harden is manly enough.

 

Eh, I mean he has a point. The durability is an obvious concern.

 

If he's worreid about Harden being hurt all season that's fine. If he's worried about having to take extra care of a guy and skip him every now and then to keep him healthy then he's nuts.

[David]

Spend more for an inferior pitcher because I don't think Rich Harden is manly enough.

 

Eh, I mean he has a point. The durability is an obvious concern.

 

If he's worreid about Harden being hurt all season that's fine. If he's worried about having to take extra care of a guy and skip him every now and then to keep him healthy then he's nuts.

 

Agreed.

[David]

25 starts from harden and 10 from marshall is good enough to spend 7 mil on or whatever it is

 

I was just thinking along those lines.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Spend more for an inferior pitcher because I don't think Rich Harden is manly enough.

 

Eh, I mean he has a point. The durability is an obvious concern.

 

If he's worreid about Harden being hurt all season that's fine. If he's worried about having to take extra care of a guy and skip him every now and then to keep him healthy then he's nuts.

 

There are a lot of pitchers like this these days, and every one of them is a huge gamble. He could pitch a full season, he could pitch on long rest, or he could not start at all. I know 7 mil is a very low risk for what he could potentially bring to the table, but I dont want another glass pitcher who you never know when his next start will come.

[jersey cubs fan]

Spend more for an inferior pitcher because I don't think Rich Harden is manly enough.

 

Eh, I mean he has a point. The durability is an obvious concern.

 

If he's worreid about Harden being hurt all season that's fine. If he's worried about having to take extra care of a guy and skip him every now and then to keep him healthy then he's nuts.

 

There are a lot of pitchers like this these days, and every one of them is a huge gamble. He could pitch a full season, he could pitch on long rest, or he could not start at all. I know 7 mil is a very low risk for what he could potentially bring to the table, but I dont want another glass pitcher who you never know when his next start will come.

 

We knew the risks before we got Harden, and most people were more than happy to take them on. The risks are the same now. He is not going to be ready to pitch every 5th day next year. Big deal. If you don't want another pitcher who you never know when his next start will come, then you better have been 100% against trading for him from day 1.

[JimSorgi]

Yes, we should have Harden pitch every five days, though I'm not sure how much he'd help us when he's on the DL.

[UMFan83]

Makes me realize that we probably couldn't have counted on Harden enough in the playoffs.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Harden's worth $7 million for 15-20 starts, easily.

 

Unless the shoulder exam says he's likely done in '09, you have to pick it up.

[Mephistopheles]

didnt we learn something from "mark prior to be back by early may" like twenty years in a row or something?

[UK1679666180]

There's definitely a reason to question shoulder injuries and their diagnosis of those injuries.

 

Hopefully, he passes that physical and the Cubs put Harden on Maddux-like pitch counts and skip a few starts throughout the year with all of the starters.

[YearofDaCubs]

What I don't like about this situation is how Harden assured the team he was taking it easy and not throwing as hard to make it to the playoffs in 1 piece. When he did start in the playoffs his velocity was where it was at before(89-92mph). So where did all that velocity go from when he was first traded to us?

[Post Count Padder]

I'll be happy if Harden can give us 20-25 starts. He's worth the money. I just hope we're not going into familiar territory.

[C.C.]

I'd be happy to just save him for the last two months of the season.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Basically what they're saying is that unless he needs major surgery, the option will be picked up. Makes sense to me, as theirs no point in dropping 7 mil on a guy who MIGHT be ready for the second half of the season.

[Clem Fandango]

20-25 starts from Rich Harden @ $7 million > 32 starts from Carlos Zambrano at $17.75 million

 

Also keep in mind the whole "Contract Year" myth/legend

[17 Seconds]

Pick up the option and then just don't use him until September.

 

Seriously though, he shouldn't be a problem as long as people understand what we're getting. With Prior everybody always had expectations of him staying healthy and that's where the problems started. We need to realize that Harden won't stay healthy all year, it simply will not happen. Still, as others have said, 20 starts of Harden is well worth the 7 million.

 

That said, I really think we need another good SP because I don't expect Dempster to come close to matching last year's numbers and Harden could miss practically the entire season without anybody being surprised.

[The Other 15]

What I don't like about this situation is how Harden assured the team he was taking it easy and not throwing as hard to make it to the playoffs in 1 piece. When he did start in the playoffs his velocity was where it was at before(89-92mph). So where did all that velocity go from when he was first traded to us?

 

Sorry for the PM, YearofDaCubs, I just pressed the wrong button.

 

Where did it go? Good question. For openers, and for the thousandth time, the velocity isn't as important as the change in velocity between pitches for a guy like Harden who's strength is disguising his pitches from the same arm slot. He still had that at the end of the season, just not as exaggerated as earlier. His velocity likely went to the same place his control went - fatigueland.

 

He threw 148 innings this year compared to 71 over the last two years. He's only had one year in which he has approached normal starters IP's and that was 4 years ago. To expect a perfect season from him was overly hopeful. To expect a pitcher that will keep you in every game for 5 or 6 inning was very reasonable and that's exactly what they got. And barring some major injury for anyone to suggest that thats' not enough for $7mil simply doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

Quite honestly, every major market team is in position to take on special players like Harden or (gasp, here comes that name again) Prior if the price is right. After 148 innings of 2.00 era - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it's a good gamble.

[Guest]

I'd pay him the $7 million to pitch only in October.

[Banedon]

didnt we learn something from "mark prior to be back by early may" like twenty years in a row or something?

 

If it ends up being something more significant, then at least you've only lost a year with him...it won't be a regular spring training ritual.

[Soul]

I'll be happy if Harden can give us 20-25 starts. He's worth the money. I just hope we're not going into familiar territory.

 

We're not. It's a one year deal. And we know what we're getting into with Harden, unlike Prior when we were almost forced to hold on to dreams of a franchise-anchoring all-star type. Nobody is expecting Harden to be that.

 

$7 million isn't all that much for a guy like Harden, IMO. Yeah, you probably have to baby him. I like the idea of Marshall continuing to get spot starts. I don't think he's such a bad option to spell Harden if need be.

 

I think Rich did everything he could for us. His velocity was down, but when he pitched I always felt it was a good day for us. His results were pretty good, even though he didn't go deep into games. My biggest frustration point with him was when he would get into these fits of throwing every pitch head-high. But I don't think that's due to shoulder problems, that's something else.