Manny Ramirez to LAD, Bay to BOS, Prospects to PITT

[Guest]

So for those with much more knowledge of the minor leagues than myself, how good are these minor leaguers that the Pirates got. I know LaRoche is fairly highly touted but I don't know much about the other guys.

[nilodnayr]

So for those with much more knowledge of the minor leagues than myself, how good are these minor leaguers that the Pirates got. I know LaRoche is fairly highly touted but I don't know much about the other guys.

 

Moss is a 4th/5th OF

Hansen is a set up man

Morris is a pretty decent starter (a Logan White first rounder) but hes 3 years away

 

Moss Hansen and LaRoche are all ready to help the ML team.

[Tracer Bullet]

So for those with much more knowledge of the minor leagues than myself, how good are these minor leaguers that the Pirates got. I know LaRoche is fairly highly touted but I don't know much about the other guys.

 

Moss is a 4th/5th OF

Hansen is a set up man

Morris is a pretty decent starter (a Logan White first rounder) but hes 3 years away

 

Moss Hansen and LaRoche are all ready to help the ML team.

 

will Hansen get a shot to close in Pitt w/ Capps out? Wasn't he a closer in college, or am I thinking of another Sox prospect?

[BigbadB]

So for those with much more knowledge of the minor leagues than myself, how good are these minor leaguers that the Pirates got. I know LaRoche is fairly highly touted but I don't know much about the other guys.

 

Moss is a 4th/5th OF

Hansen is a set up man

Morris is a pretty decent starter (a Logan White first rounder) but hes 3 years away

 

Moss Hansen and LaRoche are all ready to help the ML team.

 

will Hansen get a shot to close in Pitt w/ Capps out? Wasn't he a closer in college, or am I thinking of another Sox prospect?

 

I kind of doubt they'd toss him into the role right away. Besides, they won't need a closer this weekend. :D

[nilodnayr]

So for those with much more knowledge of the minor leagues than myself, how good are these minor leaguers that the Pirates got. I know LaRoche is fairly highly touted but I don't know much about the other guys.

 

Moss is a 4th/5th OF

Hansen is a set up man

Morris is a pretty decent starter (a Logan White first rounder) but hes 3 years away

 

Moss Hansen and LaRoche are all ready to help the ML team.

 

will Hansen get a shot to close in Pitt w/ Capps out? Wasn't he a closer in college, or am I thinking of another Sox prospect?

 

Yeah he did close at SJU and was one of the many closing prospects for the BoSox. He definitely wont step in right away but if he has a good second half I can see him being annointed closer in the offseason or next year.

[Jake]

LaRoche, Hansen & Moss are all going to be on the 25 for tomorrow's game.

 

Moss will start in LF, Hansen will go to the Bullpen.

 

Corresponding moves:

 

Bixler sent back down. He came up a couple of days ago when Adam LaRoche went on the DL.

Franquelis Osoria, who was on the 25 man roster, was DFA'd.

Chris Duffy also DFA'd.

 

No word yet on exactly where Morris is going. My guess is Lynchburgh (High A.) Emphasis on guess.

[Vanilla Ice]

LaRoche, Hansen & Moss are all going to be on the 25 for tomorrow's game.

 

Moss will start in LF, Hansen will go to the Bullpen.

 

Corresponding moves:

 

Bixler sent back down. He came up a couple of days ago when Adam LaRoche went on the DL.

Franquelis Osoria, who was on the 25 man roster, was DFA'd.

Chris Duffy also DFA'd.

 

No word yet on exactly where Morris is going. My guess is Lynchburgh (High A.) Emphasis on guess.

do you guys have to get rid of three players on the 25 even though you traded one of them away?

[ELCABALLO45]

The headline in the Boston newspapers should say...

 

 

Moss traded to Pittsburgh

[Vanilla Ice]

The headline in the Boston newspapers should say...

 

 

Moss traded to Pittsburgh

why?

[RedFlash]

The headline in the Boston newspapers should say...

 

 

Moss traded to Pittsburgh

why?

 

Just to mess with New England Patriots fans....

 

And yes, I would find that hilarious.

[Rob]

So for those with much more knowledge of the minor leagues than myself, how good are these minor leaguers that the Pirates got. I know LaRoche is fairly highly touted but I don't know much about the other guys.

 

Here's BA's take on all of them.

 

Andy LaRoche - 3B (#2 Dodgers prospect)

 

"The Dodgers took a 39th round flier on LaRoche in 2003 and signed him for $1 million after he tore up the Cape Cod League that summer. He's the son of former major league all-star Dave and the brother of Pirates first baseman Adam. Andy entered spring training in competition for Los Angeles' third-base job, but went 11-for-51 without a homer in big league camp and spent most of the season at Triple-A Las Vegas. He had left shoulder surgery after the 2006 season, which might have precipitated his slow start, and he battled back soreness in 2007 as well. LaRoche has plus raw power and a good feel for hitting. When he gets his arms extended, balls fly off his bat to all fields. He lets balls travel deep and has the bat speed to catch up to the best of fastballs. He has advanced pitch recognition and commands the strike zone well when he stays within himself. He's a slightly below average defender with a solid-average arm. LaRoche's approach was inconsistent last season. He was overly patient at times when he first got to the majors in May, then chased balls out of the zone in his second try with the Dodgers in September. He also gets pull-happy at the plate. He's a below-average runner with unexceptional range defensively. Los Angeles would like to see him take his preparation more seriously. His injury history is more extensive than he or the club would like. LaRoche profiles as an everyday third baseman with the potential to bat in the middle of a lineup. The Dodgers haven't been able to fill the hole at third base since Adrian Beltre left in 2005, and LaRoche should finally get his opportunity this season."

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/L/Andy-LaRoche.shtml

 

Bryan Morris - RHP (#12 Dodgers prospect)

 

"Originally drafted by the Rays in the third round out of high school in 2005, Morris agreed to a $1.4 million bonus but Tampa Bay's ownership failed to finalize the well-above-slot deal. So he elected to play under his father Ricky, a pitching coach at Motlow State (Tenn) CC, where he dominated, then signed with LA for $1.325 million. The knock on Morris as an amateur was his delivery, as he pitched with a stiff front side and threw across his body. Sure enough, he had an elbow injury that required Tommy John surgery shortly after the end of his pro debut. Morris missed all of the 2007 season but made it back to the mound by instructional league. Dodgers officials said that his fastball was up to 95 mph there, and they worked on cleaning up his mechanics. During his debut, Morris pitched at 93 mph with good life and cutting action to his fastball. His hammer curveball also graded as a plus pitch with tight, hard spin. He showed some feel for his changeup and mixed in a below-average slider. He could begin 2008 in low Class A and has a ceiling of a No. 3 starter."

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Bryan-Morris-1.shtml

 

Brandon Moss - OF (#11 Red Sox prospect)

 

"At the all-star break last year, Moss was hitting .303 with 31 doubles and 13 homers in Triple-A, numbers that usually would merit big league playing time in the second half. But with the Red Sox, he got just 24 at bats. That's the dilemma facing Moss, who has nothing left to prove at Pawtucket but is blocked in Boston. Moss broke out as a prospect by winning the MVP award and batting title (.339) in the South Atlantic League in 2004, then struggled to find offensive consistency and the next two year in Double-A. His swing got long when he tried to take advantage of the short right field porch in Portland, but he made adjustments in the second half of 2006, which he capped by winning Eastern League playoff MVP honors. In 2007, Moss demonstrated more opposite field power than ever before and led his league in doubles for the second straight season. He has strong hands, a quick bat, leverage in his swing and a greater understanding that he should just let his power come naturally. He imparts nice backspin on his drives and though he'll swing and miss, he does a good job of covering both sides of the plate. Though Moss isn't as streaky as he used to be, he can still get inconsistent with his approach and gives too many at bats away. He projects as a .270 hitter with 20 homers a year. Despite slightly below average speed, he's a solid right fielder with a good arm. Moss will be a reserve outfielder this season for the Red Sox, unless they use him as trade bait."

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Brandon-Moss.shtml

 

Craig Hansen - RHP (#18 Red Sox prospect)

 

"In the final two months of last season, the Red Sox finally started to see glimpses of the pitcher they thought they were getting when the spent the 26th overall pick and a $4.4 million big league contract on Hansen in 2005. After making some adjustments to his mechanics and mental approach, Hansen had a 1.23 ERA and a 25-9 K-BB in his final 22 inning, and he again started flashing the slider that made him so dominant in college. It's still inconsistent, but Boston hadn't seen that killer slider since he turned pro. He also worked with a 93-96 mph fastball that had good life down in the strike zone. Before Jonathan Papelbon emerged as the Red Sox closer in 2006, there was talk that Hansen might assume that role in his first full pro season. The pressure got to Hansen, who kept tinkering with his mechanics while trying to find the slider that had deserted him. He started throwing with more effort and a lower arm slot, and it hurt his fastball command. Now he's back up to a true three-quarters angle and looking more like his old self. Hansen did hit a couple of speed bumps after his resurgence, missing three weeks in August after he banged his forearm when he slipped and fell against a nightstand. He also left the Arizona Fall League early to have surgery to correct his sleep apnea. As soon as Hansen gets more consistent with his slider, he'll be pitching in Boston again."

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/H/Craig-Hansen.shtml

[badnews]

The Pirates are the winners in this deal, clearly. That's more than they could've hoped for.

 

Man, are Red Sox fans trying to talk up Bay on their message boards. They're going to be disappointed. He's a good hitter, no question, but even in Fenway I think he's way closer to an .880 OPS producer than a .950 or 1.000 OPS guy like Manny was. His clutch hitting numbers don't match up with Manny's the past few years either.

 

Maybe I sound like I'm coming down too hard on Bay. He's a good hitter, but he's not elite, and there's no use in pretending he's elite. He's also one of those guys people seem to think is younger than he actually is.

[RedFlash]

The Pirates are the winners in this deal, clearly. That's more than they could've hoped for.

 

Man, are Red Sox fans trying to talk up Bay on their message boards. They're going to be disappointed. He's a good hitter, no question, but even in Fenway I think he's way closer to an .880 OPS producer than a .950 or 1.000 OPS guy like Manny was. His clutch hitting numbers don't match up with Manny's the past few years either.

 

Maybe I sound like I'm coming down too hard on Bay. He's a good hitter, but he's not elite, and there's no use in pretending he's elite. He's also one of those guys people seem to think is younger than he actually is.

 

 

But to be fair, the Red Sox are thinking "Nomar part 2" with this deal. They got rid of a franchise icon, Nomar, and replace him with serviceable players like Mientkiewicz (at the time) and Orlando Cabrera, and in a separate deals Dave Roberts and Mike Myers and they went with the "team" concept the rest of the way. Now I understand that Manny was on that team, but I remember Nomar becoming a distraction that yr, because A: He turned down a contract extension and B: He pulled himself out of an Red Sox/Yankee game in which we saw that DJ "overrated catch" into the stands. They got rid of a distraction and it proved dividends. They're hoping history repeats itself with Jason Bay. But I do think this trade will definately hurt the Sox chances of getting into the playoffs. You don't get rid of a talent like Manny and only settle for Jason Bay. I like Bay, and I am glad he is no longer in Pittsburgh, but I could see him struggle under the burden of replacing Manny in LF.

[Guest]

Thanks for the info on the prospects, nilo and Rob.

[badnews]

The Pirates are the winners in this deal, clearly. That's more than they could've hoped for.

 

Man, are Red Sox fans trying to talk up Bay on their message boards. They're going to be disappointed. He's a good hitter, no question, but even in Fenway I think he's way closer to an .880 OPS producer than a .950 or 1.000 OPS guy like Manny was. His clutch hitting numbers don't match up with Manny's the past few years either.

 

Maybe I sound like I'm coming down too hard on Bay. He's a good hitter, but he's not elite, and there's no use in pretending he's elite. He's also one of those guys people seem to think is younger than he actually is.

 

 

But to be fair, the Red Sox are thinking "Nomar part 2" with this deal. They got rid of a franchise icon, Nomar, and replace him with serviceable players like Mientkiewicz (at the time) and Orlando Cabrera, and in a separate deals Dave Roberts and Mike Myers and they went with the "team" concept the rest of the way. Now I understand that Manny was on that team, but I remember Nomar becoming a distraction that yr, because A: He turned down a contract extension and B: He pulled himself out of an Red Sox/Yankee game in which we saw that DJ "overrated catch" into the stands. They got rid of a distraction and it proved dividends. They're hoping history repeats itself with Jason Bay. But I do think this trade will definately hurt the Sox chances of getting into the playoffs. You don't get rid of a talent like Manny and only settle for Jason Bay. I like Bay, and I am glad he is no longer in Pittsburgh, but I could see him struggle under the burden of replacing Manny in LF.

 

Can you really replicate those kinds of counterintuitive trades though? Isn't that sort of like pulling off a Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik like swap and saying it'll work out with a World Series victory like it did in 2005? I don't know.

 

Bay strikes out a little more than Manny (I think, I'm eyeballing the numbers) but hits a much lower line drive percentage for a lower BABIP. He seems like a .280-.285 ish hitter which will keep the OBP and SLG lower.

[CubinNY]

The Pirates are the winners in this deal, clearly. That's more than they could've hoped for.

 

Man, are Red Sox fans trying to talk up Bay on their message boards. They're going to be disappointed. He's a good hitter, no question, but even in Fenway I think he's way closer to an .880 OPS producer than a .950 or 1.000 OPS guy like Manny was. His clutch hitting numbers don't match up with Manny's the past few years either.

 

Maybe I sound like I'm coming down too hard on Bay. He's a good hitter, but he's not elite, and there's no use in pretending he's elite. He's also one of those guys people seem to think is younger than he actually is.

 

 

But to be fair, the Red Sox are thinking "Nomar part 2" with this deal. They got rid of a franchise icon, Nomar, and replace him with serviceable players like Mientkiewicz (at the time) and Orlando Cabrera, and in a separate deals Dave Roberts and Mike Myers and they went with the "team" concept the rest of the way. Now I understand that Manny was on that team, but I remember Nomar becoming a distraction that yr, because A: He turned down a contract extension and B: He pulled himself out of an Red Sox/Yankee game in which we saw that DJ "overrated catch" into the stands. They got rid of a distraction and it proved dividends. They're hoping history repeats itself with Jason Bay. But I do think this trade will definately hurt the Sox chances of getting into the playoffs. You don't get rid of a talent like Manny and only settle for Jason Bay. I like Bay, and I am glad he is no longer in Pittsburgh, but I could see him struggle under the burden of replacing Manny in LF.

 

Can you really replicate those kinds of counterintuitive trades though? Isn't that sort of like pulling off a Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik like swap and saying it'll work out with a World Series victory like it did in 2005? I don't know.

 

Bay strikes out a little more than Manny (I think, I'm eyeballing the numbers) but hits a much lower line drive percentage for a lower BABIP. He seems like a .280-.285 ish hitter which will keep the OBP and SLG lower.

They're going to miss Manny's production when he wasn't pouting, but I think Bay can make up about 2/3 or 3/4 of the non-pouting Manny. That's more than they were getting out of the pouting Manny.

[Jake]

I like Bay, and I am glad he is no longer in Pittsburgh, but I could see him struggle under the burden of replacing Manny in LF.

 

I see Bay doing a lot better with Big Papi hitting behind him, and with the pressure off that he doesn't have to be "The Man".

 

Look for many doubles off of the green monster.

[TruffleShuffle]

if i'm a pirates fan, the one thing i would've liked to see is a potential front line starter. that organization is really poor when it comes to pitching. i wonder if they tried to pry michael bowden away from the red sox... he would've been the guy that i targeted.

[BigbadB]

So the Dodgers have Angel Berroa playing shortstop and Pablo Ozuna playing second, and they trade for Manny?

 

Is Joe Torre really going to sit Juan Pierre or Andruw Jones with the money they make? The victims in this deal will likely be Andre Ethier and Matt Kemp, though I'm not sure which of the previous three mentioned the Dodgers would actually stick in RF.

 

I really would have loved it if the Cubs found a way to snag Ethier.

[rchap24]

So the Dodgers have Angel Berroa playing shortstop and Pablo Ozuna playing second, and they trade for Manny?

 

Is Joe Torre really going to sit Juan Pierre or Andruw Jones with the money they make? The victims in this deal will likely be Andre Ethier and Matt Kemp, though I'm not sure which of the previous three mentioned the Dodgers would actually stick in RF.

 

I really would have loved it if the Cubs found a way to snag Ethier.

 

He was sitting Jones for a while if I remember correctly earlier in the season

[Jake]

if i'm a pirates fan, the one thing i would've liked to see is a potential front line starter. that organization is really poor when it comes to pitching. i wonder if they tried to pry michael bowden away from the red sox... he would've been the guy that i targeted.

 

The desire to get one was there. But, two things. Most important, no one who had a young potential front line starter was making him available. The Rays have three, and all were untouchable.

 

Also, we need quantity as much as quality. JVB didn't work out. Yoslan Herrera isn't looking to promising. We now have a couple of guys who can compete for those back end of the rotation jobs, something we needed.

 

Bryan Morris could be a top of the rotation guy. Way too soon to call.

[Guest]

Here's BA's trade analysis if you're interested in more reading, soccer:

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/trade-central/2008/266613.html

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I really don't like this deal from the Red Sox perspective. they traded Manny + 2 prospects + $7M for Bay? I know they felt it necessary to get rid of him, but that seems a little crazy to me

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I really don't like this deal from the Red Sox perspective. they traded Manny + 2 prospects + $7M for Bay? I know they felt it necessary to get rid of him, but that seems a little crazy to me

 

It definitely shows how badly they wanted to be rid of him. I know they'll have Bay for a reasonable price for the near future, but to add prospects with Manny to move him shows they really wanted him gone.

[sneakypower]

if i'm a pirates fan, the one thing i would've liked to see is a potential front line starter. that organization is really poor when it comes to pitching. i wonder if they tried to pry michael bowden away from the red sox... he would've been the guy that i targeted.

ick

 

i do not like Bowden's mechanics at all. he hangs his arm down in his leg kick twisting his wrist around almost like you'd see a little 8 year old little leaguer doing. it just screams shoulder injury to me.