Who would you rather have...

[CubInOK]

...as a shortstop this season, Ryan Theriot or Derek Jeter? From next season until the end of their careers? I'm having a debate on another board and I would like to hear some thoughts from the posters here.

[Schwarber Fan]

Jeter

 

Dude's an all-star and a proven winner, dude.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

it pains me to say, but Theriot mostly for $$$. the difference in production going forward probably isn't significant enough to offset that salary especially when that same money could be used to add another legit #1 starter

[CubinNY]

it pains me to say, but Theriot mostly for $$$. the difference in production going forward probably isn't significant enough to offset that salary especially when that same money could be used to add another legit #1 starter

Jeter and its not particularly close. Just look at the RC. It's almost laughable.

[David]

it pains me to say, but Theriot mostly for $$$. the difference in production going forward probably isn't significant enough to offset that salary especially when that same money could be used to add another legit #1 starter

Jeter and its not particularly close. Just look at the RC. It's almost laughable.

 

 

Jeter is 34, appears to be on the decline, and is making $21M a year.

 

There is just about no player I would take him over with that salary.

[CubinNY]

it pains me to say, but Theriot mostly for $$$. the difference in production going forward probably isn't significant enough to offset that salary especially when that same money could be used to add another legit #1 starter

Jeter and its not particularly close. Just look at the RC. It's almost laughable.

 

 

Jeter is 34, appears to be on the decline, and is making $21M a year.

 

There is just about no player I would take him over with that salary.

Who said anything about salary. Jeter's decline and Theriot's incline will never meet. It's almost a joke of a question. I really don't understand the level of Jeter hate on this board. Just look at his numbers.

[Banedon]

it pains me to say, but Theriot mostly for $$$. the difference in production going forward probably isn't significant enough to offset that salary especially when that same money could be used to add another legit #1 starter

Jeter and its not particularly close. Just look at the RC. It's almost laughable.

 

 

Jeter is 34, appears to be on the decline, and is making $21M a year.

 

There is just about no player I would take him over with that salary.

Who said anything about salary. Jeter's decline and Theriot's incline will never meet. It's almost a joke of a question. I really don't understand the level of Jeter hate on this board. Just look at his numbers.

 

Well nobody said to ignore salary either.

[jersey cubs fan]

it pains me to say, but Theriot mostly for $$$. the difference in production going forward probably isn't significant enough to offset that salary especially when that same money could be used to add another legit #1 starter

Jeter and its not particularly close. Just look at the RC. It's almost laughable.

 

 

Jeter is 34, appears to be on the decline, and is making $21M a year.

 

There is just about no player I would take him over with that salary.

Who said anything about salary. Jeter's decline and Theriot's incline will never meet. It's almost a joke of a question. I really don't understand the level of Jeter hate on this board. Just look at his numbers.

 

the question was about this this season, as well as through the end of their careers. I'm pretty sure I'd take Jeter this season. But salary has to be part of the equation, and that makes Jeter very unattraction going forward.

[UMFan83]

Salary aside, Jeter and its not even close

 

With Salary considered, if I'm a big market team Jeter. If I'm a small or medium market team Theriot. But only because Theriot is expendable and you can probably find Jeter's production (in 2008) for a much better price and dump off Theriot.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

it pains me to say, but Theriot mostly for $$$. the difference in production going forward probably isn't significant enough to offset that salary especially when that same money could be used to add another legit #1 starter

Jeter and its not particularly close. Just look at the RC. It's almost laughable.

 

 

Jeter is 34, appears to be on the decline, and is making $21M a year.

 

There is just about no player I would take him over with that salary.

Who said anything about salary. Jeter's decline and Theriot's incline will never meet. It's almost a joke of a question. I really don't understand the level of Jeter hate on this board. Just look at his numbers.

I've never hated Jeter. I recognize him as a terrific offensive player. however, he's declining and will continue to decline and his defense is borderline terrible. Theriot will never match Jeter's offensive numbers but over the next few years will provide better defense and the money allows for more important upgrades to the team. the question might as well be Sabathia + Theriot or Jeter when salary is considered.

[CubInOK]

it pains me to say, but Theriot mostly for $$$. the difference in production going forward probably isn't significant enough to offset that salary especially when that same money could be used to add another legit #1 starter

Jeter and its not particularly close. Just look at the RC. It's almost laughable.

 

 

Jeter is 34, appears to be on the decline, and is making $21M a year.

 

There is just about no player I would take him over with that salary.

Who said anything about salary. Jeter's decline and Theriot's incline will never meet. It's almost a joke of a question. I really don't understand the level of Jeter hate on this board. Just look at his numbers.

Here ya go.

 

Jeter

Theriot

[CubColtPacer]

Jeter will probably pass Theriot this year in a couple weeks. They've been trending opposite directions for a while now.

 

If I include salary, I have to take Theriot. Jeter's probably an 800 OPS type of player at this point with terrible defense. I'd rather save the 21 million and use it somewhere else. You could use it on a SS in the next offseason or two to replace Theriot if he's slumped, or you could use it on an ace.

 

If I don't include salary, it's not even a question. Jeter is quite a bit better than Theriot, and will continue to be.

[Clem Fandango]

Like most everyone else, if salary is included, then Theriot. Jeter's production has never been worth $20 million and it never will be. I don't care how captainy or clutchy he is. There's only a handful of men in the majors who are worth $20+ million. Derk Jeter is not, and never has been, one of them.

 

I'll take the gritty spark plug entering his prime (though that's not saying much for Theriot) at $428,000 over the aging, overpaid, and vastly overrated superstar at $20 million.

 

If salary is not an issue, you take Jeter obviously, but salary is always an issue, and this makes it quite an easy decision to avoid Jeter and his declining skillset.

[inari]

No one actually evaluates Derek Jeter correctly. They either vastly overrate or underrate him. This generally depends on whether or not they're Yankees fans. As it is, Jeter is still an excellent shortstop. One of the best of all time.

 

Jeter without a shadow of a doubt.

[SouthSideRyan]

Derek Jeter is both a HOF and one of the most overrated star players of all time.

[inari]

I think his '99 season has a lot to do with people overrating him.

[jersey cubs fan]

No one actually evaluates Derek Jeter correctly. They either vastly overrate or underrate him. This generally depends on whether or not they're Yankees fans. As it is, Jeter is still an excellent shortstop. One of the best of all time.

 

Jeter without a shadow of a doubt.

 

I don't think this is true. Some people underrate him, but as a Jeter basher myself, I'm more than willing to admit that he has been excellent. He's just not the baseball saint he's made out to be. And it's a lot more than just Yankees fans. Baseball fundamentalists adore him. The dream weaving myth makers of the media can't get enough of him, and believers in things like clutch and curses think he's much better than he is. Just look at Bill Simmons. He's an avid Red Sox fan who respects the hell out of Jeter and can't stand ARod, why? Because Jeter has won rings and Simmons "can feel" that Jeter will hurt them in the clutch while ARod will choke.

[TruffleShuffle]

same answer as just about everyone - theriot if you're including salary; jeter if you're not. if jeter were making about $10-12M a year i'd go with him. but the $21M/year is an albatross with his declining production.

[sneakypower]

how many times can a guy be called overrated until he becomes underrated?

 

he's Garrett Anderson in reverse

[Mizzou]

Wow, Theriot has a higher OPS than Jeter this year. Equally as surprising to me is that, even with his really low slugging, he's 8th in all of baseball in OPS.

[mcgoobs]

it pains me to say, but Theriot mostly for $$$. the difference in production going forward probably isn't significant enough to offset that salary especially when that same money could be used to add another legit #1 starter

Jeter and its not particularly close. Just look at the RC. It's almost laughable.

 

Theriot 2008 RC/G: 5.2

Jeter 2008 RC/G: 4.4

[Vanilla Ice]

it pains me to say, but Theriot mostly for $$$. the difference in production going forward probably isn't significant enough to offset that salary especially when that same money could be used to add another legit #1 starter

Jeter and its not particularly close. Just look at the RC. It's almost laughable.

 

Theriot 2008 RC/G: 5.2

Jeter 2008 RC/G: 4.4

MCGOOBWNED

[CubinNY]

it pains me to say, but Theriot mostly for $$$. the difference in production going forward probably isn't significant enough to offset that salary especially when that same money could be used to add another legit #1 starter

Jeter and its not particularly close. Just look at the RC. It's almost laughable.

 

Theriot 2008 RC/G: 5.2

Jeter 2008 RC/G: 4.4

MCGOOBWNED

Not even close. You cannot look at a half of a year's worth of data. Look at the runs created for their career each year. Jeter got off to a terrible start this year.

[abuck1220]

it pains me to say, but Theriot mostly for $$$. the difference in production going forward probably isn't significant enough to offset that salary especially when that same money could be used to add another legit #1 starter

Jeter and its not particularly close. Just look at the RC. It's almost laughable.

 

Theriot 2008 RC/G: 5.2

Jeter 2008 RC/G: 4.4

MCGOOBWNED

Not even close. You cannot look at a half of a year's worth of data. Look at the runs created for their career each year. Jeter got off to a terrible start this year.

 

yeah, and jeter's 34 years old.

[Jehrico]

it pains me to say, but Theriot mostly for $$$. the difference in production going forward probably isn't significant enough to offset that salary especially when that same money could be used to add another legit #1 starter

Jeter and its not particularly close. Just look at the RC. It's almost laughable.

 

 

Jeter is 34, appears to be on the decline, and is making $21M a year.

 

There is just about no player I would take him over with that salary.

Who said anything about salary. Jeter's decline and Theriot's incline will never meet. It's almost a joke of a question. I really don't understand the level of Jeter hate on this board. Just look at his numbers.

They've already intersected. Both have an OPS+ right now of 98.

Jeter's decline is considerable right now, and I think you're underestimating it. In terms of BA/OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+, here's Jeters numbers over the last three years:

2006:.343/.417/.483/.900/132

2007:.322/.388/.452/.840/121

2008:.284/.345/.390/.735/98

 

You pointed out runs created. Theriot is leading Jeter this year in RC27 and total RC for the year.

 

Theriot's career best years will never approach Jeter's mediocre years, but lets not ignore how far Jeter has fallen the last couple of years. Additionally, very, very few shortstops historically have been able to maintain anything close to league average defense from 35 and on. Theriot will never be a gold glover, but he should be expected to maintain slightly-below league average defense for a SS for the next several years. Based on his age and other comparable defenders at SS, I wouldn't be willing to wager anything that Jeter will be able to provide acceptable defense for much longer at all, as he's been slightly below average for awhile now.

 

Then you throw in the money angle on top of that, I definitely take Theriot in the future. I'd still go with Jeter this year, next year's a wash. 2010-2012 or so, I'd rather have Theriot.