Bulls get the #1 pick! 2008 NBA Draft Discussion

[CubinNY]

Beasley screams Derrick Coleman to me. The same red flags have been raised in terms of his ethic, desire, and goofball tendencies (how many schools did he go to?). Plus he was recruited by Bob Huggins. ( I know I should not paint with a broad brush in this respect, but recruiting good kids with strong work ethics has never been one of Huggin's priorities. IIRC, his graduation rate at Cinci was less than 10%, and for a while was zero. And what happens when those kids get to the pros?: Kenyon Martin, Nick Van Exel, Dontonio Wingfield, etc.)

I'm not much of a college basketball fan so I cannot comment on the Coleman Beasley thing, however low graduation rates are somewhat of a red herring. When I was at OSU the graduation rate (within 4 years) for ALL undergrads averaged around 35%-45%. At most of these big schools graduation rates for all undergraduates is pretty poor. Graduation rates are always going to be worse because many times the athletes come to college unprepared to succeed at college.

 

I know some of the people who work with the athletes at the University of Memphis, and they are working hard with the athletes even before the athletes formally take classes. I think it is a bit unfair to make blanket statements about programs.

 

But it's not unfair to pick on the outliers, which, I believe Huggins' programs have always been.

I don't disagree, but I'd like to know what the overall graduation rate at Cin. was when Huggins was there.

 

Rose is a good kid and has worked hard in school even though everyone knew he was only staying for one year. If I'm the Bulls, I draft him.

[jersey cubs fan]

Beasley screams Derrick Coleman to me. The same red flags have been raised in terms of his ethic, desire, and goofball tendencies (how many schools did he go to?). Plus he was recruited by Bob Huggins. ( I know I should not paint with a broad brush in this respect, but recruiting good kids with strong work ethics has never been one of Huggin's priorities. IIRC, his graduation rate at Cinci was less than 10%, and for a while was zero. And what happens when those kids get to the pros?: Kenyon Martin, Nick Van Exel, Dontonio Wingfield, etc.)

I'm not much of a college basketball fan so I cannot comment on the Coleman Beasley thing, however low graduation rates are somewhat of a red herring. When I was at OSU the graduation rate (within 4 years) for ALL undergrads averaged around 35%-45%. At most of these big schools graduation rates for all undergraduates is pretty poor. Graduation rates are always going to be worse because many times the athletes come to college unprepared to succeed at college.

 

I know some of the people who work with the athletes at the University of Memphis, and they are working hard with the athletes even before the athletes formally take classes. I think it is a bit unfair to make blanket statements about programs.

 

But it's not unfair to pick on the outliers, which, I believe Huggins' programs have always been.

I don't disagree, but I'd like to know what the overall graduation rate at Cin. was when Huggins was there.

 

Rose is a good kid and has worked hard in school even though everyone knew he was only staying for one year. If I'm the Bulls, I draft him.

 

On the last point I have no idea one way or the other who is a better fit. From the sounds of things I would think they'd be better off with getting Rose and trading some of their guards, but I know very little about basketball. I remember the past couple years all the talk of needing big scorers. The biggest thing keeping them from success was the foolish attempt to try and win as a team without a star, because it was clear they had no stars.

[Guest]

Beasley can run the court, he hustles, and his off the court issues are non-existant (Rick Morrisey).

 

I read something that said he was kicked out of a bunch of schools, yet only committed "minor" indiscretions like slashing car tires, graffiti and putting a dead rat on a teachers desk.

 

Okay, so he didn't rape anybody, good for him, but that's some serious signs of one screwed up prick.

 

 

That was in high school. He had NO incidents at KSU. Starting to think he's grown up quite a bit. Who doesn't screw around like that in high school? It's better than the alternative of gangs, drugs, booze etc..... He's never gotten in trouble with the law. He was a practical joker. As Frank Martin said, if those are the only issues you have to deal with with a kid, then I'll take those kind of issues ANY time.

 

How long was he in KSU?

 

Not long. 1 year, just like Rose.

[rawaction]

Beasley screams Derrick Coleman to me. The same red flags have been raised in terms of his ethic, desire, and goofball tendencies (how many schools did he go to?). Plus he was recruited by Bob Huggins. ( I know I should not paint with a broad brush in this respect, but recruiting good kids with strong work ethics has never been one of Huggin's priorities. IIRC, his graduation rate at Cinci was less than 10%, and for a while was zero. And what happens when those kids get to the pros?: Kenyon Martin, Nick Van Exel, Dontonio Wingfield, etc.)

I'm not much of a college basketball fan so I cannot comment on the Coleman Beasley thing, however low graduation rates are somewhat of a red herring. When I was at OSU the graduation rate (within 4 years) for ALL undergrads averaged around 35%-45%. At most of these big schools graduation rates for all undergraduates is pretty poor. Graduation rates are always going to be worse because many times the athletes come to college unprepared to succeed at college.

 

I know some of the people who work with the athletes at the University of Memphis, and they are working hard with the athletes even before the athletes formally take classes. I think it is a bit unfair to make blanket statements about programs.

 

But it's not unfair to pick on the outliers, which, I believe Huggins' programs have always been.

I don't disagree, but I'd like to know what the overall graduation rate at Cin. was when Huggins was there.

 

Rose is a good kid and has worked hard in school even though everyone knew he was only staying for one year. If I'm the Bulls, I draft him.

 

On the last point I have no idea one way or the other who is a better fit. From the sounds of things I would think they'd be better off with getting Rose and trading some of their guards, but I know very little about basketball. I remember the past couple years all the talk of needing big scorers. The biggest thing keeping them from success was the foolish attempt to try and win as a team without a star, because it was clear they had no stars.

 

Beasley could very well be a star. He will likely be the team's leading scorer (or at least right there with Gordon/Deng) if not this year, then next year...if drafted. The advantage Rose has is that he could also be a star. He probably won't lead the team in scoring maybe ever, but he has the ability to get lesser scorers (Tyrus, Noah) in better position to score with the drive and his incredible vision. His ability to penetrate should also free up Gordon and Deng more also.

[Guest]

And lest we forget one of the biggest problems with this team is the inability of the guards to penetrate and take their man off the dribble for easy scores or free throws. Rose can break his man down with the best of PGs.

[jersey cubs fan]

The advantage Rose has is that he could also be a star. He probably won't lead the team in scoring maybe ever, but he has the ability to get lesser scorers (Tyrus, Noah) in better position to score with the drive and his incredible vision. His ability to penetrate should also free up Gordon and Deng more also.

 

Would they keep Gordon and Deng? I would assume Deng, but wouldn't Gordon be a prime candidate to get rid of with his contract situation if they draft the guard? Would Gordon be a legit starter alongside a real point guard?

[wolf stansson]

And lest we forget one of the biggest problems with this team is the inability of the guards to penetrate and take their man off the dribble for easy scores or free throws. Rose can break his man down with the best of PGs.

Exactly. When one guy's upside is compared to Zach Randolph and Derrick Coleman and the other guy's upside is a hybrid of Jason Kidd's size, Tony Parker's speed and Dwyane Wade's hops then I think you know who you have to take.

[Magnetic Curses]

i don't buy the comaprison between coleman and beasley.

 

coleman was a solid player as a college freshman, nowhere near as developed as beasley is at this point. beasley has an outside game and is more athletic. the comparison really isn't any more or less valid than a comparison to any other inside player who has ever played in the nba.

 

beasley has an all-around game and can do a lot more than coleman could ever do.

Edited May 23, 2008 by Stannis

[rawaction]

The advantage Rose has is that he could also be a star. He probably won't lead the team in scoring maybe ever, but he has the ability to get lesser scorers (Tyrus, Noah) in better position to score with the drive and his incredible vision. His ability to penetrate should also free up Gordon and Deng more also.

 

Would they keep Gordon and Deng? I would assume Deng, but wouldn't Gordon be a prime candidate to get rid of with his contract situation if they draft the guard? Would Gordon be a legit starter alongside a real point guard?

 

I think Gordon could be great alongside a real PG. I'd imagine at least one of them would be kept, maybe both if they traded Hinrich.

[jersey cubs fan]

The advantage Rose has is that he could also be a star. He probably won't lead the team in scoring maybe ever, but he has the ability to get lesser scorers (Tyrus, Noah) in better position to score with the drive and his incredible vision. His ability to penetrate should also free up Gordon and Deng more also.

 

Would they keep Gordon and Deng? I would assume Deng, but wouldn't Gordon be a prime candidate to get rid of with his contract situation if they draft the guard? Would Gordon be a legit starter alongside a real point guard?

 

I think Gordon could be great alongside a real PG. I'd imagine at least one of them would be kept, maybe both if they traded Hinrich.

 

My simpleton view of what should happen is they draft Rose, trade Hinrich for some sort of usable big guy. But then I think if it's so obvious they should trade Hinrich, how do they get anything of value for him?

[Guest]

The advantage Rose has is that he could also be a star. He probably won't lead the team in scoring maybe ever, but he has the ability to get lesser scorers (Tyrus, Noah) in better position to score with the drive and his incredible vision. His ability to penetrate should also free up Gordon and Deng more also.

 

Would they keep Gordon and Deng? I would assume Deng, but wouldn't Gordon be a prime candidate to get rid of with his contract situation if they draft the guard? Would Gordon be a legit starter alongside a real point guard?

 

I think Gordon could be great alongside a real PG. I'd imagine at least one of them would be kept, maybe both if they traded Hinrich.

 

My simpleton view of what should happen is they draft Rose, trade Hinrich for some sort of usable big guy. But then I think if it's so obvious they should trade Hinrich, how do they get anything of value for him?

 

Depending on your definition of usable, I'd look for a package around Gordon or Thomas and Hinrich (the rules regarding trading Gordon are different since he's a RFA).

[rawaction]

i don't buy the similarities between coleman and beasley.

 

coleman was a solid player as a college freshman, nowhere near as developed as beasley is at this point. beasley has an outside game and is more athletic. the comparison really isn't any more or less valid than a comparison to any other inside player who has ever played in the nba.

 

beasley has an all-around game and can do a lot more than coleman could ever do.

 

Thank you! The comparisons are way off, at least at the pro level. They are all 6'9-6'10 lefties who have and inside/outside game. That's the only comparison. Beasley is probably most similar to a taller Carmelo Anthony. He's a much better rebounder, but maybe not quite the scorer. He also will have ability to play the 3 and 4 unlike Melo.

 

However, your DC comments are off. Coleman was one of the best amateur players that I have ever seen. He was probably just a notch below where Beasley is athletically. His inside/outside game was probably as good, but he was not quite the rebounder. DC's game really went downhill as he got heavy, which started in college. Randolph never had the ability of DC, but also got fat.

[Guest]

And lest we forget one of the biggest problems with this team is the inability of the guards to penetrate and take their man off the dribble for easy scores or free throws. Rose can break his man down with the best of PGs.

Exactly. When one guy's upside is compared to Zach Randolph and Derrick Coleman and the other guy's upside is a hybrid of Jason Kidd's size, Tony Parker's speed and Dwyane Wade's hops then I think you know who you have to take.

 

I think you're a bit too down on Beasley...he should be a better player than Coleman and Randolph.

 

But that doesn't mean Rose is clearly more ideal, a better fit and a better talent.

[wolf stansson]

And lest we forget one of the biggest problems with this team is the inability of the guards to penetrate and take their man off the dribble for easy scores or free throws. Rose can break his man down with the best of PGs.

Exactly. When one guy's upside is compared to Zach Randolph and Derrick Coleman and the other guy's upside is a hybrid of Jason Kidd's size, Tony Parker's speed and Dwyane Wade's hops then I think you know who you have to take.

 

I think you're a bit too down on Beasley...he should be a better player than Coleman and Randolph.

 

But that doesn't mean Rose is clearly more ideal, a better fit and a better talent.

I'm not a sophisticated enough basketball critic to make the call on Beasley. I'm just going by what I'm reading.

 

Btw, Beasley is rumored to be closer to 6'7 than 6'10.

[Guest]

Btw, Beasley is rumored to be closer to 6'7 than 6'10.

 

That's my biggest worry with him...I've heard a few rumors of this and want to see how he measures out.

[YearofDaCubs]

The advantage Rose has is that he could also be a star. He probably won't lead the team in scoring maybe ever, but he has the ability to get lesser scorers (Tyrus, Noah) in better position to score with the drive and his incredible vision. His ability to penetrate should also free up Gordon and Deng more also.

 

Would they keep Gordon and Deng? I would assume Deng, but wouldn't Gordon be a prime candidate to get rid of with his contract situation if they draft the guard? Would Gordon be a legit starter alongside a real point guard?

I hope we keep Deng and get rid of Gordon. I also am not opposed to see Thabo start at SG alongside Rose. He is a defensive SG and this might open up more shots for Rose. maybe use Rose similar to Gilbert Arenas in this scenario.

[YearofDaCubs]

Btw, Beasley is rumored to be closer to 6'7 than 6'10.

 

That's my biggest worry with him...I've heard a few rumors of this and want to see how he measures out.

According to the link he's a legit 6'9 with shoes. This was last year so I wouldn't be shocked to find out that both he and Rose grew a little more.

 

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2008-Nike-Hoop-Summit-Official-Measurements,-plus-2007-Analysis/

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I watched Beasley play a bunch of times, including twice against my school, where I saw different players walking about campus for comparison. His height is legit.

[rawaction]

Where'd this height thing come in? I've never heard anyone outside of this board question his height. He looked a lot more like 6'10" on the court than he did 6'7". He can play a legit 4 in the NBA.

[RynoRules]

i don't buy the comaprison between coleman and beasley.

 

coleman was a solid player as a college freshman, nowhere near as developed as beasley is at this point. beasley has an outside game and is more athletic. the comparison really isn't any more or less valid than a comparison to any other inside player who has ever played in the nba.

 

beasley has an all-around game and can do a lot more than coleman could ever do.

 

I completely disagree with your assessment of Coleman's game at the college level. He had small fwd skills and could still beat you with his back to the basket. His rebounding numbers (not effort, mind you) were also very strong. He avged 20 and 10 in his first few yrs in the pros too.

 

EDIT:

 

Coleman at Cuse:

 

MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG

86-87 Syracuse 30.6 56.0 0.0 68.6 8.8 1.2 1.8 1.8 1.2 11.9

87-88 Syracuse 32.4 58.7 16.7 63.0 11.0 2.2 2.2 1.6 1.3 13.5

88-89 Syracuse 33.1 57.5 0.0 69.2 11.4 2.9 2.4 3.4 1.2 16.9

89-90 Syracuse 35.3 55.1 36.6 71.5 12.1 2.9 2.7 2.0 1.5 17.9

 

And don't discount how good his teammates were. The reason he didn't score as much as Beasley did last season is because he played with Sherm Douglas, Billy Owens and - for one season - Ron Seikley.

[nji232]

Elton Brand is 6-8 and he is one of the better PFs in the league. He plays just as well as the other elite western conference power forwards.

 

Rose is a stud, but you talk about how money will influence Beasley. Don't discount Rose getting money and being so close to home. We see extreme cases (Mike Vick, not comparing Rose to Vick at all) and less extreme cases (Carmelo) where guys have their friends from home that may not be the best people in the world. Keep rose at home and he cannot escape these influences and they are there even if its not publisized. Also Rose got into a fight with a member of the Memphis football team about two weeks after the championship game. So get on Beasley all you want, he stayed out of trouble completley while at school, Rose did not.

[wolf stansson]

Since I'm too lazy to look it up, is it true that Beasley switched High Schools 5 times? That sounds sketchy.

[pitchcs]

The way the Chicago media has been talking the last couple of days, it's sounding like it would be a major, major surprise if the Bulls don't take Rose.

[nji232]

Yeah he went to 6 schools in 5 years. It looks pretty bad, and it is. That being said it is very common for those east coast guys to go to multiple high schools. Rajon Rondo, OJ Mayo, and Carmelo right of the top of my head. Beasley seems to be an extreme case of switching schools and part of it is behavior issues, but all those east coast guys move around in order to get to the most high profile school. Especially for their junior and senior years.

[Guest]

Elton Brand is 6-8 and he is one of the better PFs in the league. He plays just as well as the other elite western conference power forwards.

 

While approximately the same height, Brand and Beasley are built differently. My main issue is if the choice is available for one or the other, I'd take the one who has already answered the questions.