Soriano injury

[CubColtPacer]

Lou on Pie batting 8th:

 

"Part of the education of hitting in the big leagues is being able to decipher balls from strikes," Piniella said. "If you can learn to work the count in the eight hole and take pitches and work the count, it's much to your advantage as a hitter.

 

"Obviously, if he can do that, I can move him to the two-hole," said Piniella, who would then drop Ryan Theriot to eighth in the order. "Up here, you have to swing at strikes. In the eighth, they'll test you a little bit but that's part of the learning experience."

 

The fact that he wants Pie to bat 8th for Pie's benefit has an interesting piece of logic to it. It's sort of a trial by fire-Lou is going to change this part of Pie's game before Pie becomes set in his ways, even though Lou implies that he would have better production right now in another spot. I'm ok with that if Lou realizes that putting an extra learning curve on Pie by putting him there will take a little extra time for the adjustments, and he has to be patient with him.

[Tracer Bullet]

I never said the games didn't count. I said that it's early and we're right in the thick of things - if he costs us a game or two it's not going to kill us. Especially in this division.

 

Giving up a few games to see if a guy can play....are you serious? We only won the division by 2 games last year and people were crying for him to play last year...in Lou's better judgement he went with Jacque and he was a big help in our division title

 

If Pie was hitting .250 and drawing a walk here and there he would be in there everyday, but he's not even close to that and right now in his career is a defensive replacement in the major leagues

 

Regardless of what he did last year in the minors, that is where he belongs if they want him playing everyday because he is not a everyday major leaguer yet

 

The difference between Reed Johnson's career line against RHP hitting 1st or 2nd and Pie hitting 8th isn't going to cost us 2 games in a month. It might not even cost us 2 games over a full year. With this team, there's just no reason Pie shouldn't be playing against every RHP.

[Tracer Bullet]

Lou on Pie batting 8th:

 

"Part of the education of hitting in the big leagues is being able to decipher balls from strikes," Piniella said. "If you can learn to work the count in the eight hole and take pitches and work the count, it's much to your advantage as a hitter.

 

"Obviously, if he can do that, I can move him to the two-hole," said Piniella, who would then drop Ryan Theriot to eighth in the order. "Up here, you have to swing at strikes. In the eighth, they'll test you a little bit but that's part of the learning experience."

 

The fact that he wants Pie to bat 8th for Pie's benefit has an interesting piece of logic to it. It's sort of a trial by fire-Lou is going to change this part of Pie's game before Pie becomes set in his ways, even though Lou implies that he would have better production right now in another spot. I'm ok with that if Lou realizes that putting an extra learning curve on Pie by putting him there will take a little extra time for the adjustments, and he has to be patient with him.

 

I agree that Pie should be hitting down in the order now. But I disagree with Lou regarding swinging at every strike. Unless you have 2 strikes, sometimes it's better to take a strike than swing at it. Some really good pitches are strikes that even really good hitters won't do much with (unless they get a lucky little blooper). Laying off great pitches that are strikes so that you can drive a ball you can handle is a much better approach than "swing at every pitch I think is a strike" which is stupid. If that means you strike out a few more times, rather than dribbling a soft grounder to 2nd, so be it.

 

Oh, and Theriot should be hitting 8th regardless of where Pie is on his learning curve. Hit Pie 7th and Theriot 8th until Pie is ready to hit higher in the order.

[CubColtPacer]

Lou on Pie batting 8th:

 

"Part of the education of hitting in the big leagues is being able to decipher balls from strikes," Piniella said. "If you can learn to work the count in the eight hole and take pitches and work the count, it's much to your advantage as a hitter.

 

"Obviously, if he can do that, I can move him to the two-hole," said Piniella, who would then drop Ryan Theriot to eighth in the order. "Up here, you have to swing at strikes. In the eighth, they'll test you a little bit but that's part of the learning experience."

 

The fact that he wants Pie to bat 8th for Pie's benefit has an interesting piece of logic to it. It's sort of a trial by fire-Lou is going to change this part of Pie's game before Pie becomes set in his ways, even though Lou implies that he would have better production right now in another spot. I'm ok with that if Lou realizes that putting an extra learning curve on Pie by putting him there will take a little extra time for the adjustments, and he has to be patient with him.

 

I agree that Pie should be hitting down in the order now. But I disagree with Lou regarding swinging at every strike. Unless you have 2 strikes, sometimes it's better to take a strike than swing at it. Some really good pitches are strikes that even really good hitters won't do much with (unless they get a lucky little blooper). Laying off great pitches that are strikes so that you can drive a ball you can handle is a much better approach than "swing at every pitch I think is a strike" which is stupid. If that means you strike out a few more times, rather than dribbling a soft grounder to 2nd, so be it.

 

Oh, and Theriot should be hitting 8th regardless of where Pie is on his learning curve. Hit Pie 7th and Theriot 8th until Pie is ready to hit higher in the order.

 

Interesting. You took that sentence completely differently then I did. When Lou said you have to swing at strikes, you took that to mean that there is an obligation to swing at every strike that comes up there.

 

I put the emphasis on the other part of the sentence, which to me fits in with the rest of the quote better about working the count and being able to tell the difference between balls and strikes. You have to swing at strikes doesn't mean to me that you have to swing at all strikes, but it does mean that it is essential that you do not swing at balls. You have to swing at strikes instead of balls because if you're swinging at balls then it's too easy for pitchers to get you out.

 

So I really don't think that Lou meant that you have to take a swing towards each and every strike that comes over the plate.

[CuseCubFan69]

Lou on Pie batting 8th:

 

"Part of the education of hitting in the big leagues is being able to decipher balls from strikes," Piniella said. "If you can learn to work the count in the eight hole and take pitches and work the count, it's much to your advantage as a hitter.

 

"Obviously, if he can do that, I can move him to the two-hole," said Piniella, who would then drop Ryan Theriot to eighth in the order. "Up here, you have to swing at strikes. In the eighth, they'll test you a little bit but that's part of the learning experience."

 

The fact that he wants Pie to bat 8th for Pie's benefit has an interesting piece of logic to it. It's sort of a trial by fire-Lou is going to change this part of Pie's game before Pie becomes set in his ways, even though Lou implies that he would have better production right now in another spot. I'm ok with that if Lou realizes that putting an extra learning curve on Pie by putting him there will take a little extra time for the adjustments, and he has to be patient with him.

 

I agree that Pie should be hitting down in the order now. But I disagree with Lou regarding swinging at every strike. Unless you have 2 strikes, sometimes it's better to take a strike than swing at it. Some really good pitches are strikes that even really good hitters won't do much with (unless they get a lucky little blooper). Laying off great pitches that are strikes so that you can drive a ball you can handle is a much better approach than "swing at every pitch I think is a strike" which is stupid. If that means you strike out a few more times, rather than dribbling a soft grounder to 2nd, so be it.

 

Oh, and Theriot should be hitting 8th regardless of where Pie is on his learning curve. Hit Pie 7th and Theriot 8th until Pie is ready to hit higher in the order.

 

Interesting. You took that sentence completely differently then I did. When Lou said you have to swing at strikes, you took that to mean that there is an obligation to swing at every strike that comes up there.

 

I put the emphasis on the other part of the sentence, which to me fits in with the rest of the quote better about working the count and being able to tell the difference between balls and strikes. You have to swing at strikes doesn't mean to me that you have to swing at all strikes, but it does mean that it is essential that you do not swing at balls. You have to swing at strikes instead of balls because if you're swinging at balls then it's too easy for pitchers to get you out.

 

So I really don't think that Lou meant that you have to take a swing towards each and every strike that comes over the plate.

 

That's what I got out of it too.

[Banedon]

I've complained to my wife every time I see Soriano do that skip. It's so dumb. I'm not even sure why he does it. It's no great showoff feat to be able to catch a routine fly, which is the only time he does it. And now this. Hopefully this brings the skipping to an end. It was a personal pet peeve to me before, and now it's just dumb.

[rawaction]

I've complained to my wife every time I see Soriano do that skip. It's so dumb. I'm not even sure why he does it. It's no great showoff feat to be able to catch a routine fly, which is the only time he does it. And now this. Hopefully this brings the skipping to an end. It was a personal pet peeve to me before, and now it's just dumb.

 

It's more than a pet peeve. It's stupid. And the only things that can possibly come out of it are a dropped catch or an injury. It's akin to an NFL player diving/flipping into the endzone when they could just walk in. It's akin to a player doing a 360 on a breakaway dunk when they could just 2 hand it in. It's still 2 points, 6 points, or 1 out.....no style points are given.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Depending on the extent of Sori's injury and what the Cubs do, Who do you think gets the majority of playing time. Anyone? Vance, what are your thoughts?

 

 

If Soriano ends up being day to day, I think we'll see just what we saw tonight. DeRosa in LF and Fontenot at 2b. If Soriano goes on the DL, I think Murton will be called up and thrown into the mix.

 

I don't think a trade or anything will happen unless it's a whole lot more serious than it looked to be.

[Banedon]

I've complained to my wife every time I see Soriano do that skip. It's so dumb. I'm not even sure why he does it. It's no great showoff feat to be able to catch a routine fly, which is the only time he does it. And now this. Hopefully this brings the skipping to an end. It was a personal pet peeve to me before, and now it's just dumb.

 

It's more than a pet peeve. It's stupid. And the only things that can possibly come out of it are a dropped catch or an injury. It's akin to an NFL player diving/flipping into the endzone when they could just walk in. It's akin to a player doing a 360 on a breakaway dunk when they could just 2 hand it in. It's still 2 points, 6 points, or 1 out.....no style points are given.

 

I know people say that it's a habit that he can't break and what not, but that's BS...if that was the case, he would do the same thing when there's runners on, and he doesn't. He sets himself like a professional outfielder to make a throw home. Hell...if that's what it takes, then just pretend there's runners on every play.

[Banedon]

Depending on the extent of Sori's injury and what the Cubs do, Who do you think gets the majority of playing time. Anyone? Vance, what are your thoughts?

 

 

If Soriano ends up being day to day, I think we'll see just what we saw tonight. DeRosa in LF and Fontenot at 2b. If Soriano goes on the DL, I think Murton will be called up and thrown into the mix.

 

I don't think a trade or anything will happen unless it's a whole lot more serious than it looked to be.

 

I think Murton will be in the mix too.

[Mizzou]

Sammy's still available... maybe they'll sign him to play LF. Yeah right.

[soapy]

There are several different ways for this to play out. If Soriano is day-to-day (no callups) I think we'll basically just see what we saw last night with Ward possibly getting some time in LF (DeRosa to 2B in that situation).

 

If Soriano goes on the DL, the obvious step is to call up Murton. I think Lou will do this against RHP:

 

Theriot SS

Fukudome RF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Derosa 2B

Soto C

Murton LF

Pie CF

 

I think I would do this, though I acknowledge Lou isn't likely to:

 

Murton LF

Fukudome RF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Soto C

Derosa 2B

Pie/Johnson CF

Theriot/Cedeno SS

 

I like Murton leading off instead of Fukudome simply because I think Fukudome is less likely to hit into a DP. This is purely speculative and subjective. I haven't looked at the numbers to back that up. Murton just seem to hit a large number of grounders.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Maybe Soriano needs a little DL time to get his act together. This team has done a great job so far, with Soriano all but absent offensively. We can bring up Murton, and hopefully he can do a good job, and drive up his trade value.

[Bull]

This is an injury you'd expect from Moises Alou. Little hop results in a muscle strain. Soriano's legs are looking shaky enough that it's not unlikely he'll need to move to 1B in the not too distant future. The hugeness of his contract makes it financially unnacceptable to let him break down if it can be avoided. Lee is a good trading chip and I can see him moved in this offseason or the next to open up 1B for Soriano.

 

So maybe if soriano peed on his leg...

[fromthestretch]

Regardless of what he did last year in the minors, that is where he belongs if they want him playing everyday because he is not a everyday major leaguer yet

 

Because as we all know, every prospect ever in the history of the game turned into an "everyday major leaguer" while they were in the minors.

[woodchip2153]

I've complained to my wife every time I see Soriano do that skip. It's so dumb. I'm not even sure why he does it. It's no great showoff feat to be able to catch a routine fly, which is the only time he does it. And now this. Hopefully this brings the skipping to an end. It was a personal pet peeve to me before, and now it's just dumb.

 

It's more than a pet peeve. It's stupid. And the only things that can possibly come out of it are a dropped catch or an injury. It's akin to an NFL player diving/flipping into the endzone when they could just walk in. It's akin to a player doing a 360 on a breakaway dunk when they could just 2 hand it in. It's still 2 points, 6 points, or 1 out.....no style points are given.

 

I know people say that it's a habit that he can't break and what not, but that's BS...if that was the case, he would do the same thing when there's runners on, and he doesn't. He sets himself like a professional outfielder to make a throw home. Hell...if that's what it takes, then just pretend there's runners on every play.

 

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that he said he does because when he first started playing in the outfield he dropped a lot of routine fly balls because he lost his concentration, so he developed this hop so he'd keep his concentration on catching the ball. It worked so he kept doing it.

[10man]

and after watching tonites game, pie is officially an offensive black hole

 

Yep. He is so overmatched at the plate it's comical at times.

 

The question now is do you keep him with the big league team and give him a start every 10 games or so and let him be a late inning defensive replacement or send him down and let him work on shortening his swing?

 

I know, I know...he crushes AAA pitching and has nothing more to prove. Clearly he does have more to prove because nothing he did down there is translating here and now.

 

i know he's been bad. but can you really give up on him 2 weeks into the season? if he's struggling like this in june, then i'd look for some other solutions.

It's true. Too early to give up on Pie. Soriano (before he got injured) was doing as badly and no one is about to give up on him this early. Yes I know that Sori already has seasons of proven production behind him, but the fact is, if you look up the early careers of most of the great MLB hitters, they didn't do too hot either. There are very few who raked right at the start like Pujols did.

[apete6]

You know its a bad signing when Jayson Stark and Steve Phillips (usually idiots) say that this really has no effect on the Cubs. They're like "he's batting 175 and can't do anything on the bases". If anything, this lets them get a normal lineup together and then bat Soriano 6th or 7th when he comes back.

 

Murton LF

Fukudome RF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Soto C

DeRosa 2B

Pie CF

Theriot SS

 

Although you could get this craptacular effort:

 

Theriot SS

Reed Johnson LF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Fukudome RF

Soto C

DeRosa 2B

Pie CF

[Keener98]

Maybe Soriano will be out for the year and the Cubs will sign Bonds :rotfl:

[rynefan]

I could use a break from Soriano and the false hope I feel every time he's up to bat. He still swings at the same garbage.

[Soul]

Bring up Murton. I don't see how Matt Murton isn't a flat-out better player than Soriano at the moment. Both are butchers in the field, but at least with Murt you won't get the flailing at junk all day long.

 

Sori's not going to be productive until the Summer anyway. He's not going to be out that long, I don't think. He'll still be able to have his hot streak in June/July/August. No big deal.

 

And if had to judge, I'd say this injury was almost certainly the result of not warming up for the game correctly. 1st inning, chilly April night -- injury happens on a non-stressful play. For $130 million I would think that buys you a player who at least prepares for the game correctly. Jesus.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Soul

[bring stone back]

Love the anti-logic of "helping" a player who is "overmatched" by benching him. What is he gonna learn through, osmosis? Magic?

 

I don't know who you're talking to but I didn't once consider this as "helping" Pie by benching him. I'm suggesting benching him because he isn't hitting the baseball and Reed Johnson is.

 

The manager's job is to put players in a position to succeed and give the Cubs the best chance to win every day - that would be Reed Johnson.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I dont know abou giving up on Pie, but I just dont think this is his year. Sure, hes great on defense, but his bat is putrid, and when were trying to avoid a 100 year drought, this is no time for on the job training, especially if we have a better bat for the job. Felix needs a little moe time in Iowa to get his confidence back. Hopefully he can knock around some AAAers, and then come back.

[VanceJergins]

You know its a bad signing when Jayson Stark and Steve Phillips (usually idiots) say that this really has no effect on the Cubs. They're like "he's batting 175 and can't do anything on the bases". If anything, this lets them get a normal lineup together and then bat Soriano 6th or 7th when he comes back.

 

Murton LF

Fukudome RF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Soto C

DeRosa 2B

Pie CF

Theriot SS

 

Although you could get this craptacular effort:

 

Theriot SS

Reed Johnson LF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Fukudome RF

Soto C

DeRosa 2B

Pie CF

 

Unfortunately, I think the 2nd option is much more likely.

[bring stone back]

Derrek Lee is so not getting traded in the offseason.

 

Felix had his chance, he started 5 games, banish him to hell.

 

I don't think hell is necessary - the bench will do just fine.