2008 Hall of Fame - Goose Gossage elected

[bukie]

Blyleven had 60 career shutouts. Got to figure he won some of those.

 

Yes, I understand.

 

I'm not standing by the authenticity of the guy's statement, it's just what I heard.

 

Absolutely, not tearing into you, just trying to find some semblance of a backing for the position.

[bukie]

Last piece of Blyleven support, as it's already too late again for this year: http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/2002/0728/1411078.html

 

Yes, he was a better pitcher than Nolan Ryan. Second-best pitcher of his era, of which 8 pitchers are in the HOF.

[Jon]

After a quick google search, it looks like someone posted the same stat that they heard on MLB Radio on Friday. I believe it was on a Yankees message board.

 

But yeah, I just can't see that being true. Perhaps he had an 0-40 record in the 60 games he had given up 2 runs or less and went into the 7th inning excluding the games he won? It's a poorly organized stat, but if there were 60 such games that he didn't win, losing 2/3rds of them still shows pretty terrible support from the offense and bullpen.

[rocket]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CAL/CAL199205300.shtml

 

blyleven goes 7 innings without giving up a run, and wins the game.

[OleMissCub]

But yeah, I just can't see that being true. Perhaps he had an 0-40 record in the 60 games he had given up 2 runs or less and went into the 7th inning excluding the games he won? It's a poorly organized stat, but if there were 60 such games that he didn't win, losing 2/3rds of them still shows pretty terrible support from the offense and bullpen.

 

Must have been something like that.

 

Well here's one stat for Bly that we CAN verify: He has as many career shutouts as Glavine and Maddog COMBINED.

[bukie]

But yeah, I just can't see that being true. Perhaps he had an 0-40 record in the 60 games he had given up 2 runs or less and went into the 7th inning excluding the games he won? It's a poorly organized stat, but if there were 60 such games that he didn't win, losing 2/3rds of them still shows pretty terrible support from the offense and bullpen.

 

Must have been something like that.

 

Well here's one stat for Bly that we CAN verify: He has as many career shutouts as Glavine and Maddog COMBINED.

 

It's a different era of pitching to be sure, but Blyleven had more career shutouts than the entire league did last year.

[haltz]

Blyleven went into the seventh inning having given up 2 runs or less 323 times. He lost 46 of those games.

 

So that's a Win% of .857 in those games. I'm underwhelmed by this tragedy.

 

EDIT: Must've been 7 innings, not "into the seventh". He lost 40 of those, but I have no idea where the 60 comes from. LINK

 

Win% was .854.

 

EDIT2: Greg Maddux has a Win% of .865 in games where he went seven innings and gave up less than two runs. How many times did he take the loss? 41

[DenverCubs]

If you're just going to cherry pick random outings to show that someone has abysmal run support, why not just go all the way. 46 times Blyleven went into the seventh inning having given up 2 runs or less and he lost every single time.

EDIT: I was trying making fun of whomever made up the original stat...not a Hanson brother.

Edited January 8, 2008 by DenverCubs

[haltz]

I must be typing in Esperanto today.

[imb]

How could anyone believe that original stat was true in the first place, anyway?

[RynoRules]

Bert should be in. He's getting hosed, IMO, b/c he played in crappy markets on crappy teams.

 

Good to see a Cub get in, BTW. :D

[TruffleShuffle]

Tim Raines only getting 24 percent of the vote is a travesty. It's further proof of the ignorance of the BBWAA.

 

tim raines: 2500 games played, 123.9 WARP3, 24.3% of votes

alan trammell: 2293 games played, 129.4 WARP3, 18.2% of votes

bert blyleven: 692 games pitched, 146.1 WARP3, 61.9% of votes

 

...

 

jim rice: 2089 games played, 83.2 WARP3, 72.2% of votes

andre dawson: 2627 games played, 105.3 WARP3, 65.9% of votes.

 

 

what a joke. i'm still convinced that trammell's omission is the most egregious, and aside from ron santo, he's the most deserving person not in the Hall to deserve a spot (not counting people whose off-the-field issues are keeping them out: shoeless joe, pete rose, mark mcgwire)

[OleMissCub]

jim rice: 2089 games played, 83.2 WARP3, 72.2% of votes

 

That's just so pathetic. It's basically David Justice. Certainly worthy of election to the hall... :roll:

 

Question....someone told me today that Andre Dawson said that he wouldn't wear a Cubs or Expos cap on his plaque if he were to ever make it...he'd wear a Red Sox one. Is that true?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

jim rice: 2089 games played, 83.2 WARP3, 72.2% of votes

 

That's just so pathetic. It's basically David Justice. Certainly worthy of election to the hall... :roll:

 

Question....someone told me today that Andre Dawson said that he wouldn't wear a Cubs or Expos cap on his plaque if he were to ever make it...he'd wear a Red Sox one. Is that true?

I don't think he'd have that choice, would he?

[SouthSideRyan]

The HOF will accept input from a player, but it's ultimately the hall's decision, and Dawson would certainly wind up an Expo or Cub.

[BigbadB]

After a quick google search, it looks like someone posted the same stat that they heard on MLB Radio on Friday. I believe it was on a Yankees message board.

 

But yeah, I just can't see that being true. Perhaps he had an 0-40 record in the 60 games he had given up 2 runs or less and went into the 7th inning excluding the games he won? It's a poorly organized stat, but if there were 60 such games that he didn't win, losing 2/3rds of them still shows pretty terrible support from the offense and bullpen.

 

Not that I support that particular stat, but what the guy is trying to say is that there were 60 instances that Blyleven should have a "W" in the win column for his quality start, but instead took an "L".

 

Kerry Wood had a similar problem in 2002. There were a lot of games that he deserved a win, but his offense failed him.

[Keener98]

Apparently Rick Tellander of the Tribune took up the position that he wouldnt vote for anybody because of the steroid era. What a jackass. How in the hell can he punish guys like Dawson, and Blyleven who played in the 70's and 80's mainly, for what todays athletes are supposedly doing. His argument is "how does he know these guys were clean"? Well Rick how do we know you are a coked up prostitute? Give me a break. He should have his vote yanked from him. Just another reason why its crap that writers are the ones who vote for this.

[cl smooth]

jim rice: 2089 games played, 83.2 WARP3, 72.2% of votes

 

That's just so pathetic. It's basically David Justice. Certainly worthy of election to the hall... :roll:

 

Question....someone told me today that Andre Dawson said that he wouldn't wear a Cubs or Expos cap on his plaque if he were to ever make it...he'd wear a Red Sox one. Is that true?

 

dawson has been quoted in the past stating that if he were to be elected to the hall of fame, his choice would be to go in as a cub.

[fibro]

Apparently Rick Tellander of the Tribune took up the position that he wouldnt vote for anybody because of the steroid era. What a jackass. How in the hell can he punish guys like Dawson, and Blyleven who played in the 70's and 80's mainly, for what todays athletes are supposedly doing. His argument is "how does he know these guys were clean"? Well Rick how do we know you are a coked up prostitute? Give me a break. He should have his vote yanked from him. Just another reason why its crap that writers are the ones who vote for this.

 

Tellander was just on the score with Mully and Handley. While on the surface what he did seems stupid I thought he defended himself fairly well but I still think he should have voted. It is up on The Scores front page now. He also rips Mike North which was great.

 

http://www.670thescore.com/

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

wow, Telender is such a piece of chit.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

So, I guess Dawson wants to beat the crap out of Telender...lets get these 2 in a room togheter.

[Derwood]

Jim Rice's career OPS is 20 points lower than Ellis Burks

[Illini Iceman]

Apparently Rick Tellander of the Tribune took up the position that he wouldnt vote for anybody because of the steroid era. What a jackass. How in the hell can he punish guys like Dawson, and Blyleven who played in the 70's and 80's mainly, for what todays athletes are supposedly doing. His argument is "how does he know these guys were clean"? Well Rick how do we know you are a coked up prostitute? Give me a break. He should have his vote yanked from him. Just another reason why its crap that writers are the ones who vote for this.

 

Tellander was just on the score with Mully and Handley. While on the surface what he did seems stupid I thought he defended himself fairly well but I still think he should have voted. It is up on The Scores front page now. He also rips Mike North which was great.

 

http://www.670thescore.com/

 

He defended himself fairly well?

 

If he is not going to send in his ballot anyway why is he so upset that North would say he should get his vote taken away?

 

He won't vote for Dawson but he says he is willing to give Frank Thomas a pass?

 

Two callers ask why he didn't write about it back then and he says he did but then gives a bunch of examples not one of which are about steroids in baseball.

[TruffleShuffle]

at the risk of angering everyone on this board, i say that andre dawson does not have much of an argument to be a hall of famer

[bukie]

at the risk of angering everyone on this board, i say that andre dawson does not have much of an argument to be a hall of famer

 

He's like the Jim Rice of the 80's. With a worse OBP.