MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[RedFlash]

He's tried to win, thus, he's a good GM? He's brought in some talent, thus, he's a good GM?

 

We have very different standards, apparently.

 

Or maybe your standards are lower then mine. Because any GM who wants to win, and does whatever takes (not necessarily meaning stupid trades, signings) to win, and does this consistantly, is in my book, a good GM. Maybe your not use to the idea of a GM who wants to win, because Hendry definately does want to win. Hendry does get his fair share of blame, but it's not because he isn't trying. I honestly believe people on this board, underrate Hendry as a GM.

[rawaction]

What I don't understand is how people know it's gonna be done in a week. If it's gonna be done in a week, why can't it be done in a day? Do the Orioles really need to spend a week scouting the few available prospects that are attainable to them? If so, what's gonna happen next Tuesday that hasn't happened already? Will Donald Veal hit 99mph on a radar gun and make MacPhail and Angelos say, "Ok, we gotta get him today!" Will Jose Ceda walk 3 straight batters and MacPhail and Angelos say, "Oh, we don't want him".

 

To borrow a line from the great, Dennis Green, THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE. Nothing is gonna change next week that can't change today. The Cubs know what the O's want. The O's know what the Cubs are willing to give up.

[Derwood]

He's tried to win, thus, he's a good GM? He's brought in some talent, thus, he's a good GM?

 

We have very different standards, apparently.

 

Or maybe your standards are lower then mine. Because any GM who wants to win, and does whatever takes (not necessarily meaning stupid trades, signings) to win, and does this consistantly, is in my book, a good GM. Maybe your not use to the idea of a GM who wants to win, because Hendry definately does want to win. Hendry does get his fair share of blame, but it's not because he isn't trying. I honestly believe people on this board, underrate Hendry as a GM.

 

Actually winning >>>>>>>>>>>> Desire to win

[RedFlash]

He's tried to win, thus, he's a good GM? He's brought in some talent, thus, he's a good GM?

 

We have very different standards, apparently.

 

Or maybe your standards are lower then mine. Because any GM who wants to win, and does whatever takes (not necessarily meaning stupid trades, signings) to win, and does this consistantly, is in my book, a good GM. Maybe your not use to the idea of a GM who wants to win, because Hendry definately does want to win. Hendry does get his fair share of blame, but it's not because he isn't trying. I honestly believe people on this board, underrate Hendry as a GM.

 

Actually winning >>>>>>>>>>>> Desire to win

 

That falls on the players to play, and the manager to managed the players. Not the GM. Hendry, IMO, has done an admirably job putting together this team. That's not to say there isn't holes in the team....as of right now, until proven otherwise, the Cubs have holes at CF/SS and C. But otherwise, the Cubs are in good shape to repeat as NL Central champs.

[RedFlash]

What I don't understand is how people know it's gonna be done in a week. If it's gonna be done in a week, why can't it be done in a day? Do the Orioles really need to spend a week scouting the few available prospects that are attainable to them? If so, what's gonna happen next Tuesday that hasn't happened already? Will Donald Veal hit 99mph on a radar gun and make MacPhail and Angelos say, "Ok, we gotta get him today!" Will Jose Ceda walk 3 straight batters and MacPhail and Angelos say, "Oh, we don't want him".

 

To borrow a line from the great, Dennis Green, THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE. Nothing is gonna change next week that can't change today. The Cubs know what the O's want. The O's know what the Cubs are willing to give up.

 

I agree. If you like the players today, the chances are, you'll like the same players next week. Unless the O's are holding out hope a 2nd team comes out of the woodshed and blows them away, there isn't a reason why the O's shouldn't trade him asap. I mean, if you are going to trade him, should they be gentlemen about it, and move Roberts now, so that Roberts can get accustom to playing with his new team, in a new league?

[Derwood]

He's tried to win, thus, he's a good GM? He's brought in some talent, thus, he's a good GM?

 

We have very different standards, apparently.

 

Or maybe your standards are lower then mine. Because any GM who wants to win, and does whatever takes (not necessarily meaning stupid trades, signings) to win, and does this consistantly, is in my book, a good GM. Maybe your not use to the idea of a GM who wants to win, because Hendry definately does want to win. Hendry does get his fair share of blame, but it's not because he isn't trying. I honestly believe people on this board, underrate Hendry as a GM.

 

Actually winning >>>>>>>>>>>> Desire to win

 

That falls on the players to play, and the manager to managed the players. Not the GM. Hendry, IMO, has done an admirably job putting together this team. That's not to say there isn't holes in the team....as of right now, until proven otherwise, the Cubs have holes at CF/SS and C. But otherwise, the Cubs are in good shape to repeat as NL Central champs.

 

admirable doesn't cut it. with his payroll he has put together a pretty mediocre team

[Yestheydo]

He's tried to win, thus, he's a good GM? He's brought in some talent, thus, he's a good GM?

 

We have very different standards, apparently.

 

Or maybe your standards are lower then mine. Because any GM who wants to win, and does whatever takes (not necessarily meaning stupid trades, signings) to win, and does this consistantly, is in my book, a good GM. Maybe your not use to the idea of a GM who wants to win, because Hendry definately does want to win. Hendry does get his fair share of blame, but it's not because he isn't trying. I honestly believe people on this board, underrate Hendry as a GM.

 

Actually winning >>>>>>>>>>>> Desire to win

 

"Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win." -- Bobby Knight

[RedFlash]

He's tried to win, thus, he's a good GM? He's brought in some talent, thus, he's a good GM?

 

We have very different standards, apparently.

 

Or maybe your standards are lower then mine. Because any GM who wants to win, and does whatever takes (not necessarily meaning stupid trades, signings) to win, and does this consistantly, is in my book, a good GM. Maybe your not use to the idea of a GM who wants to win, because Hendry definately does want to win. Hendry does get his fair share of blame, but it's not because he isn't trying. I honestly believe people on this board, underrate Hendry as a GM.

 

Actually winning >>>>>>>>>>>> Desire to win

 

That falls on the players to play, and the manager to managed the players. Not the GM. Hendry, IMO, has done an admirably job putting together this team. That's not to say there isn't holes in the team....as of right now, until proven otherwise, the Cubs have holes at CF/SS and C. But otherwise, the Cubs are in good shape to repeat as NL Central champs.

 

admirable doesn't cut it. with his payroll he has put together a pretty mediocre team

 

I disagree that this current Cubs team is "mediocre". Overall it's a very solid team, a team if the bounces go our way, could win anywhere from 89 to 94 games next yr, due to the division and league. Is there holes? Yes, and I believe Hendry is working to fill those holes (it should SS, nonetheless).

[BigbadB]

When Hendry hired Dusty, he had just taken the Giants to the World Series!! I'd be willing to bet that when Hendry hired Dusty, you thought it was a GREAT signing. I'll take it one step further and say that in 2003 when the Cubs were 5 outs from the World Series themselves, you were probably one of the people holding up the "In Dusty we trusty" signs. So all of a sudden that's a bad move in your eyes? Hindsight is the red-headed step child of foresight.

 

I didn't mind the Baker signing at the time. But, I evaluate baseball talent much more than a manager of a baseball team I never really cared to watch. Yes, he did take the Giants to the World Series. Giants fans were all over Cubs.com message boards telling us how bad of a manager he really is, and I didn't buy into it. Here we are today giving Reds fans the same welcome for Dusty as Giants fans gave us, and they too aren't buying that he could really be that bad.

 

I was very upset with Dusty's in game management starting in '03. My support of him dwindled quickly. That Cubs team made it to where they were because of Zambrano, Wood, Prior and Clement, not Dusty. By '05, I was calling for his firing.

 

I don't think you can really call it hindsight as much as learning that teams won games in spite of Dusty rather than because of Dusty. If I knew what kind of in game manager Dusty was, I never would have supported his signing (not that I really have much choice in the first place). However, I would expect the GM of a major league baseball team to know what a manager brings to the table and whether those things will win you more baseball games than you lose. Hendry failed in that aspect. If you honestly expect your GM to only know as much about a former manager as I do, then you are giving the GM too much of a pass.

 

I'll take full guilt in originally liking the Dusty signing. But, Hendry is the guy who actually signed him. I honestly didn't think anyone could be worse than Don Baylor and Dusty proved me wrong.

[rawaction]

I didn't want Dusty. But I was probably more indifferent on him than either opposed or for him. I didn't like his track record with young players, and back then the Cubs had a bevy of young talent with guys like Patterson, Cruz, Zambrano, Kelton, etc. I did like that he seemed to be a good motivator and a "player's coach". I liken it to the Kelvin Sampson hiring at IU. Both had pretty decent success, having winning teams and getting to the post season pretty consistently. But neither had the X's and O's ability that I felt would be ultimately successful in winning a championship.

[SABR Gamer]

He's tried to win, thus, he's a good GM? He's brought in some talent, thus, he's a good GM?

 

We have very different standards, apparently.

 

Or maybe your standards are lower then mine. Because any GM who wants to win, and does whatever takes (not necessarily meaning stupid trades, signings) to win, and does this consistantly, is in my book, a good GM. Maybe your not use to the idea of a GM who wants to win, because Hendry definately does want to win. Hendry does get his fair share of blame, but it's not because he isn't trying. I honestly believe people on this board, underrate Hendry as a GM.

 

Actually winning >>>>>>>>>>>> Desire to win

 

That falls on the players to play, and the manager to managed the players. Not the GM. Hendry, IMO, has done an admirably job putting together this team. That's not to say there isn't holes in the team....as of right now, until proven otherwise, the Cubs have holes at CF/SS and C. But otherwise, the Cubs are in good shape to repeat as NL Central champs.

 

You just called GEOVANY SOTO a hole. Around here the ground that Soto walks on is considered holy, and he is a shoo-in to win the next 47 MVP awards...so you're wrong.

 

Felix Pie is really good too....but back to the point of you're post......Hendry sucks....

[SABR Gamer]

I could do a better job as GM of the Cubs....Anyway, all I would do is listen to Meph and do what he tells me to do.

[RedFlash]

You just called GEOVANY SOTO a hole. Around here the ground that Soto walks on is considered holy, and he is a shoo-in to win the next 47 MVP awards...so you're wrong.

 

Felix Pie is really good too....but back to the point of you're post......Hendry sucks....

 

I love Soto as much as the next fan does, but he is considered a "hole" until proven otherwise.

 

You're right...Hendry sucks....at being a bad GM. But seeing as he isn't a "bad gm" nor does he "suck", your reasoning lacks reason. But hey we can go back to having Ed Lynch as GM. :D

[badnews]

Jim Hendry is a flat out crappy GM. He's presided in some way or another, for a long time over a farm system that hasn't produced an impact position player in over 20 years now. His drafting is governing by bizarre hang-ups that only make sense to him. Time after time he drafts some guy Baseball America is surprised to see go at that position, telling us to trust him and not them, and we get crap time after time. 20+ years with no impact position player? That's bull****. It is. Spin it all you want, it's utterly ludicrous. Even the Giants got a good 3 year run out of Rich Aurilia.

 

Hendry defenders always cite the ancient past when it comes to trades. He just overpays for mediocrity. He made a good trade with Todd Walker and is now probably overvaluing Ceda, a 20 year old who averaged more than 6 walks per 9 innings in the pitcher friendly Midwest League and looks like an even bet to become the next Frank Beltran. Let's all overvalue our relief prospects, that's intelligent. Most of them work out, like Santiago Casilla, his evil twin Jairo Garcia, Jose Capellan, Joey Devine, Craig Hansen, Bill Bray, Travis Bowyer, Brandon League... if there's one guy you sell high on...

 

The Kendall trade was stupid. Beane was eager to get Suzuki ABs and dump Kendall. The Trachsel trade was a magnificent feat of idiocy - there is no other GM in this solar system who would trade 3 prospects, including one of our Top 10 according to BA, for one month of Trachsel. Basically every team the past 5 years has gotten a pitcher better than Trachsel for cheaper... the Lohse trades, the Moyer trade, etc. He traded Greg Maddux for Cesar Izturis when there was every indication the Dodgers were going to send the Cubs prospects (I don't have this notorized by Bud Selig so please feel free to say it's garbage to try and vindicate Hendry), but everything I read said it was Kuo and another guy before Izturis, and I liked Kuo. He blew out his arm, yeah, but I liked him. Izturis was just crap and Hendry gave us the "All Star" line.

 

And where would Hendry be without his money to bail his sorry ass out? Does any GM turn around and peddle off his unwanted acquisitions with cash as quickly as Hendry? Seriously, it gets to the point where you know every trade is going to have "plus cash" attached to it. Hawkins dumped with cash after 1.5 years, Jacque Jones dumped with cash after a year, they were looking to dump Dempster's salary, Marquis's salary, after just 1 year, how many others? A good GM shouldn't be looking to dump players one year after they sign them so often, like Jones and Marquis.

 

The last four years of Soriano's contract are going to be brutal. Even inflation won't fix that. Zambrano wanted Oswalt type money after Oswalt signed an extension, but Hendry wisely put it off and cost the Cubs more money.

 

He has a large payroll and the Cubs have not made the playoffs for 2 years in a row for how long? Oh wow - he sank a boatload of money into the team last offseason and the result was an 85 win team in a piece of crap division. Fabulous! Money well spent. The team is saddled with these backloaded contracts so that in another 3 years we'll probably look like the Giants from a few years back.

 

He spends money on the draft abominably. For the amount of money he signed Samardzija and Huseby with, he could've signed 10 great prospects... Latos, Jordan Walden, Lars Anderson, they all signed for about $1 million. Hell, if he was throwing around that kind of money he could've signed Alex White, I think a $3 million signing bonus would make White re-think that committment. But since everyone wants to defend Hendry let's just bury our heads in the sand and say it wasn't possible. Instead we threw a ton of money on another one of Hendry's fetishes - a crap 6'6' righthanded pitcher from Notre Dame. Oh yeah, and Huseby, a guy Baseball America practically never heard of. But Hendry did, so that's okay, Hendry knows more than Baseball America.

 

Except for Brian Sabean and Bavasi, every GM worse than Hendry is either a new hire or has already been fired. Because we have no standards. Remember when the Astros GM got fired after he took the team to the World Series? If Jim Hendry took the team to the World Series he'd get a 40 year extension no matter what. Other teams have actual standards and Hendry would've been gone long ago from any of them.

 

But Hendry's a good GM because the Tribune gives him money to spend. Give me a break. I've had it with Hendry, I've had it with Hendry apologists who equivocate and spin everything. This is the Jim Hendry who gave Neifi Perez a ridiculous contract, this is the Jim Hendry who thought Kaz Matsui would be a great addition and apparently only the outcry stopped him from another piece of crap signing. I've had it with the crap signings, I've had it with the crap trades, I've had it with the piss-poor drafts.

 

Why is it we all knew Travis Snider would be a better draft pick than Colvin and his hired goon who tried to pass him off as the next Alex Rios didn't? Why is that we all knew a Jordan Walden or a Matt Latos would be a better signing than Chris Huseby, but Hendry didn't? Why do small children in Burkina Faso know these things and Hendry doesn't?

 

Because he's that good. Looking like an ineffectual weakling and getting jerked around for 3+ months on this Roberts thing, when anyone else who had an ounce of dignity would've eventually said "Here's my very best offer, take it or leave it," that's all part of his master plan.

 

Give me a break. Hendry fans can stick to their dirt-low standards, personally I expect a little more.

[XZero771679666304]

Jim Hendry is a flat out crappy GM. He's presided in some way or another, for a long time over a farm system that hasn't produced an impact position player in over 20 years now. His drafting is governing by bizarre hang-ups that only make sense to him. Time after time he drafts some guy Baseball America is surprised to see go at that position, telling us to trust him and not them, and we get crap time after time. 20+ years with no impact position player? That's bull****. It is. Spin it all you want, it's utterly ludicrous. Even the Giants got a good 3 year run out of Rich Aurilia.

 

 

Not to nitpick, but if you're bringing Rich Aurilia into this, I'll say Mark Grace was a lot better for a lot longer.

 

But I agree with you overall.

[badnews]

No, I said the Cubs haven't produced an impact position in 20+ years. Look at when Grace came along for the Cubs. Grace was obviously better than Aurilia but I've noticed when people say "Oh wait, the Giants are as bad as the Cubs in developing position players" (And this brilliant gets Jim Hendry completely off the hook, let me tell you), I'm just pointing out Aurilia had a good stretch.

 

Seriously, how bad are these arguments for Hendry? "He's brought in some good talent." Oh wow! We've got a $100+ million payroll and we have some talent! Let's all get together and celebrate Jim Hendry's awesomeness for not putting together the 2003 Mets... yet. Or "At least Jim Hendry isn't Ed Lynch." Fantastic! Just lower your standards! Instead of expecting and demanding, you know, a good GM, we expect one that's somewhat less horrid.

 

Is this battered woman syndrome or something? "My boyfriend isn't so bad. My last boyfriend beat me until I had to go to the Emergency Room a couple of times. My current boyfriend is only unemployed so I support him and he verbally abuses me. But he doesn't hit me so I'm grateful!" Give me a break.

 

Jim Hendry could be GM for the next ten years and the Cubs could finish last place every single year and the Hendry cult would still be crowing over the Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez trades. Huzzah! Even Giant fans don't cling to the Giants' World Series appearance to try and bail out Sabean.

[Tracer Bullet]

He's tried to win, thus, he's a good GM? He's brought in some talent, thus, he's a good GM?

 

We have very different standards, apparently.

 

Or maybe your standards are lower then mine. Because any GM who wants to win, and does whatever takes (not necessarily meaning stupid trades, signings) to win, and does this consistantly, is in my book, a good GM. Maybe your not use to the idea of a GM who wants to win, because Hendry definately does want to win. Hendry does get his fair share of blame, but it's not because he isn't trying. I honestly believe people on this board, underrate Hendry as a GM.

 

Wait, my standards are lower? I think our GM, who despite a huge payroll and years on the job with this team, can't put a consistent winner together is bad. You think our GM is good b/c he wants to win and tries to win. And you think winning 90 games in the worst division in baseball with a payroll clearly higher than the competition is good performance? And my standards are lower? Are you serious?

 

This isn't junior high. Wanting to win and trying to win don't get you any points. I don't know of any GMs that want to lose. Some may make really stupid moves, but they still want to win - so that makes them all good? We certainly have some good players. But Hendry has done a terrible job of compiling a team. This team in this division should win 90 games in a down year and 100 or more in a good year.

[badnews]

There's one question I'd like the Hendry supporters to answer: How can you say the man who thought setting us up this season with a middle infield of Kaz Matsui and Ryan Theriot was a good way to go about winning the World Series is a good GM?

 

Oh, I know. He didn't sign Matsui. But even considering such a thing as seriously as he did is legal proof of his insanity in at least 18 states. Ryan Theriot and Kaz Matsui. He has nothing but great things to say about Theriot. Nobody expects him to bash Theriot. But he really believes this crap. The Cubs finished dead last in offense from the shortstop position in the NL in 2007. So what is Jim Hendry's fabulous plan? Declare that Theriot is fantastic and do nothing to address the situation but spend 3+ months getting jerked around in pursuit of another 2b. Instead of, you know, actually getting a sack and telling the Orioles at some point "This is my best offer. Take it or leave it."

 

Gutless. Absolutely gutless. After 3 months there should be nothing left to discuss. **** or get off the pot.

Edited March 12, 2008 by badnews

[soapy]

i heart badnews

[Bull]

i heart badnews

nonews is badnews

[BigbadB]

Is this battered woman syndrome or something? "My boyfriend isn't so bad. My last boyfriend beat me until I had to go to the Emergency Room a couple of times. My current boyfriend is only unemployed so I support him and he verbally abuses me. But he doesn't hit me so I'm grateful!" Give me a break.

 

A beautiful description of Mr. Jim Hendry. =D>

 

That's a pretty good description of Ed Lynch, too.

[UMFan83]

=D> =D> =D> =D>

 

That's kind of what I wanted to say but you said it 100 times better than I could have ever.

[Derwood]

gooney approves of badnews' message

[YearofDaCubs]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.osnotes12mar12,0,4461319.story?track=rss

 

 

Around the horn

Troy Patton has an appointment in Los Angeles with Dr. Lewis Yocum on Monday and is expected to have surgery to repair the torn labrum in his left shoulder the next day. ... Utility infielder Scott Moore (abdominal strain) was cleared to resume swinging yesterday, and Trembley is hopeful he'll be able to return to the lineup this weekend. ... A day after going to a doctor, outfielder Luke Scott (flu) was feeling much better and is expected to return within the next couple of days. ... Brian Roberts was 1-for-3 and scored a run yesterday in front of two Chicago Cubs scouts.

[C.C.]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.osnotes12mar12,0,4461319.story?track=rss

 

 

Around the horn

Troy Patton has an appointment in Los Angeles with Dr. Lewis Yocum on Monday and is expected to have surgery to repair the torn labrum in his left shoulder the next day. ... Utility infielder Scott Moore (abdominal strain) was cleared to resume swinging yesterday, and Trembley is hopeful he'll be able to return to the lineup this weekend. ... A day after going to a doctor, outfielder Luke Scott (flu) was feeling much better and is expected to return within the next couple of days. ... Brian Roberts was 1-for-3 and scored a run yesterday in front of two Chicago Cubs scouts.

 

 

How many months are Cubs and O's scouts going to scout each other?