MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[RammyFanny]

Haha, now Peace and BigBird are saying that Roberts might not be traded and that we aren't offering anything acceptable.

 

I don't have a clue what to think anymore, but the potential of Gallagher in our rotation makes me feel pretty good no matter what.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59110&page=43

[Sterling30]

Haha, now Peace and BigBird are saying that Roberts might not be traded and that we aren't offering anything acceptable.

 

I don't have a clue what to think anymore, but the potential of Gallagher in our rotation makes me feel pretty good no matter what.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59110&page=43

I like Roberts a lot, but I have no problem going to war with DeRosa as an everyday 2B.

 

Strengthen the rotation!

[Rob]

Ha! It looks like Hendry might've gotten fed up and dropped the offer down a few notches.

[Backtobanks]

Ha! It looks like Hendry might've gotten fed up and dropped the offer down a few notches.

 

That's what Hendry should do. Tell MacPhail that this is the offer (Gallagher, Murton, Cedeno, or whoever) for the next 24 hours, after that I reduce the offer.

[RammyFanny]

Ha! It looks like Hendry might've gotten fed up and dropped the offer down a few notches.

Way to show some Cajones, Jim.

[UMFan83]

Everyone here is going to be pissed at Jim for not getting BRob when Soto and Pie flop, Theriot is still terrible and the Cubs have 3 black holes in their lineup.

 

Not saying that is going to happen but still.

[RammyFanny]

Everyone here is going to be pissed at Jim for not getting BRob when Soto and Pie flop, Theriot is still terrible and the Cubs have 3 black holes in their lineup.

 

Not saying that is going to happen but still.

 

How would BRob improve any of those areas in the first place? We'd still have three black holes in our lineup with him unless you think DeRosa can play center, catcher, or consistent short.

[samhainn77]

Everyone here is going to be pissed at Jim for not getting BRob when Soto and Pie flop, Theriot is still terrible and the Cubs have 3 black holes in their lineup.

 

Not saying that is going to happen but still.

 

Sounds like they should be equally as pissed at Roberts for not being able to catch, play center, or play short.

 

I was a fan of the Roberts trade, mostly because I thought it might mean that Derosa could move to short. But if it's going to cost us this much, just break camp with what we've got and keep some trading chips for the deadline.

[craig]

Those orioles dudes are funny. They seem to think that Roberts should command multiple no-risk all-star likely guys. Pie might not be a star? Don't even want him. Cedeno might be good, but not certain? Don't want that. Patterson might be good, but not guaranteed? Junk. Murton? They think Orioles are so crawling with .800+ OPS outfielder prospects that Murton is superfluous. It's like they think Roberts ought to either get about as much as Bedard, or else keep him.

 

That's certainly Andy's right. If he doesn't want to trade Roberts, fine. Lets not go nuts bidding ridiculous for a guy who they'll only trade for ridiculous offer.

 

I still think Gallagher-Cedeno-Patterson or Gallagher-Murton-Patterson caliber offer is fine. A plus pitching prospect, a solid position prospect, and a question-mark position prospect. The notion that Gallagher-Murton-Cedeno isn't good enough for their mighty Orioles seems kind of silly.

 

I think the MacP stuff, whatever. He says nothing is imminent. That's similar to what he said with Seattle; eventually, they raised their offer. So his waiting paid off. Smart work by MacP. After the deal, he commented about how Seattle was really slow to give the last prospect.

 

It certainly makes sense for him to hold out again, as long as he thinks that by doing so might result in Hendry bumping an offer.

 

But I'm not sure it makes sense for them to hold Roberts back and not make a deal at all, if hendry holds firm. That might not be smart for Orioles.

 

Or perhaps Hendry has withdrawn Cedeno from the pool, and things have gotten even less attractive for Andy.

Edited February 13, 2008 by craig

[E.J.]

Everyone here is going to be pissed at Jim for not getting BRob when Soto and Pie flop, Theriot is still terrible and the Cubs have 3 black holes in their lineup.

 

Not saying that is going to happen but still.

 

We'd still have those 3 holes in the lineup with or without BRob, which makes getting BRob kind of stupid in the first place. Hendry should be looking for a SS replacement.

[RedFlash]

I know it's been mention before, but Hendry has to know to be careful about bidding against himself. I mean, he got beat down at the time for the Pierre trade. Outside of the Indians burp (which I believe proved that O's tried to drum up interests) of Guiterrez/Miller (if it was a real offer, why'd the passed?), no other team has been as seriously connected to Brian Roberts. Which leads me to believe, that most teams either do not Brian Roberts, don't want to pay the O's price for Roberts, or feel convince that Roberts is heading to the Cubs.

 

Either way, this situation needs to be taken of before ST. Don't make a move by Wednesday, then consider the deal dead.

[SweetZombieJesus]

Here's a list of 2b I'd rather have than Brian Roberts:

 

Chase Utley

Robinson Cano

Rickie Weeks

Orlando Hudson

Brandon Phillips

Howie Kendrick

 

I say that assuming equal salary on all of them. We're pretending Howie Kendrick makes $5 million and Roberts makes $5 million.

 

I call it a draw on Placido Polanco. I don't think Pedroia is better than Roberts but Roberts doesn't blow him out of the water either.

 

Utley is the only player among 2nd basemen that has more total win shares than roberts in the past three years.

 

That takes into account Roberts' not-going-to-happen-again 2005, and it doesn't really tell the whole story. Most of the guys who are better than him having been playing that long.

 

 

Huh? He may never hit as many HRs like he did in 2005 but he did you know have 24 total WS last year. Compared to 28 in 2005.

 

Weeks and Kendrick seriously call me when they actually live up to their top prospect label. One can't stay healthy and the other has been a relative bust.

[Post Count Padder]

Great offseason we're having.

[CubColtPacer]

Great offseason we're having.

 

I wouldn't call the offseason bad at all. What the Cubs haven't done is just as important as what they have done. It would have been a bad offseason if they had signed Fukudome, but they had signed Kendall and Lofton also in an effort to win now and effectively blocked Pie and Soto.

 

Sure, it's not great. The fact that the SS position is still exactly where it was before is a huge problem. Overall though, the strategy of upgrading one of the positions and letting the young players sink or swim at the others is a good one. The team has certainly improved from last season, both with acquiring new players and giving starting roles to young players that weren't given last year.

[killthegoat06]

Great offseason we're having.

I just want it to be over... I hate February.

[cbbryan]

I think you'll see the Cubs break camp with the team they have. There may be an exception in the rotation. Here is a list (Provided by Cots) of 2009 FA at positions of need. Which may be available at the deadline or before depending on his teams position.

 

Shortstops

Orlando Cabrera CWS

Alex Cintron CWS

Alex Cora BOS

Craig Counsell * MIL

Adam Everett MIN

Rafael Furcal LAD

Cristian Guzman WAS

Cesar Izturis STL

Ramon Martinez LAD

Edgar Renteria * DET

Juan Uribe CWS

 

Outfielders

Bobby Abreu NYY

Moises Alou NYM

Garret Anderson * LAA

Rocco Baldelli * TB

Willie Bloomquist SEA

Emil Brown OAK

Pat Burrell PHI

Endy Chavez NYM

Carl Crawford * TB

Adam Dunn CIN

Jim Edmonds SD

Juan Encarnacion STL

Cliff Floyd TB

Brian Giles * SD

Shawn Green NYM

Ken Griffey Jr. * CIN

Vladimir Guerrero * LAA

Raul Ibanez SEA

Jacque Jones DET

Mark Kotsay OAK

Rob Mackowiak WAS

Kevin Mench MIL

Jason Michaels * CLE

Craig Monroe MIN

Jay Payton BAL

Scott Podsednik CWS

Manny Ramirez * BOS

Juan Rivera LAA

Rondell White MIN

 

Starting Pitchers

Kris Bensen BAL

A.J. Burnett TOR (may opt out)

Paul Byrd CLE

Jon Garland LAA

Tom Glavine ATL

Mike Hampton * ATL

Rich Harden * OAK

Orlando Hernandez NYM

Jason Jennings TEX

Randy Johnson ARZ

John Lackey * LAA

Esteban Loaiza OAK

Braden Looper STL

Derek Lowe LAD

Pedro Martinez NYM

Matt Morris * PIT

Mike Mussina NYY

Jamie Moyer PHI

Mark Mulder * STL

Carl Pavano NYY

Brad Penny * LAD

Odalis Perez KC

Oliver Perez NYM

Andy Pettitte NYY

Mark Prior SD

Horatio Ramirez SEA

C.C. Sabathia CLE

Ben Sheets MIL

John Smoltz * ATL

Julian Tavarez BOS

Steve Trachsel BAL

Brett Tomko KC

Claudio Vargas MIL

Woody Williams HOU

Randy Wolf SD

 

* Indicates an option (team/player)

 

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2002/02/2008-09-free-agents.html

[cbbryan]

Just a note: A.J. Burnett can opt out after the 2008 Baseball season. If he does not his contract is for $12M in '09 and $12M in '10.

 

I think in the current market he could demand more then $12M.

[wrigley23]

it has been said numerous times. Hendry is not trying to upgrade 2B as much as upgrade at leadoff. Soriano's legs are not what they used to be. He got on base 40 pts less than brob last year & stole far fewer bases. in an effort to save his legs, he wants to move him down in the order so he can be more in a driving in runs position than as a table setter. the addition of brob & fuko balance out a lineup by giving it much higher obp, better baserunners & the rbi producers in a better position to do just that. when you consider the rocks & indians are the only teams w/ glaring holes at 2B, I agree that it appears hendry is bidding against himself. I'd give andy a final offer & then move on to addressing starting pitching, SS, CF. There is no legit reason for mcfailure to hang onto brob other than to drive up the market. The o's blow & will for some time. Keeping a 30-yr old leadoff hitter that has admitted to roids....that will be a FA in 2 yrs...makes zero sense.

[Post Count Padder]

Barring a lot of contract extensions, the 2009 offseason looks like a promising one.

[Sammy Sofa]

it has been said numerous times. Hendry is not trying to upgrade 2B as much as upgrade at leadoff. Soriano's legs are not what they used to be. He got on base 40 pts less than brob last year & stole far fewer bases. in an effort to save his legs, he wants to move him down in the order so he can be more in a driving in runs position than as a table setter. the addition of brob & fuko balance out a lineup by giving it much higher obp, better baserunners & the rbi producers in a better position to do just that. when you consider the rocks & indians are the only teams w/ glaring holes at 2B, I agree that it appears hendry is bidding against himself. I'd give andy a final offer & then move on to addressing starting pitching, SS, CF. There is no legit reason for mcfailure to hang onto brob other than to drive up the market. The o's blow & will for some time. Keeping a 30-yr old leadoff hitter that has admitted to roids....that will be a FA in 2 yrs...makes zero sense.

 

...

 

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

[WilcoFan]

it has been said numerous times. Hendry is not trying to upgrade 2B as much as upgrade at leadoff. Soriano's legs are not what they used to be. He got on base 40 pts less than brob last year & stole far fewer bases. in an effort to save his legs, he wants to move him down in the order so he can be more in a driving in runs position than as a table setter. the addition of brob & fuko balance out a lineup by giving it much higher obp, better baserunners & the rbi producers in a better position to do just that. when you consider the rocks & indians are the only teams w/ glaring holes at 2B, I agree that it appears hendry is bidding against himself. I'd give andy a final offer & then move on to addressing starting pitching, SS, CF. There is no legit reason for mcfailure to hang onto brob other than to drive up the market. The o's blow & will for some time. Keeping a 30-yr old leadoff hitter that has admitted to roids....that will be a FA in 2 yrs...makes zero sense.

 

And the broken record skips again. One more time:

 

1. Leadoff is not a position.

2. You don't know what Hendry wants any more than any other fan.

[inari]

it has been said numerous times. Hendry is not trying to upgrade 2B as much as upgrade at leadoff. Soriano's legs are not what they used to be. He got on base 40 pts less than brob last year & stole far fewer bases. in an effort to save his legs, he wants to move him down in the order so he can be more in a driving in runs position than as a table setter. the addition of brob & fuko balance out a lineup by giving it much higher obp, better baserunners & the rbi producers in a better position to do just that. when you consider the rocks & indians are the only teams w/ glaring holes at 2B, I agree that it appears hendry is bidding against himself. I'd give andy a final offer & then move on to addressing starting pitching, SS, CF. There is no legit reason for mcfailure to hang onto brob other than to drive up the market. The o's blow & will for some time. Keeping a 30-yr old leadoff hitter that has admitted to roids....that will be a FA in 2 yrs...makes zero sense.

 

By you! Over and over! I'm not even reading the rest of the post, this is just getting annoying.

[DeuceBaseman]

it has been said numerous times. Hendry is not trying to upgrade 2B as much as upgrade at leadoff. Soriano's legs are not what they used to be. He got on base 40 pts less than brob last year & stole far fewer bases. in an effort to save his legs, he wants to move him down in the order so he can be more in a driving in runs position than as a table setter. the addition of brob & fuko balance out a lineup by giving it much higher obp, better baserunners & the rbi producers in a better position to do just that. when you consider the rocks & indians are the only teams w/ glaring holes at 2B, I agree that it appears hendry is bidding against himself. I'd give andy a final offer & then move on to addressing starting pitching, SS, CF. There is no legit reason for mcfailure to hang onto brob other than to drive up the market. The o's blow & will for some time. Keeping a 30-yr old leadoff hitter that has admitted to roids....that will be a FA in 2 yrs...makes zero sense.

 

And the broken record skips again. One more time:

 

1. Leadoff is not a position.

2. You don't know what Hendry wants any more than any other fan.

 

Ok leadoff might not be a position, but it is still something you need to focus on when building your team. You need a leadoff hitter on your team just like you need a 2B. We have no leadoff hitters, so getting a leadoff hitter should be a top priority. Who cares if it is a position or not! It is a position in the batting order!

[Lefty]

it has been said numerous times. Hendry is not trying to upgrade 2B as much as upgrade at leadoff. Soriano's legs are not what they used to be. He got on base 40 pts less than brob last year & stole far fewer bases. in an effort to save his legs, he wants to move him down in the order so he can be more in a driving in runs position than as a table setter. the addition of brob & fuko balance out a lineup by giving it much higher obp, better baserunners & the rbi producers in a better position to do just that. when you consider the rocks & indians are the only teams w/ glaring holes at 2B, I agree that it appears hendry is bidding against himself. I'd give andy a final offer & then move on to addressing starting pitching, SS, CF. There is no legit reason for mcfailure to hang onto brob other than to drive up the market. The o's blow & will for some time. Keeping a 30-yr old leadoff hitter that has admitted to roids....that will be a FA in 2 yrs...makes zero sense.

 

And the broken record skips again. One more time:

 

1. Leadoff is not a position.

2. You don't know what Hendry wants any more than any other fan.

 

Ok leadoff might not be a position, but it is still something you need to focus on when building your team. You need a leadoff hitter on your team just like you need a 2B. We have no leadoff hitters, so getting a leadoff hitter should be a top priority. Who cares if it is a position or not! It is a position in the batting order!

 

No you don't! Would the Cubs score more runs with Brian Roberts leading off or Chase Utley? You want to have good players and then sort them out. This is the argument that was used for the wonderful Juan Pierre.

[Bote McBoteface]

it has been said numerous times. Hendry is not trying to upgrade 2B as much as upgrade at leadoff. Soriano's legs are not what they used to be. He got on base 40 pts less than brob last year & stole far fewer bases. in an effort to save his legs, he wants to move him down in the order so he can be more in a driving in runs position than as a table setter. the addition of brob & fuko balance out a lineup by giving it much higher obp, better baserunners & the rbi producers in a better position to do just that. when you consider the rocks & indians are the only teams w/ glaring holes at 2B, I agree that it appears hendry is bidding against himself. I'd give andy a final offer & then move on to addressing starting pitching, SS, CF. There is no legit reason for mcfailure to hang onto brob other than to drive up the market. The o's blow & will for some time. Keeping a 30-yr old leadoff hitter that has admitted to roids....that will be a FA in 2 yrs...makes zero sense.

 

And the broken record skips again. One more time:

 

1. Leadoff is not a position.

2. You don't know what Hendry wants any more than any other fan.

 

Ok leadoff might not be a position, but it is still something you need to focus on when building your team. You need a leadoff hitter on your team just like you need a 2B. We have no leadoff hitters, so getting a leadoff hitter should be a top priority. Who cares if it is a position or not! It is a position in the batting order!

 

We have a leadoff hitter. It's not a position, so we have one by default. If they signed me and had me bat first in the lineup, I'd be the leadoff hitter. It's a batting order slot...not a position...and it isn't overly important.