MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[pitchcs]

Just saw that Phil Rogers said Derrek Lee could hit 6th with the addition of Roberts...very interesting. And I think that's a solid idea as long as Theriot/whoever is 8th.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Hopefully upping the ante means replacing Marshall with Dempster.

[SouthSideRyan]

Just saw that Phil Rogers said Derrek Lee could hit 6th with the addition of Roberts...very interesting. And I think that's a solid idea as long as Theriot/whoever is 8th.

 

Derrek Lee's a good bet to have the best OBP on the team, and a pretty decent bet to be the best hitter on the team.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If we got Roberts, I wouldn't mind seeing Lee hit second.

[DenverCubs]

I read this at OH from a poster:

 

espn1300 just said trade winds were swirling, and that the cubs had upped their ante (that's all)

Jesus Balls. Upped from what, Sean, Sean and Ronny? This better not be something ridiculous.

Let's hope it's Fuld and his Fall League MVP trick worked.

 

Hopefully upping the ante means replacing Marshall with Dempster.

 

That would take the cake

Edited January 9, 2008 by DenverCubs

[Outshined_One]

I read this at OH from a poster:

 

espn1300 just said trade winds were swirling, and that the cubs had upped their ante (that's all)

More? What's next we're going to include Colvin?

 

I'm a Colvin defender, but I'd be fine giving him up while his trade value is still relatively high.

[pitchcs]

But theyre not, this board needs to realize this. Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation together at the same time, is in fact worse than Dempster and Marquis. Good lord at some of you people.

 

Care to elaborate?

 

Yes, people on this board need to take the blue tinted sunglasses off and realize this deal is a steal for us. We getting one of the best leadoff men in baseball, an all-star and another great club house guy for pretty much nothing. You guys are blowing your loads over the 2 pitching prospects that have showed us NOTHING.

 

Leadoff isn't a position.

All-Stars mean almost nothing.

I don't care if someone is the worst clubhouse guy in the world as long as they could play ball.

 

I'm not the biggest fan of this deal, but I wouldn't be bummed if it went down, as long as we made a move for another pitcher (Blanton or Burnett). Basically this isn't the trade I'm worried about (if it stands as Marshall-Gallagher-Cedeno), but what comes after this trade that concerns me.

 

Really? I would.

 

I really don't. At this point I don't care about anything but winning. Sad, maybe, but it's true.

 

I personally don't care, but I would have to think some members of the team would. Baseball is just like any other job, probably moreso with roadtrips, etc. Do you like working with jackasses?

 

I'm probably one of the few on here who actually thinks clubhouse chemistry is important (not greatly mind you, but still somewhat important).

[David]

Why would you want to give Soriano more PA's than Derrek Lee (now that you're not pandering to his desire to hit leadoff)?

[pitchcs]

If we got Roberts, I wouldn't mind seeing Lee hit second.

 

 

That would be most ideal.

[RammyFanny]

As far as i'm concerned, the infield before this rumored trade was Aramis Ramirez, Ryan Theriot, Mark DeRosa, DLee, Ronny Cedeno, Mike Fontenot. After the trade, it is Aramis Ramirez, Ryan Theriot, Mark DeRosa, Brian Roberts, DLee. I'd say that's a very nice upgrade.

 

Now this is a little more assuming, but let's say we have dealt Gallagher and Marshall in the Roberts deal. Early indications are that we would trae for another pitcher, likely Burnett, for DeRosa, possibly Dempter, plus prospect(s). The 3, 4 and 5 starters before any of the deals happening would be Rich Hill, Jason Marquis, and one of Ryan Dempster/Sean Gallagher. After a deal like the above, the 3, 4, and 5 starters would be AJ Burnett, Rich Hill, and Jason Marquis/Kevin Hart. I don't see how anyone could realistically complain about those things happening, unless we completely depleted our farm which seems like it wouldn't be the case considering we've only used ONE prospect, while getting a better rotation (which would probably require two prspects more in addition to DeRosa), to get one of the best 2b in baseball who's good for a nice little chunk of wins more than DeRosa.

 

I know the acquiring the pitcher part is speculative, but assuming it happens I just don't see how anyone could not like this offseason, unless you're really stuck on Ronny "Two good years in AAA with an extremely high BABIP" Cedeno.

[YearofDaCubs]

I read this at OH from a poster:

 

espn1300 just said trade winds were swirling, and that the cubs had upped their ante (that's all)

More? What's next we're going to include Colvin?

 

I'm a Colvin defender, but I'd be fine giving him up while his trade value is still relatively high.

So you would trade Colvin, Sean G, Sean M, and Cedeno for Roberts? I don't think I would.

[David]

FWIW, if they're dead-set on separating Roberts and Fuku, which they might be, I guess I'd go...

 

Roberts, Lee, Fukudome, Ramirez, Soriano, Soto, Pie, Theriot

[DenverCubs]

As far as i'm concerned, the infield before this rumored trade was Aramis Ramirez, Ryan Theriot, Mark DeRosa, DLee, Ronny Cedeno, Mike Fontenot. After the trade, it is Aramis Ramirez, Ryan Theriot, Mark DeRosa, Brian Roberts, DLee. I'd say that's a very nice upgrade.

 

Now this is a little more assuming, but let's say we have dealt Gallagher and Marshall in the Roberts deal. Early indications are that we would trae for another pitcher, likely Burnett, for DeRosa, possibly Dempter, plus prospect(s). The 3, 4 and 5 starters before any of the deals happening would be Rich Hill, Jason Marquis, and one of Ryan Dempster/Sean Gallagher. After a deal like the above, the 3, 4, and 5 starters would be AJ Burnett, Rich Hill, and Jason Marquis/Kevin Hart. I don't see how anyone could realistically complain about those things happening, unless we completely depleted our farm which seems like it wouldn't be the case considering we've only used ONE prospect, while getting a better rotation (which would probably require two prspects more in addition to DeRosa), to get one of the best 2b in baseball who's good for a nice little chunk of wins more than DeRosa.

 

I know the acquiring the pitcher part is speculative, but assuming it happens I just don't see how anyone could not like this offseason, unless you're really stuck on Ronny "Two good years in AAA with an extremely high BABIP" Cedeno.

If the Cubs could get Burnett, this would be a very good offseason. I'm just not sure Hendry thinks that far ahead.

[Guest]

I read this at OH from a poster:

 

espn1300 just said trade winds were swirling, and that the cubs had upped their ante (that's all)

More? What's next we're going to include Colvin?

 

I'm a Colvin defender, but I'd be fine giving him up while his trade value is still relatively high.

 

No doubt, but not in this trade.

[Butterscup1679666578]

FWIW, if they're dead-set on separating Roberts and Fuku, which they might be, I guess I'd go...

 

Roberts, Lee, Fukudome, Ramirez, Soriano, Soto, Pie, Theriot

 

I'd probably switch Soriano and Fuku, but either way that could be a pretty sexy lineup assuming Soto and Pie can play league-average ball

[mdwilla]

The Cubs better hope Lee returns to putting up big power numbers there's no reason Lee hits sixth in this Cubs lineup. Otherwise are only true power threats would be Ramirez and Soranio. Roberts and Fukodome would go along way towards helping the Cubs score some runs but there gonna need Lee's power also.

[The Voice of Reason]

But theyre not, this board needs to realize this. Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation together at the same time, is in fact worse than Dempster and Marquis. Good lord at some of you people.

 

Care to elaborate?

 

Yes, people on this board need to take the blue tinted sunglasses off and realize this deal is a steal for us. We getting one of the best leadoff men in baseball, an all-star and another great club house guy for pretty much nothing. You guys are blowing your loads over the 2 pitching prospects that have showed us NOTHING.

 

Leadoff isn't a position.

All-Stars mean almost nothing.

I don't care if someone is the worst clubhouse guy in the world as long as they could play ball.

 

I'm not the biggest fan of this deal, but I wouldn't be bummed if it went down, as long as we made a move for another pitcher (Blanton or Burnett). Basically this isn't the trade I'm worried about (if it stands as Marshall-Gallagher-Cedeno), but what comes after this trade that concerns me.

 

Really? I would.

 

 

So you would have rather had Bobby Murcer than Reggie Jackson? Bobby was loved by his Yankee teammates and Reggie was hated by them.

[David]

The Cubs better hope Lee returns to putting up big power numbers there's no reason Lee hits sixth in this Cubs lineup. Otherwise are only true power threats would be Ramirez and Soranio. Roberts and Fukodome would go along way towards helping the Cubs score some runs but there gonna need Lee's power also.

 

 

FWIW, DLee in the second half last year...

 

.302/.386/.554

 

16 HR and 17 2B in 258 AB

[David]

But theyre not, this board needs to realize this. Marshall and Gallagher in the rotation together at the same time, is in fact worse than Dempster and Marquis. Good lord at some of you people.

 

Care to elaborate?

 

Yes, people on this board need to take the blue tinted sunglasses off and realize this deal is a steal for us. We getting one of the best leadoff men in baseball, an all-star and another great club house guy for pretty much nothing. You guys are blowing your loads over the 2 pitching prospects that have showed us NOTHING.

 

Leadoff isn't a position.

All-Stars mean almost nothing.

I don't care if someone is the worst clubhouse guy in the world as long as they could play ball.

 

I'm not the biggest fan of this deal, but I wouldn't be bummed if it went down, as long as we made a move for another pitcher (Blanton or Burnett). Basically this isn't the trade I'm worried about (if it stands as Marshall-Gallagher-Cedeno), but what comes after this trade that concerns me.

 

Really? I would.

 

 

So you would have rather had Bobby Murcer than Reggie Jackson? Bobby was loved by his Yankee teammates and Reggie was hated by them.

 

Why do people need to jump on people's comments like this and take them to extremes? Obviously he wouldn't. He's just saying that a player's clubhouse demeanor and how he gets along with other players is a factor he'd take into account. Nothing wrong with that.

 

I think Murcer and Jackson is closer than it seems, though.

Edited January 9, 2008 by David

[pitchcs]

The Cubs better hope Lee returns to putting up big power numbers there's no reason Lee hits sixth in this Cubs lineup. Otherwise are only true power threats would be Ramirez and Soranio. Roberts and Fukodome would go along way towards helping the Cubs score some runs but there gonna need Lee's power also.

 

 

I can't see Derrek getting over 30 again.

[pitchcs]

The Cubs better hope Lee returns to putting up big power numbers there's no reason Lee hits sixth in this Cubs lineup. Otherwise are only true power threats would be Ramirez and Soranio. Roberts and Fukodome would go along way towards helping the Cubs score some runs but there gonna need Lee's power also.

 

 

FWIW, DLee in the second half last year...

 

.302/.386/.554

 

16 HR and 17 2B in 258 AB

 

Although...that looks mighty nice.

[David]

Also note that that's actually less than a half season, since they're Post-ASB numbers. I'm pretty sure they played a bit over 81 games Pre-ASB.

[Burtonbell]

Maybe the O's are holding out for Marshall, Gallagher, and Colvin? Maybe the Cubs bit on that one. Trade Cedeno/Murton/Demp/Marquis (not all of them) for another SP.

 

Maybe MacPhail thinks that would be a better package then the one previously thought.

[UMFan83]

The Cubs better hope Lee returns to putting up big power numbers there's no reason Lee hits sixth in this Cubs lineup. Otherwise are only true power threats would be Ramirez and Soranio. Roberts and Fukodome would go along way towards helping the Cubs score some runs but there gonna need Lee's power also.

 

 

I can't see Derrek getting over 30 again.

 

I don't think its unrealistic to see Lee get over 30. Who knows why his power numbers were so bad to start '07 (wrist or any other explanations), but he was quite studly to end the season. No 2005 Lee will never come back, but I think we could hope for 04 Lee (32 HR) at least and if you think his 2004 numbers aren't bad, consider that his OBP and SLG were both higher last year. Please don't underestimate Lee's value to the 2007 Cubs because only 22 of his hits went over the fence.

[shnsajax]

The Cubs better hope Lee returns to putting up big power numbers there's no reason Lee hits sixth in this Cubs lineup. Otherwise are only true power threats would be Ramirez and Soranio. Roberts and Fukodome would go along way towards helping the Cubs score some runs but there gonna need Lee's power also.

 

 

I can't see Derrek getting over 30 again.

 

I don't think its unrealistic to see Lee get over 30. Who knows why his power numbers were so bad to start '07 (wrist or any other explanations), but he was quite studly to end the season. No 2005 Lee will never come back, but I think we could hope for 04 Lee (32 HR) at least and if you think his 2004 numbers aren't bad, consider that his OBP and SLG were both higher last year. Please don't underestimate Lee's value to the 2007 Cubs because only 22 of his hits went over the fence.

 

I fully expect him to hit 30 hr's this season if he is healthy. I honestly think it was just as much mental as it was phsyical coming back from that injury. He is too good of an athlete and for his size not to generate that kind of power.