MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[Electron Blue]

K well this is for multiple discussions.

First off: The Murton thing don't be a jerk and be a smart alec because I said lead off position. he is a lead off hitter which would be nice to have. You cant factor in throwing arm to compare Brian Roberts and Matt Murton they play infield and outfield. Murton is a horrible fielder so don't try to tell me which I don't know how good he is that Roberts can be equal or worse than him.

 

secondly: Sorry for saying you guys just know that a few of you use that with Murton every time there is a post about him

 

thirdly: Pie he might be great in the minors, but you are making an assumption that he is better than 31 other CF's in baseball outside of Taveras that can not possibly be made right now in his career.

 

"leadoff" isn't much of a designation no matter how you slice it, that was the point. You need eight hitters, and batting order has been proven to be fairly inconsequential.

[Geech]

really the you guys wasn't a nag on anyone in particular. again I just mentioned that I dont think u can make an assumption that he is better that he is better than 31 CF's already this early in his career.

 

How many teams do you think there are in baseball?

[UK1679666180]

All im saying is Murton hasnt started a full year yet...yet u guys are saying Roberts isnt much better than him yet hes a multi-year all-star and probably one of the best leadoff hitters in the major leagues.

 

You are making far too much sense for this discussion.

uh huh

 

Really, Matt Murton is a better player than Brian Roberts. Because his OPS is higher.

 

On a blank sheet of paper they are pretty similar as far as offensive production.

 

For the Cubs, Roberts has more value. He would be the leadoff hitter putting a higher OBP at the top and pushing Soriano into a run producing role. Murton will play the role of a 4th OF'er on this team unless Pie is traded or they don't add another OF'er (unlikely).

[OleMissCub]

Not sure if this has been commented on...

 

Just heard Dave Kaplan on XM saying that he spoke to Hendry tonight about the Brian Roberts deal and he said he asked Jim whether he'd consider sending Hill in the move, to which Hendry told Kaplan "Rich is going NOWHERE".

 

He said that if he were to make a guess, the Brian Roberts deal would include Gallagher, Pie, and perhaps a few lower prospects.

 

Kaplan also said that he expects Fukudome to be playing RF for the Cubs on opening day but doesn't expect anything will be done until next week.

[rocket]

without wading through the thread, how close is this to getting done?

 

 

...

[rchap24]

K well this is for multiple discussions.

First off: The Murton thing don't be a jerk and be a smart alec because I said lead off position. he is a lead off hitter which would be nice to have. You cant factor in throwing arm to compare Brian Roberts and Matt Murton they play infield and outfield. Murton is a horrible fielder so don't try to tell me which I don't know how good he is that Roberts can be equal or worse than him.

 

secondly: Sorry for saying you guys just know that a few of you use that with Murton every time there is a post about him

 

thirdly: Pie he might be great in the minors, but you are making an assumption that he is better than 31 other CF's in baseball outside of Taveras that can not possibly be made right now in his career.

 

Leadoff hitter is not a position in the game of baseball.

what is your problem, I made a mistake on saying that if thats your best comeback on trying to make me look bad then u obviously have no case in that argument

[brinoch]

without wading through the thread, how close is this to getting done?

 

Probably not all that close.

 

Anything's gotta go through Angelos, and well, that can take a while. Or it might be completely hosed.

[Outshined_One]

without wading through the thread, how close is this to getting done?

 

 

*Adds posting Rick Roll to things that I will ban people for when I become the next mod.*

[Mizzou]

without wading through the thread, how close is this to getting done?

 

 

...

I probably laughed more than I should have at your response to that.

[Electron Blue]

Not sure if this has been commented on...

 

Just heard Dave Kaplan on XM saying that he spoke to Hendry tonight about the Brian Roberts deal and he said he asked Jim whether he'd consider sending Hill in the move, to which Hendry told Kaplan "Rich is going NOWHERE".

 

He said that if he were to make a guess, the Brian Roberts deal would include Gallagher, Pie, and perhaps a few lower prospects.

 

Kaplan also said that he expects Fukudome to be playing RF for the Cubs on opening day but doesn't expect anything will be done until next week.

 

strange. Levine said expect it tonight or early tomorrow. Surely one of these men wouldn't be incorrect?!?! :D

[Guest]

K well this is for multiple discussions.

First off: The Murton thing don't be a jerk and be a smart alec because I said lead off position. he is a lead off hitter which would be nice to have. You cant factor in throwing arm to compare Brian Roberts and Matt Murton they play infield and outfield. Murton is a horrible fielder so don't try to tell me which I don't know how good he is that Roberts can be equal or worse than him.

 

secondly: Sorry for saying you guys just know that a few of you use that with Murton every time there is a post about him

 

thirdly: Pie he might be great in the minors, but you are making an assumption that he is better than 31 other CF's in baseball outside of Taveras that can not possibly be made right now in his career.

Actually, Ping said that he'd be the second best CF in the NL. So after Pie & Taveras, there's only 14 others he'd have to be better than. With Edmonds and Jones losing several steps each, I can't really think of too many outstanding defensive CF's in the NL - can you?

[UK1679666180]

thirdly: Pie he might be great in the minors, but you are making an assumption that he is better than 31 other CF's in baseball outside of Taveras that can not possibly be made right now in his career.

 

I put 2nd best in the NL.

 

I'd put Granderson, Crisp, Hunter, and Ichiro ahead of Pie as well from the AL. Matthews Jr. has a very good case as well.

[Abe Frohman]

 

"leadoff" isn't much of a designation no matter how you slice it, that was the point. You need eight hitters, and batting order has been proven to be fairly inconsequential.

 

Respectfully, that really is only an opinion.

[Mephistopheles]

Under the assumption that this deal goes through, murton is traded and roberts or dero cant play SS and fukudome is signed...the cubs ought to go with this:

 

1. Brian Roberts, CF (2B)

2. Kosuke Fukudome, RF (CF)

3. Derrek Lee, 1B

4. Aramis Ramirez, 3B

5. Alfonso Soriano, LF

6. Mark DeRosa, 2B (RF)

7. Geovany Soto, C

8. Ryan Theriot, SS

 

With Pie getting time in CF against tough righties and DeRosa getting benched. If you dislike the idea of moving Roberts to CF, move Fukudome there when Pie craps out, as expected.

[ThePenguin11]

I think it could get done for marshall, murton, epatt and veal. At least that seems fair to me.

Am I thinking of a different Brian Roberts? That's awfully steep.

 

Done without a second thought.

I must be thinking of a different Brian Roberts too, because that is one lopsided trade. He's basically Matt Murton playing 2nd.

 

That is basically a ridiculous statement.

.281 .351 .409 Roberts

.296 .365 .455 Murton

 

Sorry, a tad bit worse than Murton.

 

I disagree. Those three statistics aren't the only three you can use to make blanket judgements with. Murton is also a butcher defensively in my opinion. Plus you are comparing statistics of players who play positions with drastically different offensive positions. I don't see Murton as ever being an above average everyday outfielder. He's a nice 4th outfielder type. He doesn't project for power and I don't think he's got enough speed in the field or on the paths to make up for his warning track power.

 

Don't forget that most of Murton's stats are against lefties and weak righties since he mostly platooned last year. Roberts' stats are against all pitchers.

 

An excellent point.

[Outshined_One]

strange. Levine said expect it tonight or early tomorrow. Surely one of these men wouldn't be incorrect?!?! :D

 

Cripes, not another painfully long and agonizing thread...

[BigbadB]

Mike Cameron isn't getting any younger, but that boy can go get the ball still.

[rchap24]

K well this is for multiple discussions.

First off: The Murton thing don't be a jerk and be a smart alec because I said lead off position. he is a lead off hitter which would be nice to have. You cant factor in throwing arm to compare Brian Roberts and Matt Murton they play infield and outfield. Murton is a horrible fielder so don't try to tell me which I don't know how good he is that Roberts can be equal or worse than him.

 

secondly: Sorry for saying you guys just know that a few of you use that with Murton every time there is a post about him

 

thirdly: Pie he might be great in the minors, but you are making an assumption that he is better than 31 other CF's in baseball outside of Taveras that can not possibly be made right now in his career.

Actually, Ping said that he'd be the second best CF in the NL. So after Pie & Taveras, there's only 14 others he'd have to be better than. With Edmonds and Jones losing several steps each, I can't really think of too many outstanding defensive CF's in the NL - can you?

 

My bad Tim sorry miss read that, sorry about the You guys thing wasnt even trying to offend anyone by saying that, but what is up with Ussoccer giving me so much trouble for saying lead off position?

[Abe Frohman]

On a blank sheet of paper they are pretty similar as far as offensive production.

 

For the Cubs, Roberts has more value. He would be the leadoff hitter putting a higher OBP at the top and pushing Soriano into a run producing role. Murton will play the role of a 4th OF'er on this team unless Pie is traded or they don't add another OF'er (unlikely).

 

You are absolutely correct.

[Electron Blue]

K well this is for multiple discussions.

First off: The Murton thing don't be a jerk and be a smart alec because I said lead off position. he is a lead off hitter which would be nice to have. You cant factor in throwing arm to compare Brian Roberts and Matt Murton they play infield and outfield. Murton is a horrible fielder so don't try to tell me which I don't know how good he is that Roberts can be equal or worse than him.

 

secondly: Sorry for saying you guys just know that a few of you use that with Murton every time there is a post about him

 

thirdly: Pie he might be great in the minors, but you are making an assumption that he is better than 31 other CF's in baseball outside of Taveras that can not possibly be made right now in his career.

 

Leadoff hitter is not a position in the game of baseball.

what is your problem, I made a mistake on saying that if thats your best comeback on trying to make me look bad then u obviously have no case in that argument

 

I think you're still misunderstanding peoples' answers to your post. Being a "leadoff hitter" is not a meaningful role that a player fills. Jose Reyes isn't a good leadoff hitter -- he's a good hitter who bats first in the order. Obviously, he's the "leadoff hitter," but to believe this is a position/role that must be filled is illogical.

 

And I don't mean to sound rude, but without periods and commas, some of your posts are a bit tough to read.

[Guest]

thirdly: Pie he might be great in the minors, but you are making an assumption that he is better than 31 other CF's in baseball outside of Taveras that can not possibly be made right now in his career.

 

I put 2nd best in the NL.

 

I'd put Granderson, Crisp, Hunter, and Ichiro ahead of Pie as well from the AL. Matthews Jr. has a very good case as well.

Beat ya. :D

[rchap24]

thirdly: Pie he might be great in the minors, but you are making an assumption that he is better than 31 other CF's in baseball outside of Taveras that can not possibly be made right now in his career.

 

I put 2nd best in the NL.

 

I'd put Granderson, Crisp, Hunter, and Ichiro ahead of Pie as well from the AL. Matthews Jr. has a very good case as well.

Yeah my bad Ping, misread that still dont know if I completely agree, but that sounds more legit

[UK1679666180]

Mike Cameron isn't getting any younger, but that boy can go get the ball still.

 

He's def. still worthwhile espec. in a park like Petco. That's part of the reason why I love Taveras so much in Coors, his range is the best in the game.

[Outshined_One]

Mike Cameron isn't getting any younger, but that boy can go get the ball still.

 

He's def. still worthwhile espec. in a park like Petco. That's part of the reason why I love Taveras so much in Coors, his range is the best in the game.

 

And yet, at the plate...that's another story altogether.

[CubinNY]

strange. Levine said expect it tonight or early tomorrow. Surely one of these men wouldn't be incorrect?!?! :D

 

Cripes, not another painfully long and agonizing thread...

What would you do as a moderator to shorten them?