MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[mdwilla]

marshall and murton would be nice but i'll do a gallegher swap also.

[BigbadB]

Getting things back on track...

 

Gallagher and Murton is too expensive for Roberts alone. I'd rather do the Murton for Teahen deal if that's the case.

 

I was kind of hoping Gallagher was going to be in the rotation next year, so I'm not all that thrilled to see him go. But, I do like Roberts.

 

But would you do Murton and Gallagher straight up? Especially when we could get more for those two. We could get Teahen for Murton, and Gallagher could be used as an add-on to a major trade.

 

Now if you have either Tejada or Bedard coming back over, then definately send them Gallagher, but not just for Roberts alone.

 

The Cubs have done everything humanly possible to spoil any sort of trade value for Matt Murton. I doubt if we could get anything more than what we got for Craig Monroe. All any other team in the league sees of Matt Murton is part time player with little power and no real speed, oh and he's right handed just like a million other outfielders currently looking for work. I love Murt. But, he has no trade value.

 

Gallagher on the other hand, is someone I wouldn't trade unless it was for a good player. Brian Roberts is a good player. Only Goony (JerseyCubFan) screams louder than I do that this club needs more players that can get on base. Roberts does that. For Roberts, I would deal Gallagher and Murton, but I would hope Hendry tried to sell him on Marshall and Murton first.

 

So no, I don't think the Cubs could get a better package dealing Murton and Gallagher separately.

[Clem Fandango]

Considering Murton isn't left handed (Sorry, Jim!) he obviously has no place in Chicago's future in Hendry's eyes (which sucks), so if he's gonna trade him, he might as well trade him in a deal that will net us at least a solid player. And Gallagher... as much as I like him, I'm not gonna miss him if he nets a player like Roberts. Roberts' numbers last year weren't very far from his last 3 year averages, plus last year he got more patient, drew 88 walks. I like that at the top of the lineup. Hopefully we get Fukudome, I think a 1-2 of Roberts and Fukudome would be quite nice. I have no problem giving up Murton, who Hendry obviously doesn't want on the team, and Gallagher, who I personally never fully expect him to be a full time starter until 2009 (because of Cubs management, not his skill set).

 

I think that should be enough to get him, and if not, a mid level prospect thrown in SHOULD be enough, but I'm sure Baltimore will ask for way more.

 

Although I agree a Murton for Teahen straight up trade would be nice, but that doesn't look like it's happening. I wouldn't be surprised if Hendry lost out on Roberts and offered Murton and Gallagher for Teahen instead. That'd be classic Hendry

[Guest]

Roberts has been an above average offensive player for two of his years in the majors. Now, that's two of the last three years, too. I'm struggling with whether the upgrade from DeRosa to Roberts is worth what I perceive to be the downgrade from Cedeno to Theriot. Let alone adding additional players into the deal.

 

Assuming we get Fukudome, I'd be perfectly content with a lineup that had he and DeRosa at the top to push Soriano down. But I don't place the same emphasis on traditional leadoff roles and inserting lefties between the righties in the middle of the order.

[erik316wttn]

Considering Murton isn't left handed (Sorry, Jim!) he obviously has no place in Chicago's future in Hendry's eyes (which sucks), so if he's gonna trade him, he might as well trade him in a deal that will net us at least a solid player. And Gallagher... as much as I like him, I'm not gonna miss him if he nets a player like Roberts. Roberts' numbers last year weren't very far from his last 3 year averages, plus last year he got more patient, drew 88 walks. I like that at the top of the lineup. Hopefully we get Fukudome, I think a 1-2 of Roberts and Fukudome would be quite nice. I have no problem giving up Murton, who Hendry obviously doesn't want on the team, and Gallagher, who I personally never fully expect him to be a full time starter until 2009 (because of Cubs management, not his skill set).

 

I think that should be enough to get him, and if not, a mid level prospect thrown in SHOULD be enough, but I'm sure Baltimore will ask for way more.

 

Although I agree a Murton for Teahen straight up trade would be nice, but that doesn't look like it's happening. I wouldn't be surprised if Hendry lost out on Roberts and offered Murton and Gallagher for Teahen instead. That'd be classic Hendry

 

You do have a good point, and I understand that Murt's trade value is very low. I really think it stinks, as I've always thought he could have been a Mark Grace type hitter. This is probably just another case of fans overvaluing their team's prospects, but I think we could regret it down the line if we trade Murton.

 

However, if he isn't going to play, I agree. Trade him for something of value.

 

Not that I wouldn't like to see Brian Roberts here, though.

[BigbadB]

Someone lock this thread, it's gone so far above and beyond its original point.

 

More walruses please.

 

post padder.

 

:-k

 

It was a joke made by O_O in this thread. You'd had to rifle through about 10 pages of crap to find it.

 

Oh, I know. I was just padding my post count some more. :D

 

Well you need to stop already because I'm trying to catch up to your post count. :P

 

Whoa. You are closing in. Or did I pass you today? I think I might have set a record for posts in one day today sitting here waiting for nothing to happen.

 

Anyway, post count padded again. Raisin better look out.

[CUBZ99]

Roberts has been an above average offensive player for two of his years in the majors. Now, that's two of the last three years, too. I'm struggling with whether the upgrade from DeRosa to Roberts is worth what I perceive to be the downgrade from Cedeno to Theriot. Let alone adding additional players into the deal.

 

Assuming we get Fukudome, I'd be perfectly content with a lineup that had he and DeRosa at the top to push Soriano down. But I don't place the same emphasis on traditional leadoff roles and inserting lefties between the righties in the middle of the order.

 

Tim, I don't know if you've seen the latest Sullivan article but there is absolutely zero chance that Cedeno starts at SS next year according to Lou. Lou made a statement to the effect that Theriot is "his guy" and that when opening day comes around Theriot will be playing SS. I think Cedeno is as good as gone or will be viewed as a back up next year.

[BigbadB]

This is probably just another case of fans overvaluing their team's prospects

 

Not really. It's more like Cubs management ignoring the value of one of their own prospects simply because he doesn't fit the type of player they are looking for.

[erik316wttn]

Roberts has been an above average offensive player for two of his years in the majors. Now, that's two of the last three years, too. I'm struggling with whether the upgrade from DeRosa to Roberts is worth what I perceive to be the downgrade from Cedeno to Theriot. Let alone adding additional players into the deal.

 

Assuming we get Fukudome, I'd be perfectly content with a lineup that had he and DeRosa at the top to push Soriano down. But I don't place the same emphasis on traditional leadoff roles and inserting lefties between the righties in the middle of the order.

 

Tim, I don't know if you've seen the latest Sullivan article but there is absolutely zero chance that Cedeno starts at SS next year according to Lou. Lou made a statement to the effect that Theriot is "his guy" and that when opening day comes around Theriot will be playing SS. I think Cedeno is as good as gone or will be viewed as a back up next year.

 

Lou is leaps and bounds better than Dusty, but I still find it frustrating that he, much like Dusty, will develop an irrational attachment to a certain player and then never waiver come hell or high water.

[Guest]

Roberts has been an above average offensive player for two of his years in the majors. Now, that's two of the last three years, too. I'm struggling with whether the upgrade from DeRosa to Roberts is worth what I perceive to be the downgrade from Cedeno to Theriot. Let alone adding additional players into the deal.

 

Assuming we get Fukudome, I'd be perfectly content with a lineup that had he and DeRosa at the top to push Soriano down. But I don't place the same emphasis on traditional leadoff roles and inserting lefties between the righties in the middle of the order.

 

Tim, I don't know if you've seen the latest Sullivan article but there is absolutely zero chance that Cedeno starts at SS next year according to Lou. Lou made a statement to the effect that Theriot is "his guy" and that when opening day comes around Theriot will be playing SS. I think Cedeno is as good as gone or will be viewed as a back up next year.

I try to avoid Sully as he tends to warp even direct quotes.

 

One thing I saw from Lou was a willingness to play a better performing player. He says that now, but if Cedeno outplays Theriot in the spring I think he'd get a chance.

[Clem Fandango]

Roberts has been an above average offensive player for two of his years in the majors. Now, that's two of the last three years, too. I'm struggling with whether the upgrade from DeRosa to Roberts is worth what I perceive to be the downgrade from Cedeno to Theriot. Let alone adding additional players into the deal.

 

Assuming we get Fukudome, I'd be perfectly content with a lineup that had he and DeRosa at the top to push Soriano down. But I don't place the same emphasis on traditional leadoff roles and inserting lefties between the righties in the middle of the order.

 

Say we land Roberts and Fukudome, that would mean DeRosa goes to a super bench player, which would be a nice person to have on the bench even though I'd prefer him on the field most every day. But say that happens, what is DeRosa's trade value you think? Murton, Gallagher, and DeRosa for Roberts? I mean if we trade away Murton it opens up the spot for DeRosa to get playing time in the OF. If we trade him for Brian Roberts, it takes away time for DeRosa at 2B and makes him primarily an OF'er. If we sign Fukudome it will essentially make DeRosa a super sub. But Baltimore will be out of a 2B, maybe throw DeRosa into the mix to replace Roberts?

 

Thats way too much in my eyes, since I like DeRosa, but this would be another case of just getting rid of a player that Hendry has rendered them meaningless. If DeRosa is going to be nothing more than a sub/bench option, I'd rather have his contract off the payroll, personally.

[E.J.]

Someone lock this thread, it's gone so far above and beyond its original point.

 

More walruses please.

 

post padder.

 

:-k

 

It was a joke made by O_O in this thread. You'd had to rifle through about 10 pages of crap to find it.

 

Oh, I know. I was just padding my post count some more. :D

 

Well you need to stop already because I'm trying to catch up to your post count. :P

 

Whoa. You are closing in. Or did I pass you today? I think I might have set a record for posts in one day today sitting here waiting for nothing to happen.

 

Anyway, post count padded again. Raisin better look out.

 

I'm guessing you passed me recently. I was on the first page last time I looked, but now I'm stuck on the 2nd.

[Guest]

Roberts has been an above average offensive player for two of his years in the majors. Now, that's two of the last three years, too. I'm struggling with whether the upgrade from DeRosa to Roberts is worth what I perceive to be the downgrade from Cedeno to Theriot. Let alone adding additional players into the deal.

 

Assuming we get Fukudome, I'd be perfectly content with a lineup that had he and DeRosa at the top to push Soriano down. But I don't place the same emphasis on traditional leadoff roles and inserting lefties between the righties in the middle of the order.

 

Say we land Roberts and Fukudome, that would mean DeRosa goes to a super bench player, which would be a nice person to have on the bench even though I'd prefer him on the field most every day. But say that happens, what is DeRosa's trade value you think? Murton, Gallagher, and DeRosa for Roberts? I mean if we trade away Murton it opens up the spot for DeRosa to get playing time in the OF. If we trade him for Brian Roberts, it takes away time for DeRosa at 2B and makes him primarily an OF'er. If we sign Fukudome it will essentially make DeRosa a super sub. But Baltimore will be out of a 2B, maybe throw DeRosa into the mix to replace Roberts?

 

Thats way too much in my eyes, since I like DeRosa, but this would be another case of just getting rid of a player that Hendry has rendered them meaningless. If DeRosa is going to be nothing more than a sub/bench option, I'd rather have his contract off the payroll, personally.

The Cubs apparently feel he has tremendous value in that role. I'm not sure Roberts / Kosuke is much better at the top than Kosuke / DeRosa.

[Clem Fandango]

Roberts has been an above average offensive player for two of his years in the majors. Now, that's two of the last three years, too. I'm struggling with whether the upgrade from DeRosa to Roberts is worth what I perceive to be the downgrade from Cedeno to Theriot. Let alone adding additional players into the deal.

 

Assuming we get Fukudome, I'd be perfectly content with a lineup that had he and DeRosa at the top to push Soriano down. But I don't place the same emphasis on traditional leadoff roles and inserting lefties between the righties in the middle of the order.

 

Say we land Roberts and Fukudome, that would mean DeRosa goes to a super bench player, which would be a nice person to have on the bench even though I'd prefer him on the field most every day. But say that happens, what is DeRosa's trade value you think? Murton, Gallagher, and DeRosa for Roberts? I mean if we trade away Murton it opens up the spot for DeRosa to get playing time in the OF. If we trade him for Brian Roberts, it takes away time for DeRosa at 2B and makes him primarily an OF'er. If we sign Fukudome it will essentially make DeRosa a super sub. But Baltimore will be out of a 2B, maybe throw DeRosa into the mix to replace Roberts?

 

Thats way too much in my eyes, since I like DeRosa, but this would be another case of just getting rid of a player that Hendry has rendered them meaningless. If DeRosa is going to be nothing more than a sub/bench option, I'd rather have his contract off the payroll, personally.

The Cubs apparently feel he has tremendous value in that role. I'm not sure Roberts / Kosuke is much better at the top than Kosuke / DeRosa.

 

But Roberts can steal bases! j/k

 

I agree, but apparently the one man who has the ability to do something about it doesn't. I'd hate to see DeRosa be a super sub who gets minimal starts and ends up being a crappy player because of lack of playing time and getting out of a rhythm and then Hendry trying to dump him at the deadline for his lowest possible value.

 

Wait, this is Jim Hendry we're talking about. I'd go to Vegas and bet on that happening.

[CubbieSouthpaw II]

marshall and murton would be nice but i'll do a gallegher swap also.

 

Agreed, but I'd like to hang onto Gallegher if possible.

[brinoch]

Roberts has been an above average offensive player for two of his years in the majors. Now, that's two of the last three years, too. I'm struggling with whether the upgrade from DeRosa to Roberts is worth what I perceive to be the downgrade from Cedeno to Theriot. Let alone adding additional players into the deal.

 

Assuming we get Fukudome, I'd be perfectly content with a lineup that had he and DeRosa at the top to push Soriano down. But I don't place the same emphasis on traditional leadoff roles and inserting lefties between the righties in the middle of the order.

 

Tim, I don't know if you've seen the latest Sullivan article but there is absolutely zero chance that Cedeno starts at SS next year according to Lou. Lou made a statement to the effect that Theriot is "his guy" and that when opening day comes around Theriot will be playing SS. I think Cedeno is as good as gone or will be viewed as a back up next year.

I try to avoid Sully as he tends to warp even direct quotes.

 

One thing I saw from Lou was a willingness to play a better performing player. He says that now, but if Cedeno outplays Theriot in the spring I think he'd get a chance.

 

I would agree with that. If Cedeno outplays Theriot, I think he'll get the job. Lou removed the Izturis when he wasn't getting the job done.

 

Off topic, but I keep wondering if the Cubs aren't quietly making DeRosa available.

[BigbadB]

Wait, this is Jim Hendry we're talking about. I'd go to Vegas and bet on that happening.

 

Bitter, party of 1, your table is ready. :D

 

Just kidding. Welcome to NSBB. You sound like me. But, I'm still better lookin'.

[Post Count Padder]

marshall and murton would be nice but i'll do a gallegher swap also.

 

Agreed, but I'd like to hang onto Gallegher if possible.

Welcome to the boards.

 

I'd also like to hang onto Gallagher, but if we include him, is there a possibility of netting a prospect in return along with Roberts? Probably not.

[brinoch]

marshall and murton would be nice but i'll do a gallegher swap also.

 

Agreed, but I'd like to hang onto Gallegher if possible.

 

Welcome to the forum!

[Clem Fandango]

Wait, this is Jim Hendry we're talking about. I'd go to Vegas and bet on that happening.

 

Bitter, party of 1, your table is ready. :D

 

Just kidding. Welcome to NSBB. You sound like me. But, I'm still better lookin'.

 

Thanks, but I am but a shell of my former self. New account. Old one banned. Not getting into details, don't want to get banned again , just wanna talk Cubbies. And stuff. :D

 

(I was tkenm356, had like 950 posts or something like that)

[Guest]

Time for bed. If anything substantial happens, someone wake me up.

[Guancous]

Roberts has been an above average offensive player for two of his years in the majors. Now, that's two of the last three years, too. I'm struggling with whether the upgrade from DeRosa to Roberts is worth what I perceive to be the downgrade from Cedeno to Theriot. Let alone adding additional players into the deal.

 

Assuming we get Fukudome, I'd be perfectly content with a lineup that had he and DeRosa at the top to push Soriano down. But I don't place the same emphasis on traditional leadoff roles and inserting lefties between the righties in the middle of the order.

 

Tim, I don't know if you've seen the latest Sullivan article but there is absolutely zero chance that Cedeno starts at SS next year according to Lou. Lou made a statement to the effect that Theriot is "his guy" and that when opening day comes around Theriot will be playing SS. I think Cedeno is as good as gone or will be viewed as a back up next year.

 

Lou is leaps and bounds better than Dusty, but I still find it frustrating that he, much like Dusty, will develop an irrational attachment to a certain player and then never waiver come hell or high water.

 

I was going to comment that you spelled waver wrong but your way makes more baseball sense.

[Butterscup1679666578]

Time for bed. If anything substantial happens, someone wake me up.

 

I'll give you a call.

[cbbryan]

Is Roberts really the player that Hendry should be spending time pursuing right now?

 

Seriously, the Cubs don't need a 2B with DeRo already on board. I don't mind them upgrading if it were the only position that they thought then could improve on.

 

The Cubs should be talking to the O's about Bedard and Tejada. I realize that Bruce said the money was an issue, but I don't see how it can be IF the reports about what Matsui was offered is true. Obviously, the pot would have to be sweetened for Bedard but at least it's improving positions that need to be improved. (Most notably SS)

 

I'd certainly take an offseason of Fukudome, Bedard, and Tejada.

 

Here's what I would offer:

 

Dempster (Chris Ray's out, Demp could close or start for them and he's relatively cheap)

Eyre (Give them a "quality" ML Loogy)

Marshall (Young lefty arm that can immediately fill a rotation spot)

Gallagher (See above)

Theriot (Gives a replacement at SS. I don't really know what his value is to other teams)

Colvin (They'd probably ask for Pie, but you give up Colvin)

Fuld (He's supposedly "untouchable" which I believe is Hendry's way of trying to fluff his value. He's a quality guy, but I don't think he'll be an everyday OF.)

 

That's 7 for 2. While it doesn't have the "can't miss" prospect of Maybin/Miller in the Detroit deal, it gives immediate help to the O's rotation and bullpen. Colvin would be the toolsy prospect that projects well. (Depending on the scout) Fuld could also immediately help off the bench.

 

Am I crazy? Probably!

[cbbryan]

Note above: Gallagher (See above)

 

I know he's not left handed. I meant he could be plugged in to the rotation.