MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[Wrigley Rat]

I think it could get done for marshall, murton, epatt and veal. At least that seems fair to me.

Am I thinking of a different Brian Roberts? That's awfully steep.

 

Done without a second thought.

I must be thinking of a different Brian Roberts too, because that is one lopsided trade. He's basically Matt Murton playing 2nd.

 

That is basically a ridiculous statement.

.281 .351 .409 Roberts

.296 .365 .455 Murton

 

Sorry, a tad bit worse than Murton.

 

I disagree. Those three statistics aren't the only three you can use to make blanket judgements with. Murton is also a butcher defensively in my opinion. Plus you are comparing statistics of players who play positions with drastically different offensive positions. I don't see Murton as ever being an above average everyday outfielder. He's a nice 4th outfielder type. He doesn't project for power and I don't think he's got enough speed in the field or on the paths to make up for his warning track power.

 

Don't forget that most of Murton's stats are against lefties and weak righties since he mostly platooned last year. Roberts' stats are against all pitchers.

[VanceJergins]

Roberts' career OPS: .760

Murton's career OPS: .820

 

Roberts just steals more.

 

Ok is it just me or does anyone who is trying to make Murton sound good only talk about his OPS from last year and try to make other players seem like just average?

Doesn't that say "Career OPS"?

All im saying is Murton hasnt started a full year yet...yet u guys are saying Roberts isnt much better than him yet hes a multi-year all-star and probably one of the best leadoff hitters in the major leagues.

first - careful of who you group into "you guys"

second - I guess two is "multi", but calling it such is as much an effort to be misleading as comparing OPS between Murt & Roberts while ignoring defense, position & baserunning, don't ya think?

 

To be fair, I was responding to someone saying Roberts is like a 2B Murton, and I did mention the baserunning. So I just ignored defense.

[Mizzou]

All im saying is Murton hasnt started a full year yet...yet u guys are saying Roberts isnt much better than him yet hes a multi-year all-star and probably one of the best leadoff hitters in the major leagues.

 

You are making far too much sense for this discussion.

 

All Star Games=meaningless

Leadoff Hitter= not a position.

Rickey Henderson = leadoff hitter.

[UK1679666180]

 

K I agree with everything u said, but "2nd best CF'er in the NL" come on isnt that a little steep of a comment. He played like 40 games last year you cant make that statement right now. Even though I know he is a good fielder even made some very bad reads last year.

 

Not really, those tools are there. His range and arm are as good as anyone in the game. Every new player coming to Wrigley will misplay them.

 

I think right now, Taveras is the only one better.

 

Maybe...I wasn't thinking just Wrigley, if just Wrigley you could be right. I still think he needs to make better reads though he over runs balls alot!

 

If he overruns balls, that's not a bad thing. I'd rather have a CF'er that can overrun balls that most CF'ers can't get.

The only ball I saw him overrun in the OF last year was a ball hit to the gap that was skidding on the ground. He was at full speed and did great just getting to the ball to stop it. He couldn't slow down to retrieve the ball, but the RF was able to pick it and throw it back to prevent a run scoring from first.

K well than u obviously didn't see him overrun a bunch of balls this year and also get horrible reads on balls that should be routine to catch. don't get me wrong the guy is a good fielder and its his first year. Im just saying u guys are praising him a little to much for 40 games in the major leagues.

 

You do know what Ping does for a living, right?

 

I doubt being a financial analyst factors. NO I AM NOT A SCOUT!!!!

Edited December 6, 2007 by UK

[Guest]

Can we get Tyler Colvin, Jeff Samardzija, Mitch Atkins, Robert Hernandez, Josh Vitters, Josh Donaldson, Geovany Soto, and Tony Thomas involved in these trade speculations? Seriously, we're getting just about every other Cubs prospect/young player involved...

Sammy - ntc

vitters, donaldson & thomas - can't be traded yet

 

otherwise, okay!

 

Turn on your sarcasm detector. :P

 

It's basically gotten to a point where it feels like beat writers are throwing darts at names on a dartboard.

Sorry, sarcasm detector takes a beating after being sick for seven straight days.

[A New Era]

Can we get Tyler Colvin, Jeff Samardzija, Mitch Atkins, Robert Hernandez, Josh Vitters, Josh Donaldson, Geovany Soto, and Tony Thomas involved in these trade speculations? Seriously, we're getting just about every other Cubs prospect/young player involved...

Sammy - ntc

vitters, donaldson & thomas - can't be traded yet

 

otherwise, okay!

 

Turn on your sarcasm detector. :P

 

It's basically gotten to a point where it feels like beat writers are throwing darts at names on a dartboard.

 

You know Tim could just be "playing along". Then again you could also be "playing along" and then I'M the one that looks stupid. :?

[BigbadB]

Poor EPatt. If he's involved in this deal, he's following his brother all over MLB, but just can't seem to catch up with him.

[Outshined_One]

I doubt being a financial analyst factors.

 

We all know you're an actuary. ;)

[USSoccer]

 

You do know what Ping does for a living, right?

 

I doubt being a financial analyst factors.

 

Please. You know value when you see it.

[Guest]

 

K I agree with everything u said, but "2nd best CF'er in the NL" come on isnt that a little steep of a comment. He played like 40 games last year you cant make that statement right now. Even though I know he is a good fielder even made some very bad reads last year.

 

Not really, those tools are there. His range and arm are as good as anyone in the game. Every new player coming to Wrigley will misplay them.

 

I think right now, Taveras is the only one better.

 

Maybe...I wasn't thinking just Wrigley, if just Wrigley you could be right. I still think he needs to make better reads though he over runs balls alot!

 

If he overruns balls, that's not a bad thing. I'd rather have a CF'er that can overrun balls that most CF'ers can't get.

The only ball I saw him overrun in the OF last year was a ball hit to the gap that was skidding on the ground. He was at full speed and did great just getting to the ball to stop it. He couldn't slow down to retrieve the ball, but the RF was able to pick it and throw it back to prevent a run scoring from first.

K well than u obviously didn't see him overrun a bunch of balls this year and also get horrible reads on balls that should be routine to catch. don't get me wrong the guy is a good fielder and its his first year. Im just saying u guys are praising him a little to much for 40 games in the major leagues.

first - careful who you lump into "you guys"

second - I've seen Felix play in the minors more than a few times and balls fly the same way there as in the majors

[USSoccer]

All im saying is Murton hasnt started a full year yet...yet u guys are saying Roberts isnt much better than him yet hes a multi-year all-star and probably one of the best leadoff hitters in the major leagues.

 

You are making far too much sense for this discussion.

 

All Star Games=meaningless

Leadoff Hitter= not a position.

Rickey Henderson = leadoff hitter.

 

Rickey Henderson was a good OF.

[Mephistopheles]

guys the deals going to be Marmol, Gallagher and Cedeno. Just an FYI.

[Abe Frohman]

All im saying is Murton hasnt started a full year yet...yet u guys are saying Roberts isnt much better than him yet hes a multi-year all-star and probably one of the best leadoff hitters in the major leagues.

 

You are making far too much sense for this discussion.

uh huh

 

Really, Matt Murton is a better player than Brian Roberts. Because his OPS is higher.

[Deeg]

Gallagher ( or Marshall), Murt, and Cedeno. That's my bet - and it's a deal I take if it's on the table.

[YearofDaCubs]

The more I think about this, the more I'm realizing it's stupid to be trading for Roberts when a tweak in the package gets you Tejada, which upgrades an actual need.

 

You're right. Trading for Roberts doesn't make any sense. Go after Tejada or Bedard if you are going to trade with O's.

[rchap24]

K well this is for multiple discussions.

First off: The Murton thing don't be a jerk and be a smart alec because I said lead off position. he is a lead off hitter which would be nice to have. You cant factor in throwing arm to compare Brian Roberts and Matt Murton they play infield and outfield. Murton is a horrible fielder so don't try to tell me which I don't know how good he is that Roberts can be equal or worse than him.

 

secondly: Sorry for saying you guys just know that a few of you use that with Murton every time there is a post about him

 

thirdly: Pie he might be great in the minors, but you are making an assumption that he is better than 31 other CF's in baseball outside of Taveras that can not possibly be made right now in his career.

[CubinNY]

I think it could get done for marshall, murton, epatt and veal. At least that seems fair to me.

Am I thinking of a different Brian Roberts? That's awfully steep.

 

Done without a second thought.

I must be thinking of a different Brian Roberts too, because that is one lopsided trade. He's basically Matt Murton playing 2nd.

 

That is basically a ridiculous statement.

.281 .351 .409 Roberts

.296 .365 .455 Murton

 

Sorry, a tad bit worse than Murton.

 

I disagree. Those three statistics aren't the only three you can use to make blanket judgements with. Murton is also a butcher defensively in my opinion. Plus you are comparing statistics of players who play positions with drastically different offensive positions. I don't see Murton as ever being an above average everyday outfielder. He's a nice 4th outfielder type. He doesn't project for power and I don't think he's got enough speed in the field or on the paths to make up for his warning track power.

Your opinion means a lot more than the numbers.

 

Here's the deal for me, it doesn't matter where you get the offense it matters how much offense you get. I'd love to see the Cubs upgrade in RF. Hopefully they get Fukudome. However, nothing happens in a vacuum. Currently, the Cubs have a hole in RF, SS, and CF. Brian Roberts plays none of those positions and, if the rumors are true will take three tradable players to get. So, if they don't get Fukudome and Roberts moves DeRosa all over the diamond and they lose Cedeno, Murton, and another players. They've upgraded slightly at 2nd and have "shot their wad" so to speak.

[USSoccer]

K well this is for multiple discussions.

First off: The Murton thing don't be a jerk and be a smart alec because I said lead off position. he is a lead off hitter which would be nice to have. You cant factor in throwing arm to compare Brian Roberts and Matt Murton they play infield and outfield. Murton is a horrible fielder so don't try to tell me which I don't know how good he is that Roberts can be equal or worse than him.

 

secondly: Sorry for saying you guys just know that a few of you use that with Murton every time there is a post about him

 

thirdly: Pie he might be great in the minors, but you are making an assumption that he is better than 31 other CF's in baseball outside of Taveras that can not possibly be made right now in his career.

 

Leadoff hitter is not a position in the game of baseball.

[VanceJergins]

All im saying is Murton hasnt started a full year yet...yet u guys are saying Roberts isnt much better than him yet hes a multi-year all-star and probably one of the best leadoff hitters in the major leagues.

 

You are making far too much sense for this discussion.

uh huh

 

Really, Matt Murton is a better player than Brian Roberts. Because his OPS is higher.

 

I'm pretty sure the argument was that Murton is too valuable to be a throw in.

[rocket]

without wading through the thread, how close is this to getting done?

[Wrigley Rat]

Bruce -

 

If this trade goes down with speedy EPatt and either Marshall or Gallagher, here is your headline tomorrow morning:

 

"Cubs give up an arm and a leg for 2B Roberts"

 

I guess Cedeno would be considered a "glove". Sorry - it's getting late and I've been reading this board for a couple hours. :-"

[Mephistopheles]

thirdly: Pie he might be great in the minors, but you are making an assumption that he is better than 31 other CF's in baseball outside of Taveras that can not possibly be made right now in his career.

 

 

completely irrelevant.

[Derwood]

without wading through the thread, how close is this to getting done?

 

[rchap24]

really the you guys wasn't a nag on anyone in particular. again I just mentioned that I dont think u can make an assumption that he is better that he is better than 31 CF's already this early in his career.

[USSoccer]

without wading through the thread, how close is this to getting done?

 

Probably not all that close.