College Basketball 2007-2008

[Guest]

Cal beat Washington State 69-64 IN Pullman. :shock: Stanford beat Washington in Seattle and Arizona is about to beat USC in LA.

 

UCLA blew away the slumping Arizona St., 84-51. Time for my College Gameday on Saturday morning with Arizona at UCLA.

 

Heh...it starts at 8 your time on Saturday morning. Good luck :lol:

 

It was hell getting up for it, but it was worth it.

 

Can't go - only current students with active Bruin Cards or those with tickets for the game are allowed in. :(

[Flames24Rulz]

Cal beat Washington State 69-64 IN Pullman. :shock: Stanford beat Washington in Seattle and Arizona is about to beat USC in LA.

 

UCLA blew away the slumping Arizona St., 84-51. Time for my College Gameday on Saturday morning with Arizona at UCLA.

 

Heh...it starts at 8 your time on Saturday morning. Good luck :lol:

 

It was hell getting up for it, but it was worth it.

 

Can't go - only current students with active Bruin Cards or those with tickets for the game are allowed in. :(

 

That blows...they let anyone enter the Arena when they were here.

[rawaction]

Hopefully this team realizes they can't just show up and expect to win. They haven't played with any emotion in any game this year except vs. UK. They are as talented as any team in the country, but that's not nearly enough. No reason not to play the 4 guard lineup all game at this point. They are getting nothing inside opposite DJ White, offensively or defensively. Mike White used to be able to at least play D and board, he's not even doing that. Stemler used to be able to knock down a shot and play D, he's not doing that. Gordon has pretty much played like crap the last month. He's not shooting the ball well. He's forcing shots. He's making stupid turnovers. Stupid fouls. AJ Ratliff has completely ruined his senior year. Averaged 9.3 last year, and can't make the grades after 3 years in school. Then he gets on the court and looks like he's never played basketball before. Bassett, Crawford, and Ellis average about 30ppg this year, combined for 6 last night. Sampson is learning it's hard to score points against good defensive teams when you don't actually run an offense.

[fromthestretch]

Hopefully this team realizes they can't just show up and expect to win. They haven't played with any emotion in any game this year except vs. UK. They are as talented as any team in the country, but that's not nearly enough. No reason not to play the 4 guard lineup all game at this point. They are getting nothing inside opposite DJ White, offensively or defensively. Mike White used to be able to at least play D and board, he's not even doing that. Stemler used to be able to knock down a shot and play D, he's not doing that. Gordon has pretty much played like crap the last month. He's not shooting the ball well. He's forcing shots. He's making stupid turnovers. Stupid fouls. AJ Ratliff has completely ruined his senior year. Averaged 9.3 last year, and can't make the grades after 3 years in school. Then he gets on the court and looks like he's never played basketball before. Bassett, Crawford, and Ellis average about 30ppg this year, combined for 6 last night. Sampson is learning it's hard to score points against good defensive teams when you don't actually run an offense.

 

I'm just hoping IU doesn't learn how to run an offense until after they play Purdue.

[illiniguy]

Hopefully this team realizes they can't just show up and expect to win. They haven't played with any emotion in any game this year except vs. UK. They are as talented as any team in the country, but that's not nearly enough. No reason not to play the 4 guard lineup all game at this point. They are getting nothing inside opposite DJ White, offensively or defensively. Mike White used to be able to at least play D and board, he's not even doing that. Stemler used to be able to knock down a shot and play D, he's not doing that. Gordon has pretty much played like crap the last month. He's not shooting the ball well. He's forcing shots. He's making stupid turnovers. Stupid fouls. AJ Ratliff has completely ruined his senior year. Averaged 9.3 last year, and can't make the grades after 3 years in school. Then he gets on the court and looks like he's never played basketball before. Bassett, Crawford, and Ellis average about 30ppg this year, combined for 6 last night. Sampson is learning it's hard to score points against good defensive teams when you don't actually run an offense.

You are not as talented as any team in America. Kansas might be able to field two teams as talented as yours.

[apete6]

If any more evidence exists that Indiana basketball fans are arrogant & delusional, go no further than reading this thread...

 

If Sampson can't make the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 with this bunch, he'll never make it there...either because of the sanctions or if he's just fired after the season for all of the violations and whatnot.

[CubColtPacer]

If any more evidence exists that Indiana basketball fans are arrogant & delusional, go no further than reading this thread...

 

If Sampson can't make the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 with this bunch, he'll never make it there...either because of the sanctions or if he's just fired after the season for all of the violations and whatnot.

 

Uh, there's been at least 3 IU fans just in the last page say that IU is a deeply flawed team. How is that arrogant or delusional?

 

I do think IU basketball fans can be very arrogant at times, but that was the wrong time to put that comment in. Most of the posts lately about IU have been anything but arrogant.

[Keener98]

If any more evidence exists that Indiana basketball fans are arrogant & delusional, go no further than reading this thread...

 

If Sampson can't make the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 with this bunch, he'll never make it there...either because of the sanctions or if he's just fired after the season for all of the violations and whatnot.

 

Uh, there's been at least 3 IU fans just in the last page say that IU is a deeply flawed team. How is that arrogant or delusional?

 

I do think IU basketball fans can be very arrogant at times, but that was the wrong time to put that comment in. Most of the posts lately about IU have been anything but arrogant.

 

 

Yea Im with you on this CCP. Most of the IU fans here are pretty grounded, and admit the teams flaws. I do agree with Illiniguy though that Indiana is in noway shape or form as talented as any team in the nation.

[illiniguy]

If any more evidence exists that Indiana basketball fans are arrogant & delusional, go no further than reading this thread...

 

If Sampson can't make the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 with this bunch, he'll never make it there...either because of the sanctions or if he's just fired after the season for all of the violations and whatnot.

 

Uh, there's been at least 3 IU fans just in the last page say that IU is a deeply flawed team. How is that arrogant or delusional?

 

I do think IU basketball fans can be very arrogant at times, but that was the wrong time to put that comment in. Most of the posts lately about IU have been anything but arrogant.

Maybe he was making a reference to the post that claimed IU is as talented as anyone in the country, when in fact they are not. I would venture to say they are not the most talented team in the conference, a very bad one this year.

[apete6]

If any more evidence exists that Indiana basketball fans are arrogant & delusional, go no further than reading this thread...

 

If Sampson can't make the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 with this bunch, he'll never make it there...either because of the sanctions or if he's just fired after the season for all of the violations and whatnot.

 

Uh, there's been at least 3 IU fans just in the last page say that IU is a deeply flawed team. How is that arrogant or delusional?

 

I do think IU basketball fans can be very arrogant at times, but that was the wrong time to put that comment in. Most of the posts lately about IU have been anything but arrogant.

Maybe he was making a reference to the post that claimed IU is as talented as anyone in the country, when in fact they are not. I would venture to say they are not the most talented team in the conference, a very bad one this year.

 

Exactly what I was referencing. Overall, MSU probably has more talent. Outside of Gordon & White, there's nothing special there. If Gordon is actually injured, that makes them even more vulnerable. I don't like Illinois, but I can't wait to see the business EG gets in Champaign next week. That's going to be awesome.

 

FYI: I have no opinion on Indiana basketball in general. I think Bob Knight is/was a great coach and its unfortunate that he wasn't able to finish his career there and have the court/stadium named after him and all of that stuff. I guess a lot of it is his own fault though.

[illiniguy]

If any more evidence exists that Indiana basketball fans are arrogant & delusional, go no further than reading this thread...

 

If Sampson can't make the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 with this bunch, he'll never make it there...either because of the sanctions or if he's just fired after the season for all of the violations and whatnot.

 

Uh, there's been at least 3 IU fans just in the last page say that IU is a deeply flawed team. How is that arrogant or delusional?

 

I do think IU basketball fans can be very arrogant at times, but that was the wrong time to put that comment in. Most of the posts lately about IU have been anything but arrogant.

Maybe he was making a reference to the post that claimed IU is as talented as anyone in the country, when in fact they are not. I would venture to say they are not the most talented team in the conference, a very bad one this year.

 

Exactly what I was referencing. Overall, MSU probably has more talent. Outside of Gordon & White, there's nothing special there. If Gordon is actually injured, that makes them even more vulnerable. I don't like Illinois, but I can't wait to see the business EG gets in Champaign next week. That's going to be awesome.

 

FYI: I have no opinion on Indiana basketball in general. I think Bob Knight is/was a great coach and its unfortunate that he wasn't able to finish his career there and have the court/stadium named after him and all of that stuff. I guess a lot of it is his own fault though.

They are already planting the seeds of EJ being hurt. I bet he doesn't make the trip to Champaign.

[Exile on Waveland]

If any more evidence exists that Indiana basketball fans are arrogant & delusional, go no further than reading this thread...

 

If Sampson can't make the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 with this bunch, he'll never make it there...either because of the sanctions or if he's just fired after the season for all of the violations and whatnot.

 

Uh, there's been at least 3 IU fans just in the last page say that IU is a deeply flawed team. How is that arrogant or delusional?

 

I do think IU basketball fans can be very arrogant at times, but that was the wrong time to put that comment in. Most of the posts lately about IU have been anything but arrogant.

Maybe he was making a reference to the post that claimed IU is as talented as anyone in the country, when in fact they are not. I would venture to say they are not the most talented team in the conference, a very bad one this year.

 

Exactly what I was referencing. Overall, MSU probably has more talent. Outside of Gordon & White, there's nothing special there. If Gordon is actually injured, that makes them even more vulnerable. I don't like Illinois, but I can't wait to see the business EG gets in Champaign next week. That's going to be awesome.

 

FYI: I have no opinion on Indiana basketball in general. I think Bob Knight is/was a great coach and its unfortunate that he wasn't able to finish his career there and have the court/stadium named after him and all of that stuff. I guess a lot of it is his own fault though.

 

Overall, Michigan State has more talent. They have more depth of talent. But this is basketball where one or two players can make a huge difference. IU has, pretty easily, the best two players in the conference. I think that's enough to make a solid argument that IU's the most talented team in the conference. It depends if you're looking for quality or quantity. I think most coaches would take IU's roster over MSU's, OSU's or UW's. Obviously, they're nowhere near the most talented team in the country.

 

Also, you're wrong about IU not having anything besides those Gordon and White. Bassett, Ellis, Crawford and even Ratliff (4-star recruit) and Holman (4-star recruit) have plenty of talent.

[illiniguy]

If any more evidence exists that Indiana basketball fans are arrogant & delusional, go no further than reading this thread...

 

If Sampson can't make the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 with this bunch, he'll never make it there...either because of the sanctions or if he's just fired after the season for all of the violations and whatnot.

 

Uh, there's been at least 3 IU fans just in the last page say that IU is a deeply flawed team. How is that arrogant or delusional?

 

I do think IU basketball fans can be very arrogant at times, but that was the wrong time to put that comment in. Most of the posts lately about IU have been anything but arrogant.

Maybe he was making a reference to the post that claimed IU is as talented as anyone in the country, when in fact they are not. I would venture to say they are not the most talented team in the conference, a very bad one this year.

 

Exactly what I was referencing. Overall, MSU probably has more talent. Outside of Gordon & White, there's nothing special there. If Gordon is actually injured, that makes them even more vulnerable. I don't like Illinois, but I can't wait to see the business EG gets in Champaign next week. That's going to be awesome.

 

FYI: I have no opinion on Indiana basketball in general. I think Bob Knight is/was a great coach and its unfortunate that he wasn't able to finish his career there and have the court/stadium named after him and all of that stuff. I guess a lot of it is his own fault though.

 

Overall, Michigan State has more talent. They have more depth of talent. But this is basketball where one or two players can make a huge difference. IU has, pretty easily, the best two players in the conference. I think that's enough to make a solid argument that IU's the most talented team in the conference. It depends if you're looking for quality or quantity. I think most coaches would take IU's roster over MSU's, OSU's or UW's. Obviously, they're nowhere near the most talented team in the country.

 

Also, you're wrong about IU not having anything besides those Gordon and White. Bassett, Ellis, Crawford and even Ratliff (4-star recruit) and Holman (4-star recruit) have plenty of talent.

Lol, MSU's roster is stuffed with talent. I don't think any coach would take your roster over MSUs. You have too many flaws. You have all shooting guards on the perimeter and no power forward.

[Exile on Waveland]

If any more evidence exists that Indiana basketball fans are arrogant & delusional, go no further than reading this thread...

 

If Sampson can't make the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 with this bunch, he'll never make it there...either because of the sanctions or if he's just fired after the season for all of the violations and whatnot.

 

Uh, there's been at least 3 IU fans just in the last page say that IU is a deeply flawed team. How is that arrogant or delusional?

 

I do think IU basketball fans can be very arrogant at times, but that was the wrong time to put that comment in. Most of the posts lately about IU have been anything but arrogant.

Maybe he was making a reference to the post that claimed IU is as talented as anyone in the country, when in fact they are not. I would venture to say they are not the most talented team in the conference, a very bad one this year.

 

Exactly what I was referencing. Overall, MSU probably has more talent. Outside of Gordon & White, there's nothing special there. If Gordon is actually injured, that makes them even more vulnerable. I don't like Illinois, but I can't wait to see the business EG gets in Champaign next week. That's going to be awesome.

 

FYI: I have no opinion on Indiana basketball in general. I think Bob Knight is/was a great coach and its unfortunate that he wasn't able to finish his career there and have the court/stadium named after him and all of that stuff. I guess a lot of it is his own fault though.

 

Overall, Michigan State has more talent. They have more depth of talent. But this is basketball where one or two players can make a huge difference. IU has, pretty easily, the best two players in the conference. I think that's enough to make a solid argument that IU's the most talented team in the conference. It depends if you're looking for quality or quantity. I think most coaches would take IU's roster over MSU's, OSU's or UW's. Obviously, they're nowhere near the most talented team in the country.

 

Also, you're wrong about IU not having anything besides those Gordon and White. Bassett, Ellis, Crawford and even Ratliff (4-star recruit) and Holman (4-star recruit) have plenty of talent.

Lol, MSU's roster is stuffed with talent. I don't think any coach would take your roster over MSUs. You have too many flaws. You have all shooting guards on the perimeter and no power forward.

 

Yes, MSU has more talent overall than IU. No doubt. But Gordon and White are clearly better than anyone they have (I love Morgan, but he's not yet better than either Hoosier). That makes a huge difference. I think coaches would struggle with MSU or IU's roster, but having two stars goes a long way. MSU has the edge in depth and, by far, more good interior players. Two studs in a five-on-five game is often more valuable than depth.

[CubColtPacer]

If any more evidence exists that Indiana basketball fans are arrogant & delusional, go no further than reading this thread...

 

If Sampson can't make the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 with this bunch, he'll never make it there...either because of the sanctions or if he's just fired after the season for all of the violations and whatnot.

 

Uh, there's been at least 3 IU fans just in the last page say that IU is a deeply flawed team. How is that arrogant or delusional?

 

I do think IU basketball fans can be very arrogant at times, but that was the wrong time to put that comment in. Most of the posts lately about IU have been anything but arrogant.

Maybe he was making a reference to the post that claimed IU is as talented as anyone in the country, when in fact they are not. I would venture to say they are not the most talented team in the conference, a very bad one this year.

 

Exactly what I was referencing. Overall, MSU probably has more talent. Outside of Gordon & White, there's nothing special there. If Gordon is actually injured, that makes them even more vulnerable. I don't like Illinois, but I can't wait to see the business EG gets in Champaign next week. That's going to be awesome.

 

FYI: I have no opinion on Indiana basketball in general. I think Bob Knight is/was a great coach and its unfortunate that he wasn't able to finish his career there and have the court/stadium named after him and all of that stuff. I guess a lot of it is his own fault though.

 

Overall, Michigan State has more talent. They have more depth of talent. But this is basketball where one or two players can make a huge difference. IU has, pretty easily, the best two players in the conference. I think that's enough to make a solid argument that IU's the most talented team in the conference. It depends if you're looking for quality or quantity. I think most coaches would take IU's roster over MSU's, OSU's or UW's. Obviously, they're nowhere near the most talented team in the country.

 

Also, you're wrong about IU not having anything besides those Gordon and White. Bassett, Ellis, Crawford and even Ratliff (4-star recruit) and Holman (4-star recruit) have plenty of talent.

Lol, MSU's roster is stuffed with talent. I don't think any coach would take your roster over MSUs. You have too many flaws. You have all shooting guards on the perimeter and no power forward.

 

That's IU's flaw. Plenty of talent, but way too much redundancy. The team had 5 good shooting guard/small forward options, but no point guard or power forward. I would agree that IU has more talent, but MSU's talent is in more well rounded places, and that quite possibly makes them the better team.

[Exile on Waveland]

If any more evidence exists that Indiana basketball fans are arrogant & delusional, go no further than reading this thread...

 

If Sampson can't make the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 with this bunch, he'll never make it there...either because of the sanctions or if he's just fired after the season for all of the violations and whatnot.

 

Uh, there's been at least 3 IU fans just in the last page say that IU is a deeply flawed team. How is that arrogant or delusional?

 

I do think IU basketball fans can be very arrogant at times, but that was the wrong time to put that comment in. Most of the posts lately about IU have been anything but arrogant.

Maybe he was making a reference to the post that claimed IU is as talented as anyone in the country, when in fact they are not. I would venture to say they are not the most talented team in the conference, a very bad one this year.

 

Exactly what I was referencing. Overall, MSU probably has more talent. Outside of Gordon & White, there's nothing special there. If Gordon is actually injured, that makes them even more vulnerable. I don't like Illinois, but I can't wait to see the business EG gets in Champaign next week. That's going to be awesome.

 

FYI: I have no opinion on Indiana basketball in general. I think Bob Knight is/was a great coach and its unfortunate that he wasn't able to finish his career there and have the court/stadium named after him and all of that stuff. I guess a lot of it is his own fault though.

 

Overall, Michigan State has more talent. They have more depth of talent. But this is basketball where one or two players can make a huge difference. IU has, pretty easily, the best two players in the conference. I think that's enough to make a solid argument that IU's the most talented team in the conference. It depends if you're looking for quality or quantity. I think most coaches would take IU's roster over MSU's, OSU's or UW's. Obviously, they're nowhere near the most talented team in the country.

 

Also, you're wrong about IU not having anything besides those Gordon and White. Bassett, Ellis, Crawford and even Ratliff (4-star recruit) and Holman (4-star recruit) have plenty of talent.

Lol, MSU's roster is stuffed with talent. I don't think any coach would take your roster over MSUs. You have too many flaws. You have all shooting guards on the perimeter and no power forward.

 

That's IU's flaw. Plenty of talent, but way too much redundancy. The team had 5 good shooting guard/small forward options, but no point guard or power forward. I would agree that IU has more talent, but MSU's talent is in more well rounded places, and that quite possibly makes them the better team.

 

There's no doubt MSU's talent is more well-dispersed and IU lacks a power forward (I don't believe PG has been much of an issue, however). If MSU's roster is better it's because of depth and equal dispersement.

 

I'll use rivals, for what it's worth, because it's easy. IU has two five-star players, two four-star players and five three-star players. MSU has one five-star (Marquise Gray), seven four-star players and three three-star players. Again, clearly, MSU has more talent depth. But IU is very top-heavy, especially considering who MSU's lone five-star player is.

[illiniguy]

If any more evidence exists that Indiana basketball fans are arrogant & delusional, go no further than reading this thread...

 

If Sampson can't make the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 with this bunch, he'll never make it there...either because of the sanctions or if he's just fired after the season for all of the violations and whatnot.

 

Uh, there's been at least 3 IU fans just in the last page say that IU is a deeply flawed team. How is that arrogant or delusional?

 

I do think IU basketball fans can be very arrogant at times, but that was the wrong time to put that comment in. Most of the posts lately about IU have been anything but arrogant.

Maybe he was making a reference to the post that claimed IU is as talented as anyone in the country, when in fact they are not. I would venture to say they are not the most talented team in the conference, a very bad one this year.

 

Exactly what I was referencing. Overall, MSU probably has more talent. Outside of Gordon & White, there's nothing special there. If Gordon is actually injured, that makes them even more vulnerable. I don't like Illinois, but I can't wait to see the business EG gets in Champaign next week. That's going to be awesome.

 

FYI: I have no opinion on Indiana basketball in general. I think Bob Knight is/was a great coach and its unfortunate that he wasn't able to finish his career there and have the court/stadium named after him and all of that stuff. I guess a lot of it is his own fault though.

 

Overall, Michigan State has more talent. They have more depth of talent. But this is basketball where one or two players can make a huge difference. IU has, pretty easily, the best two players in the conference. I think that's enough to make a solid argument that IU's the most talented team in the conference. It depends if you're looking for quality or quantity. I think most coaches would take IU's roster over MSU's, OSU's or UW's. Obviously, they're nowhere near the most talented team in the country.

 

Also, you're wrong about IU not having anything besides those Gordon and White. Bassett, Ellis, Crawford and even Ratliff (4-star recruit) and Holman (4-star recruit) have plenty of talent.

Lol, MSU's roster is stuffed with talent. I don't think any coach would take your roster over MSUs. You have too many flaws. You have all shooting guards on the perimeter and no power forward.

 

That's IU's flaw. Plenty of talent, but way too much redundancy. The team had 5 good shooting guard/small forward options, but no point guard or power forward. I would agree that IU has more talent, but MSU's talent is in more well rounded places, and that quite possibly makes them the better team.

 

There's no doubt MSU's talent is more well-dispersed and IU lacks a power forward (I don't believe PG has been much of an issue, however). If MSU's roster is better it's because of depth and equal dispersement.

 

I'll use rivals, for what it's worth, because it's easy. IU has two five-star players, two four-star players and five three-star players. MSU has one five-star (Marquise Gray), seven four-star players and three three-star players. Again, clearly, MSU has more talent depth. But IU is very top-heavy, especially considering who MSU's lone five-star player is.

I would rather look at it from a matchup standpoint.

 

Neitzel>Your point guard of the week

Walton

Morgan>Ellis

Gray>Mike White

Suton

 

From that Neitzel is much better than your points, EJ is much better than their shooting guards, Morgan is a lot better than Ellis, Gray is a lot better than Mike White, and D.J. White is better than Goran Suton. Although I think Suton is closer to D.J. White than many think.

[Exile on Waveland]

If any more evidence exists that Indiana basketball fans are arrogant & delusional, go no further than reading this thread...

 

If Sampson can't make the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 with this bunch, he'll never make it there...either because of the sanctions or if he's just fired after the season for all of the violations and whatnot.[/quote

Uh, there's been at least 3 IU fans just in the last page say that IU is a deeply flawed team. How is that arrogant or delusional?

 

I do think IU basketball fans can be very arrogant at times, but that was the wrong time to put that comment in. Most of the posts lately about IU have been anything but arrogant.

Maybe he was making a reference to the post that claimed IU is as talented as anyone in the country, when in fact they are not. I would venture to say they are not the most talented team in the conference, a very bad one this year.

 

Exactly what I was referencing. Overall, MSU probably has more talent. Outside of Gordon & White, there's nothing special there. If Gordon is actually injured, that makes them even more vulnerable. I don't like Illinois, but I can't wait to see the business EG gets in Champaign next week. That's going to be awesome.

 

FYI: I have no opinion on Indiana basketball in general. I think Bob Knight is/was a great coach and its unfortunate that he wasn't able to finish his career there and have the court/stadium named after him and all of that stuff. I guess a lot of it is his own fault though.

 

Overall, Michigan State has more talent. They have more depth of talent. But this is basketball where one or two players can make a huge difference. IU has, pretty easily, the best two players in the conference. I think that's enough to make a solid argument that IU's the most talented team in the conference. It depends if you're looking for quality or quantity. I think most coaches would take IU's roster over MSU's, OSU's or UW's. Obviously, they're nowhere near the most talented team in the country.

 

Also, you're wrong about IU not having anything besides those Gordon and White. Bassett, Ellis, Crawford and even Ratliff (4-star recruit) and Holman (4-star recruit) have plenty of talent.

Lol, MSU's roster is stuffed with talent. I don't think any coach would take your roster over MSUs. You have too many flaws. You have all shooting guards on the perimeter and no power forward.

 

That's IU's flaw. Plenty of talent, but way too much redundancy. The team had 5 good shooting guard/small forward options, but no point guard or power forward. I would agree that IU has more talent, but MSU's talent is in more well rounded places, and that quite possibly makes them the better team.

 

There's no doubt MSU's talent is more well-dispersed and IU lacks a power forward (I don't believe PG has been much of an issue, however). If MSU's roster is better it's because of depth and equal dispersement.

 

I'll use rivals, for what it's worth, because it's easy. IU has two five-star players, two four-star players and five three-star players. MSU has one five-star (Marquise Gray), seven four-star players and three three-star players. Again, clearly, MSU has more talent depth. But IU is very top-heavy, especially considering who MSU's lone five-star player is.

I would rather look at it from a matchup standpoint.

 

Neitzel>Your point guard of the week

Walton

Morgan>Ellis

Gray>Mike White

Suton

 

From that Neitzel is much better than your points, EJ is much better than their shooting guards, Morgan is a lot better than Ellis, Gray is a lot better than Mike White, and D.J. White is better than Goran Suton. Although I think Suton is closer to D.J. White than many think.

 

I don't think anyone can argue on your arrows. They have the advantage at three spots, but, again, the two IU possesses are pretty substantial. A couple things I'd argue with:

 

First, is Neitzel really their point guard anymore? I think he plays more SG for Walton/Lucas. That duo is likely still better than Bassett/Crawford though you're underrating that pair in my estimation -- both are averaging double figures.

 

Suton, who averages 8.8 points, 8.5 rebounds, 1.1 blocks and is at 1.25 points per shot is close to White, who averages 17.1, 10.6, 1.8 and 1.64? Suton might be "closer than many think" because that's completely nebulous, but he's certainly not very close at this point.

[illiniguy]

If any more evidence exists that Indiana basketball fans are arrogant & delusional, go no further than reading this thread...

 

If Sampson can't make the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 with this bunch, he'll never make it there...either because of the sanctions or if he's just fired after the season for all of the violations and whatnot.[/quote

Uh, there's been at least 3 IU fans just in the last page say that IU is a deeply flawed team. How is that arrogant or delusional?

 

I do think IU basketball fans can be very arrogant at times, but that was the wrong time to put that comment in. Most of the posts lately about IU have been anything but arrogant.

Maybe he was making a reference to the post that claimed IU is as talented as anyone in the country, when in fact they are not. I would venture to say they are not the most talented team in the conference, a very bad one this year.

 

Exactly what I was referencing. Overall, MSU probably has more talent. Outside of Gordon & White, there's nothing special there. If Gordon is actually injured, that makes them even more vulnerable. I don't like Illinois, but I can't wait to see the business EG gets in Champaign next week. That's going to be awesome.

 

FYI: I have no opinion on Indiana basketball in general. I think Bob Knight is/was a great coach and its unfortunate that he wasn't able to finish his career there and have the court/stadium named after him and all of that stuff. I guess a lot of it is his own fault though.

 

Overall, Michigan State has more talent. They have more depth of talent. But this is basketball where one or two players can make a huge difference. IU has, pretty easily, the best two players in the conference. I think that's enough to make a solid argument that IU's the most talented team in the conference. It depends if you're looking for quality or quantity. I think most coaches would take IU's roster over MSU's, OSU's or UW's. Obviously, they're nowhere near the most talented team in the country.

 

Also, you're wrong about IU not having anything besides those Gordon and White. Bassett, Ellis, Crawford and even Ratliff (4-star recruit) and Holman (4-star recruit) have plenty of talent.

Lol, MSU's roster is stuffed with talent. I don't think any coach would take your roster over MSUs. You have too many flaws. You have all shooting guards on the perimeter and no power forward.

 

That's IU's flaw. Plenty of talent, but way too much redundancy. The team had 5 good shooting guard/small forward options, but no point guard or power forward. I would agree that IU has more talent, but MSU's talent is in more well rounded places, and that quite possibly makes them the better team.

 

There's no doubt MSU's talent is more well-dispersed and IU lacks a power forward (I don't believe PG has been much of an issue, however). If MSU's roster is better it's because of depth and equal dispersement.

 

I'll use rivals, for what it's worth, because it's easy. IU has two five-star players, two four-star players and five three-star players. MSU has one five-star (Marquise Gray), seven four-star players and three three-star players. Again, clearly, MSU has more talent depth. But IU is very top-heavy, especially considering who MSU's lone five-star player is.

I would rather look at it from a matchup standpoint.

 

Neitzel>Your point guard of the week

Walton

Morgan>Ellis

Gray>Mike White

Suton

 

From that Neitzel is much better than your points, EJ is much better than their shooting guards, Morgan is a lot better than Ellis, Gray is a lot better than Mike White, and D.J. White is better than Goran Suton. Although I think Suton is closer to D.J. White than many think.

 

I don't think anyone can argue on your arrows. They have the advantage at three spots, but, again, the two IU possesses are pretty substantial. A couple things I'd argue with:

 

First, is Neitzel really their point guard anymore? I think he plays more SG for Walton/Lucas. That duo is likely still better than Bassett/Crawford though you're underrating that pair in my estimation -- both are averaging double figures.

 

Suton, who averages 8.8 points, 8.5 rebounds, 1.1 blocks and is at 1.25 points per shot is close to White, who averages 17.1, 10.6, 1.8 and 1.64? Suton might be "closer than many think" because that's completely nebulous, but he's certainly not very close at this point.

Can I get those stats per 40 minutes? White is your first of second option. Suton is like the 3rd or 4th for Michigan State. Suton also has to battle talented big teammates for rebounds. IU doesn't have any other big talented players.

[Derwood]

is it bad that i've lowered my expectations of DePaul so low that just "making the Big East tourney" would be tremendously satisfying?

[SouthSideRyan]

is it bad that i've lowered my expectations of DePaul so low that just "making the Big East tourney" would be tremendously satisfying?

 

Is it not until next year that everyone makes the tourney. If it starts this year, then yes, I'd say the expectations are too low. I don't know how to fix DePaul. It's sad. They may have been better off playing 2nd banana in C-USA rather than go to the Big East, though I understand their reasoning.

[Derwood]

is it bad that i've lowered my expectations of DePaul so low that just "making the Big East tourney" would be tremendously satisfying?

 

Is it not until next year that everyone makes the tourney. If it starts this year, then yes, I'd say the expectations are too low. I don't know how to fix DePaul. It's sad. They may have been better off playing 2nd banana in C-USA rather than go to the Big East, though I understand their reasoning.

 

i don't know either. jerry wainwright isn't the answer, but i don't know what is. it's simply not a job that anyone who is "up and coming" really wants, and i think the athletic department has grown a reputation of not treating their head coaches very well

[Exile on Waveland]

Can I get those stats per 40 minutes? White is your first of second option. Suton is like the 3rd or 4th for Michigan State. Suton also has to battle talented big teammates for rebounds. IU doesn't have any other big talented players.

 

Suton is averaging 26.7 minutes, White 31.5. Suton has taken 148 field goals, White 208. So, obviously, there's a discrepancy there as you predicted. But White is also shooting substantially higher from the field .611-.507 and gets to the line much better (88/123 attempts to 35/48). Yes, White plays more and shoots more, but that could be because he's a superior player or because MSU has more depth. I'm unsure how to weight and account for those variables.

 

White has also been much better in the Big Ten play. He's upped his averages to 18.9 and 12.1. He leads the league in offensive and defensive rebounds and is second to Gordon in scoring. He should be Big Ten POY.

 

And, wow, are you right that IU doesn't have any other talented big players. Hopefully, Eli Holman can get there.

Edited February 1, 2008 by Exile on Waveland

[SouthSideRyan]

Quote trim plz.

[Exile on Waveland]

Quote trim plz.

 

My bad, and fixed.