Why are people in such a hurry to get Theriot out of town?

[abuck1220]

Has anyone actually said they would prefer Theriot over a clearly better shortstop like Tejada, Rodriguez, etc? I haven't see that, only that some feel Theriot is a better option than Cedeno right now (including the Cubs organization).

 

I think the Cubs would be much better served spending whatever money they can to get better starting pitching and maybe resolve the OF issue (deal someone and have at least two everyday producers out there).

 

I would think that if $20 million was available to spend, I'd throw it at starting pitching before I would try and land a SS or OF (I used to think Murton wouldn't work in RF, but I am retracting that).

 

the cubs starting rotation had the 3rd best era in the majors this year and the offense scored the 18th most runs. why would you go after starting pitching instead of offense?

 

I'm assuming you are not serious because I am sure even you watched the NLDS. You don't think it is important to improve the starting pitching?

 

 

did you watch the nlds? the cubs scored six runs in three games.

[bukie]

I'm assuming you are not serious because I am sure even you watched the NLDS. You don't think it is important to improve the starting pitching?

 

The Cubs lost two games 3-1 and 4-2, and couldn't buy a run against a bad Doug Davis in a game where they needed runs. I think they need to improve the offense.

[Abe Frohman]

Has anyone actually said they would prefer Theriot over a clearly better shortstop like Tejada, Rodriguez, etc? I haven't see that, only that some feel Theriot is a better option than Cedeno right now (including the Cubs organization).

 

I think the Cubs would be much better served spending whatever money they can to get better starting pitching and maybe resolve the OF issue (deal someone and have at least two everyday producers out there).

 

I would think that if $20 million was available to spend, I'd throw it at starting pitching before I would try and land a SS or OF (I used to think Murton wouldn't work in RF, but I am retracting that).

 

the cubs starting rotation had the 3rd best era in the majors this year and the offense scored the 18th most runs. why would you go after starting pitching instead of offense?

 

I'm assuming you are not serious because I am sure even you watched the NLDS. You don't think it is important to improve the starting pitching?

 

 

did you watch the nlds? the cubs scored six runs in three games.

 

I also watched the last month of the season. I was mostly drunk during the NLDS.

[USSoccer]

Has anyone actually said they would prefer Theriot over a clearly better shortstop like Tejada, Rodriguez, etc? I haven't see that, only that some feel Theriot is a better option than Cedeno right now (including the Cubs organization).

 

I think the Cubs would be much better served spending whatever money they can to get better starting pitching and maybe resolve the OF issue (deal someone and have at least two everyday producers out there).

 

I would think that if $20 million was available to spend, I'd throw it at starting pitching before I would try and land a SS or OF (I used to think Murton wouldn't work in RF, but I am retracting that).

 

the cubs starting rotation had the 3rd best era in the majors this year and the offense scored the 18th most runs. why would you go after starting pitching instead of offense?

 

I'm assuming you are not serious because I am sure even you watched the NLDS. You don't think it is important to improve the starting pitching?

 

 

Look at the title of the thread.

 

OK, so?

 

#1-If you based offseason roster moves on the sample size of 3 playoffs games, you would be replacing 95% of the roster. And using 3 games as an evaluation tool for anything should get someone fired like faster than anything else should, ever. So I wouldn't use the NLDS as a measuring stick for anything, ever. It was 3 crappy, crappy games.

 

#2-The thread starter was asking why people were so eager to replace Theriot. Other people have echoed this sentiment, saying that he's the kind of player we need more of. This sentiment is stupid.

[fromthestretch]

I'm assuming you are not serious because I am sure even you watched the NLDS. You don't think it is important to improve the starting pitching?

 

Without the starting pitching they had, the Cubs never would have been to the NLDS in the first place. They were second in the NL in overall ERA and starting ERA. Offense is a much bigger problem with this team. While no one would complain if they improved upon the starting pitching, they need to make sure they still have enough money/resources to upgrade the offense. If the Cubs blow a ton of money on starting pitching this offseason, those pitchers are still going to struggle due to lack of run support.

[dbeider]

I think the team should be made up of people who will ultimately win the World Series.

 

Discuss!!

 

Seriously hasn't this thread been beaten enough? Oh, and the venom in this discussion is amazing.

[Abe Frohman]

I'm assuming you are not serious because I am sure even you watched the NLDS. You don't think it is important to improve the starting pitching?

 

The Cubs lost two games 3-1 and 4-2, and couldn't buy a run against a bad Doug Davis in a game where they needed runs. I think they need to improve the offense.

 

I agree - the Cubs do need to improve their offense. We need more situational hitters with plate discipline. More guys who can draw a walk and are a threat in late/tight games. No doubt.

 

The Cubs also need a better rotation - or they need more consistency out of their starters. Zambrano, even though he won a career high 18 games, also had too many losses and this wasn't a good year for him. Lilly was great, but can we expect the same out of him again? Marquis was too up and down, and Hill is still promising. We need at least one more SOLID starting pitcher.

[bukie]

I'm assuming you are not serious because I am sure even you watched the NLDS. You don't think it is important to improve the starting pitching?

 

The Cubs lost two games 3-1 and 4-2, and couldn't buy a run against a bad Doug Davis in a game where they needed runs. I think they need to improve the offense.

 

I agree - the Cubs do need to improve their offense. We need more situational hitters with plate discipline. More guys who can draw a walk and are a threat in late/tight games. No doubt.

 

The Cubs also need a better rotation - or they need more consistency out of their starters. Zambrano, even though he won a career high 18 games, also had too many losses and this wasn't a good year for him. Lilly was great, but can we expect the same out of him again? Marquis was too up and down, and Hill is still promising. We need at least one more SOLID starting pitcher.

 

To break it down simply, the Cubs need more hitters who will avoid swinging at pitcher's pitches and pitches out of their zone, and can make consistently good contact on pitches that are in their zone.

 

I don't care if someone swings at the first pitch if it's their pitch, but they need to be able to make good contact on a reliable basis.

 

How does this relate back to Theriot/Cedeno? Cedeno is capable of making good contact. He has decent power. He had an awful 2006, to be sure, bookended by two fantastic years in 2005 and 2007. Nobody is saying that Cedeno should be handed a job, but he should at least be in the discussion if the Cubs don't bring in someone from outside the organization.

 

If the Cubs aren't looking at bringing in someone from the outside, Cedeno is likely the best candidate to be successful in the long term. The reason for that is a combination of Cedeno's age, and the things he's shown at AAA. Sure, it may never translate to major league success, but he at least deserves a shot, since he really has nothing left to show at AAA.

[Abe Frohman]

How many shots should he get?

[Sammy Sofa]

How many shots should he get?

 

At least 2? He only really had 2006. If that's your argument, why should Theriot get another shot?

[Abe Frohman]

How many shots should he get?

 

At least 2? He only really had 2006. If that's your argument, why should Theriot get another shot?

 

Because he helped the team to the playoffs and he didn't suck.

[NewUserName]

I think the team should be made up of people who will ultimately win the World Series.

 

Discuss!!

 

Seriously hasn't this thread been beaten enough? Oh, and the venom in this discussion is amazing.

 

 

Thats what gritty players do. They bring out venom.

 

Its like the other extreme from ARam. He produces but isnt a ballplayer. Theriot is a ballplayer but doesnt produce. Its like Democrats and Republicans.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

How many shots should he get?

 

At least 2? He only really had 2006. If that's your argument, why should Theriot get another shot?

 

Because he helped the team to the playoffs and he didn't suck.

 

Status quo for getting swept out of the LDS after barely making it in an extremely weak division? And yes, he did in fact suck. Both in the regular season and in the playoffs.

[Warpticon]

How many shots should he get?

 

At least 2? He only really had 2006. If that's your argument, why should Theriot get another shot?

 

Because he helped the team to the playoffs and he didn't suck.

 

Technically, any player who was on the team "helped the team to the playoffs," but in realiity, his biggest contribution was not being Cesar Izturis.

[Rob]

Why don't we all watch what we're posting. There are a few posters who are flirting with (if not actually) violating board rules.

 

No, you shut up.

[Sammy Sofa]

How many shots should he get?

 

At least 2? He only really had 2006. If that's your argument, why should Theriot get another shot?

 

Because he helped the team to the playoffs and he didn't suck.

 

The first part has no basis in anything concrete outside of your own opinion (nevermind that anyone on the team "helped" make the playoffs...even crappy Trachsel won a game) and the second part is blatantly wrong based on nearly everything used by professionals to evaluate a player's performance.

 

Look, Cedeno could very easily never "get it." Nobody here is saying he's a sure thing. In theory, Therior could improve and again approach the brief period where we saw him really excell...but it's not very likely given his minor league career and his age. I don't think either should just be handed the job...I just find it ridiculous that people think the job should be Theriot's to lose when he was worse than Cesar Izturius. If the Cubs don't upgrade SS from the outside, Cedeno needs to be seriously considered. He's no sure thing and he should have to show that he's improved consistently like he showed at the end of 2007, but to think that Theriot is a significantly better option simply isn't realistic at all.

[abuck1220]

How many shots should he get?

 

At least 2? He only really had 2006. If that's your argument, why should Theriot get another shot?

 

Because he helped the team to the playoffs and he didn't suck.

 

how many more numbers need to be shoved down your throat before you understand that he did, in fact, suck.

[Guest]

Please, don't shovel. Politely feed the stats to the hungry.

[Guest]

btw - I think if we've learned anything about Lou, if Theriot & Cedeno are both on the team next year and Cedeno outplays Theriot he'll get the bulk of the time on the field.

[UK1679666180]

Cub, defense is important in all positions.. but it's not the number one priority at 1B, 3B, LF and RF. Offense is the number one thing scouts are looking for in the corner positions. Defense is the number one thing scouts are looking for at C, 2B, SS and CF. If you get solid defense from the corners or solid offense from the middle, you got a special player.

 

I really hope the bolded isn't true, because in no world is defense more important than offense at any position. Defense should never take priority over offense. Ever. That doesn't mean that defensive ability isn't more important at the positions you listed than at others. It is. That said, the most important thing will still be what they can produce with the bat.

 

 

It's not true, especially for 2B and CF.

[Tracer Bullet]

Has anyone actually said they would prefer Theriot over a clearly better shortstop like Tejada, Rodriguez, etc? I haven't see that, only that some feel Theriot is a better option than Cedeno right now (including the Cubs organization).

 

I think the Cubs would be much better served spending whatever money they can to get better starting pitching and maybe resolve the OF issue (deal someone and have at least two everyday producers out there).

 

I would think that if $20 million was available to spend, I'd throw it at starting pitching before I would try and land a SS or OF (I used to think Murton wouldn't work in RF, but I am retracting that).

 

the cubs starting rotation had the 3rd best era in the majors this year and the offense scored the 18th most runs. why would you go after starting pitching instead of offense?

 

I'm assuming you are not serious because I am sure even you watched the NLDS. You don't think it is important to improve the starting pitching?

 

Wait, so you think we need to improve our starting pitching because of the NLDS? Only 3 starters started games in the NLDS. Which of Z, Lilly, and Hill is it that we should rush to replace? And who, pray tell, in the world are we going to acquire that's an improvement on those 3 this season? Seriously. I thought you were arguing that we replace Marquis with someone less likely to suck. But it seems like you're arguing that Z, Lilly and/or Hill should be shown the door. In which case, I'm not sure we have the assets to even begin to fix our problems.

[Tracer Bullet]

Oh, and the venom in this discussion is amazing.

 

I think it's been pretty tame, all things considered. Other than calling abuck jealous and a moron, I don't remember any direct personal attacks.

[Abe Frohman]

 

Wait, so you think we need to improve our starting pitching because of the NLDS? Only 3 starters started games in the NLDS. Which of Z, Lilly, and Hill is it that we should rush to replace? And who, pray tell, in the world are we going to acquire that's an improvement on those 3 this season? Seriously. I thought you were arguing that we replace Marquis with someone less likely to suck. But it seems like you're arguing that Z, Lilly and/or Hill should be shown the door. In which case, I'm not sure we have the assets to even begin to fix our problems.

 

You don't think we could use another quality starter? I didn't say anything about getting rid of anyone, and I don't base that on the NLDS exclusively. We lost because we didn't hit.

[Tracer Bullet]

How does this relate back to Theriot/Cedeno? Cedeno is capable of making good contact. He has decent power. He had an awful 2006, to be sure, bookended by two fantastic years in 2005 and 2007. Nobody is saying that Cedeno should be handed a job, but he should at least be in the discussion if the Cubs don't bring in someone from outside the organization.

 

Actually, if we don't bring in someone from outside, I (and I think several others) are saying Cedeno should be handed the job. And he shouldn't be yanked if he sucks for 2-3 weeks. I think that's exactly what we're saying.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

Wait, so you think we need to improve our starting pitching because of the NLDS? Only 3 starters started games in the NLDS. Which of Z, Lilly, and Hill is it that we should rush to replace? And who, pray tell, in the world are we going to acquire that's an improvement on those 3 this season? Seriously. I thought you were arguing that we replace Marquis with someone less likely to suck. But it seems like you're arguing that Z, Lilly and/or Hill should be shown the door. In which case, I'm not sure we have the assets to even begin to fix our problems.

 

You don't think we could use another quality starter? I didn't say anything about getting rid of anyone, and I don't base that on the NLDS exclusively. We lost because we didn't hit.

 

If you get the opportunity to add another quality starter, sure, go for it. But the first, second and third thing they do is improve the offense. It is, by far, the most glaring need. If they have money to spend, and spend it on pitching, they would not be doing a good job.