Why are people in such a hurry to get Theriot out of town?

[Rob]

Why don't we all watch what we're posting. There are a few posters who are flirting with (if not actually) violating board rules.

 

No, you shut up.

 

Fair enough, you make a compelling argument.

 

That's what we in the persuasion business call an appeal to logos.

[CubColtPacer]

How does this relate back to Theriot/Cedeno? Cedeno is capable of making good contact. He has decent power. He had an awful 2006, to be sure, bookended by two fantastic years in 2005 and 2007. Nobody is saying that Cedeno should be handed a job, but he should at least be in the discussion if the Cubs don't bring in someone from outside the organization.

 

Actually, if we don't bring in someone from outside, I (and I think several others) are saying Cedeno should be handed the job. And he shouldn't be yanked if he sucks for 2-3 weeks. I think that's exactly what we're saying.

 

Cedeno hasn't done enough to be handed that long of a leash. The Cubs cannot afford to give him 3 more months to struggle when they will have other young players who haven't gotten nearly the shot that Cedeno has that deserve longer leashes (Pie and Soto). Cedeno should be given a good shot to win the job in ST if nobody is brought in, and they shouldn't manage day by day. IMO, Cedeno shouldn't be given any more time to prove himself than Izturis did this year.

[SouthSideRyan]

How does this relate back to Theriot/Cedeno? Cedeno is capable of making good contact. He has decent power. He had an awful 2006, to be sure, bookended by two fantastic years in 2005 and 2007. Nobody is saying that Cedeno should be handed a job, but he should at least be in the discussion if the Cubs don't bring in someone from outside the organization.

 

Actually, if we don't bring in someone from outside, I (and I think several others) are saying Cedeno should be handed the job. And he shouldn't be yanked if he sucks for 2-3 weeks. I think that's exactly what we're saying.

 

Cedeno hasn't done enough to be handed that long of a leash. The Cubs cannot afford to give him 3 more months to struggle when they will have other young players who haven't gotten nearly the shot that Cedeno has that deserve longer leashes (Pie and Soto). Cedeno should be given a good shot to win the job in ST if nobody is brought in, and they shouldn't manage day by day. IMO, Cedeno shouldn't be given any more time to prove himself than Izturis did this year.

 

Izturis had a long track record of sucking at all levels. He didn't deserve any leash except for one with which to choke him.

 

If Cedeno doesn't deserve a long leash, than neither does Theriot.

 

I keep repeating it over and over again but Cedeno was 23 in his replacement level season in '06. Theriot at the age of 23 couldn't handle A ball pitching competently. If the 2 swapped levels at those ages(A 23 year old Ronny in A/AA ball and a 23 year old Theriot in the majors) the numbers would greatly be in Ronny's favor. Giving Theriot the inside edge because he was brought up when actually ready unlike Ronny seems just a bit unfair.

[CubColtPacer]

How does this relate back to Theriot/Cedeno? Cedeno is capable of making good contact. He has decent power. He had an awful 2006, to be sure, bookended by two fantastic years in 2005 and 2007. Nobody is saying that Cedeno should be handed a job, but he should at least be in the discussion if the Cubs don't bring in someone from outside the organization.

 

Actually, if we don't bring in someone from outside, I (and I think several others) are saying Cedeno should be handed the job. And he shouldn't be yanked if he sucks for 2-3 weeks. I think that's exactly what we're saying.

 

Cedeno hasn't done enough to be handed that long of a leash. The Cubs cannot afford to give him 3 more months to struggle when they will have other young players who haven't gotten nearly the shot that Cedeno has that deserve longer leashes (Pie and Soto). Cedeno should be given a good shot to win the job in ST if nobody is brought in, and they shouldn't manage day by day. IMO, Cedeno shouldn't be given any more time to prove himself than Izturis did this year.

 

Izturis had a long track record of sucking at all levels. He didn't deserve any leash except for one with which to choke him.

 

If Cedeno doesn't deserve a long leash, than neither does Theriot.

 

I keep repeating it over and over again but Cedeno was 23 in his replacement level season in '06. Theriot at the age of 23 couldn't handle A ball pitching competently. If the 2 swapped levels at those ages(A 23 year old Ronny in A/AA ball and a 23 year old Theriot in the majors) the numbers would greatly be in Ronny's favor. Giving Theriot the inside edge because he was brought up when actually ready unlike Ronny seems just a bit unfair.

 

Theriot doesn't deserve a long leash either at all. The job should go to the person who is playing better, and if that person struggles for 3-4 weeks straight the other person should get a shot. I'm all for Cedeno getting a shot (although I'd try hard to upgrade SS this winter), and I still think he potentially becomes a pretty good major league SS. I do disagree with the assertion made a couple quotes above that he should be handed the job and allowed to struggle for multiple months in a row before even being considered to be removed from the starting lineup.

[Guest]

I would let him struggle until June. There is no reason to replace him with Theriot who doesn't really improve your chances to win anyway. Choosing based on who is hot in March seems particularly silly.

[NCCubFan]

If the Cubs had a big 3 of ARod, Matt Holiday and CFielder, I wouldnt mind Theriot at SS.

I don't think Cecil Fielder would help the Cubs. Maybe 15 years ago he would have.

 

Prince Fielder, on the other hand..... :D

[Backtobanks]

Sign ARod and you don't have to worry about Cedeno/Theriot and Murton and Pie in the everyday lineup. Case closed.

[Tracer Bullet]

How does this relate back to Theriot/Cedeno? Cedeno is capable of making good contact. He has decent power. He had an awful 2006, to be sure, bookended by two fantastic years in 2005 and 2007. Nobody is saying that Cedeno should be handed a job, but he should at least be in the discussion if the Cubs don't bring in someone from outside the organization.

 

Actually, if we don't bring in someone from outside, I (and I think several others) are saying Cedeno should be handed the job. And he shouldn't be yanked if he sucks for 2-3 weeks. I think that's exactly what we're saying.

 

Cedeno hasn't done enough to be handed that long of a leash. The Cubs cannot afford to give him 3 more months to struggle when they will have other young players who haven't gotten nearly the shot that Cedeno has that deserve longer leashes (Pie and Soto). Cedeno should be given a good shot to win the job in ST if nobody is brought in, and they shouldn't manage day by day. IMO, Cedeno shouldn't be given any more time to prove himself than Izturis did this year.

 

If we head into next season with only Cedeno and Theriot available to play SS, Cedeno should be the starter and we shouldn't be eager to replace him with Theriot. If we had a league average SS and Cedeno won the battle for the starting gig, I'd be ok with a short leash. But since we can be fairly certain that Theriot isn't going to put up league average numbers all season, there's no reason not to give Cedeno a little more time (maybe not 3 months, I don't know, but more than 2-3 weeks - lots of great players struggle for 2-3 weeks, so you have to expect it from all players at some point).

[Tracer Bullet]

From all of the posts that I've read on this topic, I think everyone can agree on these points:

1. If the Cubs can improve at SS in a trade, they definitely should explore this option.

2. Neither Cedeno or Theriot has shown enough at the major league level to be declared the obvious starter. Without a trade, SS should be open competition.

3. The Cubs will definitely need to have upgraded production from RF (Murton/Trade) and C (Soto) to balance out the expected offensive struggles with Pie and Cedeno/Theriot in the lineup.

 

When you say "from all the posts" you must have just not read many of them b/c I don't think #2 is true at all. I and others have made it pretty clear that if an improvement is not acquired, Cedeno should be starting. I frankly don't care if he struggles a little in ST either. Theriot could OPS .900 in ST and then suck for 5 months (like the 5 months he sucked this year).

[CUBZ99]

How does this relate back to Theriot/Cedeno? Cedeno is capable of making good contact. He has decent power. He had an awful 2006, to be sure, bookended by two fantastic years in 2005 and 2007. Nobody is saying that Cedeno should be handed a job, but he should at least be in the discussion if the Cubs don't bring in someone from outside the organization.

 

Actually, if we don't bring in someone from outside, I (and I think several others) are saying Cedeno should be handed the job. And he shouldn't be yanked if he sucks for 2-3 weeks. I think that's exactly what we're saying.

 

Cedeno hasn't done enough to be handed that long of a leash. The Cubs cannot afford to give him 3 more months to struggle when they will have other young players who haven't gotten nearly the shot that Cedeno has that deserve longer leashes (Pie and Soto). Cedeno should be given a good shot to win the job in ST if nobody is brought in, and they shouldn't manage day by day. IMO, Cedeno shouldn't be given any more time to prove himself than Izturis did this year.

 

If we head into next season with only Cedeno and Theriot available to play SS, Cedeno should be the starter and we shouldn't be eager to replace him with Theriot. If we had a league average SS and Cedeno won the battle for the starting gig, I'd be ok with a short leash. But since we can be fairly certain that Theriot isn't going to put up league average numbers all season, there's no reason not to give Cedeno a little more time (maybe not 3 months, I don't know, but more than 2-3 weeks - lots of great players struggle for 2-3 weeks, so you have to expect it from all players at some point).

 

Why would you be so willing to have a guy with a OBP over .50 pts higher sit on the bench so you could play a guy with a career .600 OPS try to work it out? Maybe I'm crazy but, .55pts in OBP is a significant difference between players. Cedeno has already had over 500 Abs in one year to stuggle. Last year he had the same shot Theriot had to win the job. This isn't a beauty pagent, you play the player that gives you the best chance to win and so far that has been Theriot. Sure Cedeno can improve, but I'm not against making him earn it, rather than just blindly sticking with him because he looks like he should be a better player.

[SouthSideRyan]

How does this relate back to Theriot/Cedeno? Cedeno is capable of making good contact. He has decent power. He had an awful 2006, to be sure, bookended by two fantastic years in 2005 and 2007. Nobody is saying that Cedeno should be handed a job, but he should at least be in the discussion if the Cubs don't bring in someone from outside the organization.

 

Actually, if we don't bring in someone from outside, I (and I think several others) are saying Cedeno should be handed the job. And he shouldn't be yanked if he sucks for 2-3 weeks. I think that's exactly what we're saying.

 

Cedeno hasn't done enough to be handed that long of a leash. The Cubs cannot afford to give him 3 more months to struggle when they will have other young players who haven't gotten nearly the shot that Cedeno has that deserve longer leashes (Pie and Soto). Cedeno should be given a good shot to win the job in ST if nobody is brought in, and they shouldn't manage day by day. IMO, Cedeno shouldn't be given any more time to prove himself than Izturis did this year.

 

If we head into next season with only Cedeno and Theriot available to play SS, Cedeno should be the starter and we shouldn't be eager to replace him with Theriot. If we had a league average SS and Cedeno won the battle for the starting gig, I'd be ok with a short leash. But since we can be fairly certain that Theriot isn't going to put up league average numbers all season, there's no reason not to give Cedeno a little more time (maybe not 3 months, I don't know, but more than 2-3 weeks - lots of great players struggle for 2-3 weeks, so you have to expect it from all players at some point).

 

Why would you be so willing to have a guy with a OBP over .50 pts higher sit on the bench so you could play a guy with a career .600 OPS try to work it out? Maybe I'm crazy but, .55pts in OBP is a significant difference between players. Cedeno has already had over 500 Abs in one year to stuggle. Last year he had the same shot Theriot had to win the job. This isn't a beauty pagent, you play the player that gives you the best chance to win and so far that has been Theriot. Sure Cedeno can improve, but I'm not against making him earn it, rather than just blindly sticking with him because he looks like he should be a better player.

 

Professor!!...lava!!!...hot!!!

 

Cedeno's major league season was at an age Ryan Theriot was in A/AA. If Ryan Theriot's lone major league season was at age 23 he'd likely have worse major league numbers than Cedeno.

[Abe Frohman]

Why would you be so willing to have a guy with a OBP over .50 pts higher sit on the bench so you could play a guy with a career .600 OPS try to work it out? Maybe I'm crazy but, .55pts in OBP is a significant difference between players. Cedeno has already had over 500 Abs in one year to stuggle. Last year he had the same shot Theriot had to win the job. This isn't a beauty pagent, you play the player that gives you the best chance to win and so far that has been Theriot. Sure Cedeno can improve, but I'm not against making him earn it, rather than just blindly sticking with him because he looks like he should be a better player.

 

Amen.

 

Cedeno's major league season was at an age Ryan Theriot was in A/AA. If Ryan Theriot's lone major league season was at age 23 he'd likely have worse major league numbers than Cedeno.

 

I doubt it. Too bad we'll never know.

Edited October 16, 2007 by Abe Frohman

[CubinNY]

Why would you be so willing to have a guy with a OBP over .50 pts higher sit on the bench so you could play a guy with a career .600 OPS try to work it out? Maybe I'm crazy but, .55pts in OBP is a significant difference between players. Cedeno has already had over 500 Abs in one year to stuggle. Last year he had the same shot Theriot had to win the job. This isn't a beauty pagent, you play the player that gives you the best chance to win and so far that has been Theriot. Sure Cedeno can improve, but I'm not against making him earn it, rather than just blindly sticking with him because he looks like he should be a better player.

 

Amen.

Do you not read posts in this thread and just post random statments?

[Abe Frohman]

Why would you be so willing to have a guy with a OBP over .50 pts higher sit on the bench so you could play a guy with a career .600 OPS try to work it out? Maybe I'm crazy but, .55pts in OBP is a significant difference between players. Cedeno has already had over 500 Abs in one year to stuggle. Last year he had the same shot Theriot had to win the job. This isn't a beauty pagent, you play the player that gives you the best chance to win and so far that has been Theriot. Sure Cedeno can improve, but I'm not against making him earn it, rather than just blindly sticking with him because he looks like he should be a better player.

 

Amen.

Do you not read posts in this thread and just post random statments?

 

I read them. Don't agree with all of them, is that OK with you? I agree with CUBZ99, can you deal with that?

[CubinNY]

Why would you be so willing to have a guy with a OBP over .50 pts higher sit on the bench so you could play a guy with a career .600 OPS try to work it out? Maybe I'm crazy but, .55pts in OBP is a significant difference between players. Cedeno has already had over 500 Abs in one year to stuggle. Last year he had the same shot Theriot had to win the job. This isn't a beauty pagent, you play the player that gives you the best chance to win and so far that has been Theriot. Sure Cedeno can improve, but I'm not against making him earn it, rather than just blindly sticking with him because he looks like he should be a better player.

 

Amen.

Do you not read posts in this thread and just post random statments?

 

I read them. Don't agree with all of them, is that OK with you? I agree with CUBZ99, can you deal with that?

I can deal. It's just sort of amusing that the person's contention was completely destoyed in the post above yours and then you post "amen" as if you are in church or something without regard to how foolish it looks.

 

To that I say, coffee cup.

[Backtobanks]

From all of the posts that I've read on this topic, I think everyone can agree on these points:

1. If the Cubs can improve at SS in a trade, they definitely should explore this option.

2. Neither Cedeno or Theriot has shown enough at the major league level to be declared the obvious starter. Without a trade, SS should be open competition.

3. The Cubs will definitely need to have upgraded production from RF (Murton/Trade) and C (Soto) to balance out the expected offensive struggles with Pie and Cedeno/Theriot in the lineup.

 

When you say "from all the posts" you must have just not read many of them b/c I don't think #2 is true at all. I and others have made it pretty clear that if an improvement is not acquired, Cedeno should be starting. I frankly don't care if he struggles a little in ST either. Theriot could OPS .900 in ST and then suck for 5 months (like the 5 months he sucked this year).

 

I guess I shouldn't have written "from all the posts", but there were some posters who felt that Theriot should start. My point in #2 is that neither player has produced enough at the major league level to be handed the starting job and I stand by that statement. Many people have pointed out that Cedeno is younger and has a higher ceiling, but so far his major league numbers have been terrible. All of this gets back to the question of whether the Cubs can afford to be patient with Pie, Cedeno/Theriot, Murton, and Soto all in the starting lineup while the team tries to contend.

[Guest]

Why would you be so willing to have a guy with a OBP over .50 pts higher sit on the bench so you could play a guy with a career .600 OPS try to work it out? Maybe I'm crazy but, .55pts in OBP is a significant difference between players. Cedeno has already had over 500 Abs in one year to stuggle. Last year he had the same shot Theriot had to win the job. This isn't a beauty pagent, you play the player that gives you the best chance to win and so far that has been Theriot. Sure Cedeno can improve, but I'm not against making him earn it, rather than just blindly sticking with him because he looks like he should be a better player.

 

How does Cedeno earn it?

 

Why has Theriot earned *anything* since he's been below average?

[jersey cubs fan]

I really don't understand how this has gone on so long, but I'd just like to say I don't necessarily want to see Theriot run out of town. I just want to see him replaced as a starter with somebody who can do better. Theriot can still help the team by doing what he's qualified to do, being a utility player. That is, at least until he becomes arbitration eligible and starts to make more than he's worth. If some team wants him in a trade for a good bat, I wouldn't hesitate to include him, but I doubt he holds all that much value to be shopping him around.

[Guest]

Cedeno's major league season was at an age Ryan Theriot was in A/AA. If Ryan Theriot's lone major league season was at age 23 he'd likely have worse major league numbers than Cedeno.

 

I doubt it. Too bad we'll never know.

 

It's probable. When Ryan Theriot was 23, he posted a .259/.353/.318 line at low-A Lansing and a .236/.351/.270 line at AA West Tenn. This is why age is an issue. Ryan Theriot came up to the big leagues when he was prepared to do his best (.326 OBP last year in the bigs!).

 

Cedeno came up at a younger, less appropriate age and struggled in the big leagues. He has since made adjustments (just ask Lou) and killed AAA while Theriot had a .326 OBP in the bigs. And Cedeno was great in a small sample in September while Theriot continued his awful non-June season.

[Tracer Bullet]

Why would you be so willing to have a guy with a OBP over .50 pts higher sit on the bench so you could play a guy with a career .600 OPS try to work it out? Maybe I'm crazy but, .55pts in OBP is a significant difference between players. Cedeno has already had over 500 Abs in one year to stuggle. Last year he had the same shot Theriot had to win the job. This isn't a beauty pagent, you play the player that gives you the best chance to win and so far that has been Theriot. Sure Cedeno can improve, but I'm not against making him earn it, rather than just blindly sticking with him because he looks like he should be a better player.

 

Amen.

 

Cedeno's major league season was at an age Ryan Theriot was in A/AA. If Ryan Theriot's lone major league season was at age 23 he'd likely have worse major league numbers than Cedeno.

 

I doubt it. Too bad we'll never know.

 

Are you kidding me? You post random "facts" and then contradict the most basic proposal (in this case - if Theriot was in A/AA when he was 23 and not exactly tearing it up, the proposal says he wouldn't have posted better than a .600 OPS in the majors and you disagree w/ no argument of support whatsoever).

[NewUserName]

Why would you be so willing to have a guy with a OBP over .50 pts higher sit on the bench so you could play a guy with a career .600 OPS try to work it out? Maybe I'm crazy but, .55pts in OBP is a significant difference between players. Cedeno has already had over 500 Abs in one year to stuggle. Last year he had the same shot Theriot had to win the job. This isn't a beauty pagent, you play the player that gives you the best chance to win and so far that has been Theriot. Sure Cedeno can improve, but I'm not against making him earn it, rather than just blindly sticking with him because he looks like he should be a better player.

 

Amen.

 

Cedeno's major league season was at an age Ryan Theriot was in A/AA. If Ryan Theriot's lone major league season was at age 23 he'd likely have worse major league numbers than Cedeno.

 

I doubt it. Too bad we'll never know.

 

Are you kidding me? You post random "facts" and then contradict the most basic proposal (in this case - if Theriot was in A/AA when he was 23 and not exactly tearing it up, the proposal says he wouldn't have posted better than a .600 OPS in the majors and you disagree w/ no argument of support whatsoever).

 

 

Minors are about numbers, Majors are about Grit. Theriot would of grittied his way to better numbers if he was allowed to play at 23 in the show!!

[Tracer Bullet]

From all of the posts that I've read on this topic, I think everyone can agree on these points:

1. If the Cubs can improve at SS in a trade, they definitely should explore this option.

2. Neither Cedeno or Theriot has shown enough at the major league level to be declared the obvious starter. Without a trade, SS should be open competition.

3. The Cubs will definitely need to have upgraded production from RF (Murton/Trade) and C (Soto) to balance out the expected offensive struggles with Pie and Cedeno/Theriot in the lineup.

 

When you say "from all the posts" you must have just not read many of them b/c I don't think #2 is true at all. I and others have made it pretty clear that if an improvement is not acquired, Cedeno should be starting. I frankly don't care if he struggles a little in ST either. Theriot could OPS .900 in ST and then suck for 5 months (like the 5 months he sucked this year).

 

I guess I shouldn't have written "from all the posts", but there were some posters who felt that Theriot should start. My point in #2 is that neither player has produced enough at the major league level to be handed the starting job and I stand by that statement. Many people have pointed out that Cedeno is younger and has a higher ceiling, but so far his major league numbers have been terrible. All of this gets back to the question of whether the Cubs can afford to be patient with Pie, Cedeno/Theriot, Murton, and Soto all in the starting lineup while the team tries to contend.

 

I understand your opinion, but to say "everyone can agree that...SS should be an open competition" is just a false conclusion based on the pages of arguments here. Several posters have made clear that, absent a trade, they'd prefer to give Cedeno a long look. How you spin that into SS should be an open competition, so that "everyone agrees" with what is your opinion, I don't know.

[Tracer Bullet]

Cedeno's major league season was at an age Ryan Theriot was in A/AA. If Ryan Theriot's lone major league season was at age 23 he'd likely have worse major league numbers than Cedeno.

 

I doubt it. Too bad we'll never know.

 

It's probable. When Ryan Theriot was 23, he posted a .259/.353/.318 line at low-A Lansing and a .236/.351/.270 line at AA West Tenn. This is why age is an issue. Ryan Theriot came up to the big leagues when he was prepared to do his best (.326 OBP last year in the bigs!).

 

Cedeno came up at a younger, less appropriate age and struggled in the big leagues. He has since made adjustments (just ask Lou) and killed AAA while Theriot had a .326 OBP in the bigs. And Cedeno was great in a small sample in September while Theriot continued his awful non-June season.

 

Great post, Raisin. "probable" might be understating it just a tad.

[Abe Frohman]

 

Are you kidding me? You post random "facts" and then contradict the most basic proposal (in this case - if Theriot was in A/AA when he was 23 and not exactly tearing it up, the proposal says he wouldn't have posted better than a .600 OPS in the majors and you disagree w/ no argument of support whatsoever).

 

Both players are totally different situations. When Theriot was in the lower minors, he was switch hitting - a failed experiment. Ronny is full of potential, I realize that - all I am saying is that you are NOT going back in time to put Theriot on the big league team just so you can prove that Ronny's crappy full season in 2006 would have been better than Theriots, should he have been in the ML's when he was 23. Like I said - we will never know.

 

The reason I doubt it is because Theriot has some idea of plate discipline while Cedeno has none. He had a great season in AAA, and I think that it should help him in the future - but I think they are totally different types of hitters. Cedeno is a lot like Shawon Dunston - he has speed, a little pop, and might be a good Major League SS, but he is not going to take a walk, and probably won't have an OB% over .300, unless he hits over .300 - which is a pipedream.

 

Theriot has some plate discipline, and it wouldn't shock me to see him bounce back with a .280/.350 type season with a lot of runs scored and 30+ stolen bases - if he can hold on to the starting SS job.

 

Basically, Cedeno showed me enough in 2006. He has done nothing at the Major League level to show that he is anything but overmatched at the plate. He is a stupid baserunner, and erratic defensively. We are better off with Theriot unless someone else is acquired through trade.

[Tracer Bullet]

 

Are you kidding me? You post random "facts" and then contradict the most basic proposal (in this case - if Theriot was in A/AA when he was 23 and not exactly tearing it up, the proposal says he wouldn't have posted better than a .600 OPS in the majors and you disagree w/ no argument of support whatsoever).

 

Both players are totally different situations. When Theriot was in the lower minors, he was switch hitting - a failed experiment. Ronny is full of potential, I realize that - all I am saying is that you are NOT going back in time to put Theriot on the big league team just so you can prove that Ronny's crappy full season in 2006 would have been better than Theriots, should he have been in the ML's when he was 23. Like I said - we will never know.

 

The reason I doubt it is because Theriot has some idea of plate discipline while Cedeno has none. He had a great season in AAA, and I think that it should help him in the future - but I think they are totally different types of hitters. Cedeno is a lot like Shawon Dunston - he has speed, a little pop, and might be a good Major League SS, but he is not going to take a walk, and probably won't have an OB% over .300, unless he hits over .300 - which is a pipedream.

 

Theriot has some plate discipline, and it wouldn't shock me to see him bounce back with a .280/.350 type season with a lot of runs scored and 30+ stolen bases - if he can hold on to the starting SS job.

 

Basically, Cedeno showed me enough in 2006. He has done nothing at the Major League level to show that he is anything but overmatched at the plate. He is a stupid baserunner, and erratic defensively. We are better off with Theriot unless someone else is acquired through trade.

 

It's pretty simple, really. If, when you're 23, you're putting up pretty crappy numbers in A and AA, you're not going to be putting up good numbers in the majors. To argue Theriot would have put up a .280/.350 line (or whatever) in the majors when he was 23, given the numbers he put up in A/AA when he was 23, is just crazy. There's simply no basis for that conclusion.