SS needs - why Renteria or Tejada?

[d_money]

Much talk on the NSBB is that the most glaring offensive need is the Cubs upgrading at either/or RF and SS. Much of the talk is acquiring Renteria or Tejada.

 

My question is - why these 2? Both are on the wrong side of 30 and the possibility of a decline in performance is to be expected over the next couple of years. They've had good careers, but I don't think these guys are the answer - the Cubs would be getting players beyond their prime.

 

Are there other SS options available (ie. similar to an ARamirez type player - young, good) that we could get? Someone under contract with a team with a surplus of talent may be interested in young pitchers with similar contract situations (Marshall, Cherry, Hart, etc..).

 

I don't have the answer, but just asking.

[BigbadB]

Because there aren't any SS's available that fit your description.

[d_money]

So, we'll overpay (either in dollars or prospects or both) to obtain one of these 2? Knowing the payroll situation (back loaded salaries) and ownership in flux - how realistic of a possibility is this? I would guess not much. Which is why I pose the question.

[Derwood]

A-Rod

[Backtobanks]

Because there aren't any SS's available that fit your description.

 

There aren't many teams willing to give up a starting SS that is 26-28 years old. One outside possibility besides Renteria, Tejada, and ARod is Furcal if the Dodgers are willing to go with their top prospect at SS.

[CuseCubFan69]

How about a 22 or so year old kid like Ramirez of the Marlins? How are the best SS prospects out there around that age?

[jjgman21]

How about a 22 or so year old kid like Ramirez of the Marlins? How are the best SS prospects out there around that age?

 

and where is our Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell that will land such a talent.

[jjgman21]

what I would do about shortstop would be an extension of what I would do about left field and second base. yes, a few runners thrown out on the basepaths is thrilling, but if Soriano had a clue on what angle to take to flyballs and had the ability to control his body in order to make a running catch, the Marlins and DBacks series possibly turn out quite a bit different.

 

I would put DeRo at short, Soriano back to the infield, Murton in left or right, depending on who is acquired for the other outfield corner spot.

[CuseCubFan69]

How about a 22 or so year old kid like Ramirez of the Marlins? How are the best SS prospects out there around that age?

 

and where is our Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell that will land such a talent.

 

Great answer, thanks.

[jjgman21]

How about a 22 or so year old kid like Ramirez of the Marlins? How are the best SS prospects out there around that age?

 

and where is our Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell that will land such a talent.

 

Great answer, thanks.

 

more than happy to put fantasy transactions to rest before they become cumbersome in these threads, so no problem.

[OleMissCub]

How about a 22 or so year old kid like Ramirez of the Marlins? How are the best SS prospects out there around that age?

 

It would take an arm and a leg to get someone like that: a 23 year old SS who hits 330, steals 50 bases, hits 30 hr, etc.

[Tracer Bullet]

How about a 22 or so year old kid like Ramirez of the Marlins? How are the best SS prospects out there around that age?

 

It would take an arm and a leg to get someone like that: a 23 year old SS who hits 330, steals 50 bases, hits 30 hr, etc.

 

Arm & a leg? Are they having a fire sale? I can't imagine who the Marlins would have to get in order to give up HRam. He might not be a real slick fielder, but his offense dwarfs whatever shortcomings he has on D. I'm struggling to come up with a single player I'd trade straight up for him, if I were the Marlins.

[Outshined_One]

How about a 22 or so year old kid like Ramirez of the Marlins? How are the best SS prospects out there around that age?

 

The problem with finding those kinds of guys is that they are so incredibly valuable to teams. The advantage of having a great SS is that the guy almost certainly has the goods to play pretty much any position if he's blocked. Asdrubal Cabrera for the Indians is a guy I'd absolutely love to have with Peralta blocking him. However, the Indians can easily shift him to another position and still get good defense and good offensive production out of him. Getting guys like that who are cheap, productive, and play the most valuable position well is next to impossible.

 

The best the Cubs can do if they want to look young is to find someone who is talented, undervalued, and could still play in the majors next season. At the time he was traded, Hanley Ramirez was a good prospect, but there were questions about whether some facets of his game would develop enough to make him a good everyday player. Had Boston known just how much and how quickly he'd have developed, they would never have traded him.

 

The thing is, I honestly can't think of anyone who fits that bill.

[OleMissCub]

How about a 22 or so year old kid like Ramirez of the Marlins? How are the best SS prospects out there around that age?

 

It would take an arm and a leg to get someone like that: a 23 year old SS who hits 330, steals 50 bases, hits 30 hr, etc.

 

Arm & a leg? Are they having a fire sale? I can't imagine who the Marlins would have to get in order to give up HRam. He might not be a real slick fielder, but his offense dwarfs whatever shortcomings he has on D. I'm struggling to come up with a single player I'd trade straight up for him, if I were the Marlins.

 

Exactly my point. What would we have to give them in order to get him.

[nilodnayr]

UGH, I just had a long post on the top SS prospects deleted...I don't feel like writing it again, but the conclusion was that its a weak class (and weak draft), Brignac is the best of the bunch and is very very much in the future plans for the D-Rays.

 

Other SS prospects

 

Hu (Dodgers)--really good defensively, insane offensive year out of nowhere. Not as flukey as you would think. Dodgers only have one more year on the Furcal deal.

 

Lillibridge (Braves)--good all around, really good defense and speed. Most likely to be dealt as hes blocked by Escobar (and Renteria for now).

 

Lowrie (Red Sox)--better hitter and patience than Lillibridge, defense might move him across the bag. If he has to move to 2B they will deal him.

 

Not a lot to write home about after those guys.

 

All except Brignac started in AA and ended in AAA. Unless trades occur, all will start in the minors but end up in the majors next year (including Brignac).

[rawaction]

UGH, I just had a long post on the top SS prospects deleted...I don't feel like writing it again, but the conclusion was that its a weak class (and weak draft), Brignac is the best of the bunch and is very very much in the future plans for the D-Rays.

 

Other SS prospects

 

Hu (Dodgers)--really good defensively, insane offensive year out of nowhere. Not as flukey as you would think. Dodgers only have one more year on the Furcal deal.

 

Lillibridge (Braves)--good all around, really good defense and speed. Most likely to be dealt as hes blocked by Escobar (and Renteria for now).

 

Lowrie (Red Sox)--better hitter and patience than Lillibridge, defense might move him across the bag. If he has to move to 2B they will deal him.

 

Not a lot to write home about after those guys.

 

All except Brignac started in AA and ended in AAA. Unless trades occur, all will start in the minors but end up in the majors next year (including Brignac).

 

Some random thoughts:

 

I'm hearing when Lillibridge is ready, the Braves could go with Escobar at 2B, moving Kelly Johnson back to the OF. I think Lowrie will end up at 2B.

 

I would trade for any of those names, just to have someone else to throw in the mix.

 

Hanley Ramirez is possibly the best player in the NL right now. I don't see him being traded at all. Miguel Cabrera is more likely because of his girth.

 

RF is a bigger hole than SS. The Cubs have been getting middle IF like production for what is supposed to be a big time offensive position. Get a slightly above league avg RF and you can hide the SS in the 8-hole if Soto and Pie/Jones hit like they can/should.

[jersey cubs fan]

RF is a bigger hole than SS. The Cubs have been getting middle IF like production for what is supposed to be a big time offensive position. Get a slightly above league avg RF and you can hide the SS in the 8-hole if Soto and Pie/Jones hit like they can/should.

 

In all fairness, they got the 6th best NL OPS out of RF this year. Granted, teams 6-10 were all closely bunched, but the Cubs biggest holes were SS, C and CF. If they can get an impact RF, I'm all for it.

[Guest]

The best the Cubs can do if they want to look young is to find someone who is talented, undervalued, and could still play in the majors next season.

...

The thing is, I honestly can't think of anyone who fits that bill.

 

Ronny Cedeno.

[SouthSideRyan]

The best the Cubs can do if they want to look young is to find someone who is talented, undervalued, and could still play in the majors next season.

...

The thing is, I honestly can't think of anyone who fits that bill.

 

Ronny Cedeno.

 

Thank you.

[CuseCubFan69]

How about a 22 or so year old kid like Ramirez of the Marlins? How are the best SS prospects out there around that age?

 

The problem with finding those kinds of guys is that they are so incredibly valuable to teams. The advantage of having a great SS is that the guy almost certainly has the goods to play pretty much any position if he's blocked. Asdrubal Cabrera for the Indians is a guy I'd absolutely love to have with Peralta blocking him. However, the Indians can easily shift him to another position and still get good defense and good offensive production out of him. Getting guys like that who are cheap, productive, and play the most valuable position well is next to impossible.

 

The best the Cubs can do if they want to look young is to find someone who is talented, undervalued, and could still play in the majors next season. At the time he was traded, Hanley Ramirez was a good prospect, but there were questions about whether some facets of his game would develop enough to make him a good everyday player. Had Boston known just how much and how quickly he'd have developed, they would never have traded him.

 

The thing is, I honestly can't think of anyone who fits that bill.

 

See that's the key. To be able to evaluate better than the other guy. For some of the other posts, I don't expect the Cubs to get H. Ramirez, I just want them thinking ahead and not just getting some B type free agent and hoping that works out.

[Outshined_One]

The best the Cubs can do if they want to look young is to find someone who is talented, undervalued, and could still play in the majors next season.

...

The thing is, I honestly can't think of anyone who fits that bill.

 

Ronny Cedeno.

 

Thank you.

 

I was thinking it, but didn't want to come out and say it. :lol:

[Backtobanks]

UGH, I just had a long post on the top SS prospects deleted...I don't feel like writing it again, but the conclusion was that its a weak class (and weak draft), Brignac is the best of the bunch and is very very much in the future plans for the D-Rays.

 

Other SS prospects

 

Hu (Dodgers)--really good defensively, insane offensive year out of nowhere. Not as flukey as you would think. Dodgers only have one more year on the Furcal deal.

 

Lillibridge (Braves)--good all around, really good defense and speed. Most likely to be dealt as hes blocked by Escobar (and Renteria for now).

 

Lowrie (Red Sox)--better hitter and patience than Lillibridge, defense might move him across the bag. If he has to move to 2B they will deal him.

 

Not a lot to write home about after those guys.

 

All except Brignac started in AA and ended in AAA. Unless trades occur, all will start in the minors but end up in the majors next year (including Brignac).

 

The problem with any of these guys is that they're prospects and there's no guarantee that they will end up any better than Cedeno or Theriot.

[d_money]

The best the Cubs can do if they want to look young is to find someone who is talented, undervalued, and could still play in the majors next season.

...

The thing is, I honestly can't think of anyone who fits that bill.

 

Ronny Cedeno.

 

Thank you.

 

I was thinking it, but didn't want to come out and say it. :lol:

 

Which Ronny are you talking about - no disciplined Ronny swinging for the fences when with the Cubs, or AAA Ronny who is focused and doing the little things right? The one I've seen drives me nuts at the plate.

[SouthSideRyan]

Which Ronny are you talking about - no disciplined Ronny swinging for the fences when with the Cubs, or AAA Ronny who is focused and doing the little things right? The one I've seen drives me nuts at the plate.

 

The 24 year old who has murdered the ball over 2 half seasons in AAA where he's age appropriate. I don't deny that this is pretty much make or break time for Ronny as a prospect. He'll be 25 next year, and I believe out of options. I wouldn't let him prevent me from trading for a Renteria or Tejada(which my gut tells me the Cubs will do), but if no upgrade is made at SS, and we run out Theriot at SS on opening day instead of Ronny, I'm going to be pissed.

[badnews]

I think the Braves' prospects hype system is a scam. I went on record in June saying I didn't think Saltalamacchia was that good, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he was another Andy Marte. I've never been any kind of impressed with Lillibridge or Escobar either. Any time the Braves are ready to trade a prospect, it's like San Diego trading a reliever or the Devil Rays a veteran closer - stay away.

 

Let's go even farther beneath the radar for a sleeper - Sean Rodriguez for the Angels.

 

Ronny is a better bet to break out at shortstop than guys who gets more hype - I'd bet on Cedeno over the much ballyhooed Erick Aybar.

 

Lastly, I trust Renteria about as far as I can shotput a planet. Before he went to the Braves he had more mediocre seasons than good ones. It was a cold year early in the year in Chicago, I don't want to have to listen to any moody complaining about how he can't hit anywhere that's not 90 and muggy.