Do We Really Want This Team to Make the Playoffs?

[NCCubFan]

I always want to see the Cubs make the playoffs. I enjoy watching the playoff games more when I actually care who wins them. Of course I want them to win the World Series, but making the playoffs and losing in the first round is better than not making the playoffs in the first place. And even if a miracle World Championship like last year's Cardinals is unrealistic, there's always the chance that they could at least win a round and advance.

[Guest]

I want the Cubs to make the playoffs but I think Derwood is saying this has 1998 written all over it.

[Soul]

I want the Cubs to make the playoffs but I think Derwood is saying this has 1998 written all over it.

 

Yeap. That's pretty much how I read it too.

 

And I can't say that's wrong. Could very well happen that way. But I've never bought into the "I would rather never go than go and get beat" line of thinking.

 

Give me a chance, any chance. If my team gets slaughtered, I'm still more excited than if they tanked out.

[Yeti]

personally i cant wait for this team to embarrass themselves on a national stage!

[seanimal]

I've received with some serious tongue lashings from my fellow Cubs fan friends for expressing these very same sentiments as Derwood. Of course my emotional junkie/typical sports fan self wants to see my team win and succeed now, outside of the consequences beyond the now. However, when I'm sitting here processing the information in front of me, I want them to lose miserably. Seems counterintuitive to the passive fan, but it really isn't.

[Laura]

If we wait for the perfect team, the perfect management staff, the perfect front office and the perfect situation, it may take a lot longer than 99 more years.

[frostwyrm]

I was one of those who wanted to see the team blown up in the offseason and 2007 used as a rebuilding year. I still think that would have been the the right call 9 years out of 10. This expensive 2007 Cubs team is just as lame as I expected, it's just that the NL Central is worse than I expected. We all knew it would be a weak division but this is ridiculous. I want the Cubs to win the pennant but I'm fully aware that the division doesn't deserve to be represented in the playoffs.

[Peoriaman]

wow is all I can say.

 

This team lost 96 games last year and was the worst club in the NL. Methinks some people have unrealistic expectations for this team. I am thrilled they are in the playoff hunt and will be ecstatic if they make the playoffs. I cannot see how any Cub fan wouldn't be.

[CuseCubFan69]

I want the Cubs to make the playoffs but I think Derwood is saying this has 1998 written all over it.

 

Then they should learn from the past and stop living in it.

[ctcf]

I still can't see any real logic in not wanting this team to make the post season. Why would you even watch?

[RynoRules]

I always want to make the postseason. Even if this team gets unceremoniously bounced in three quick games, I'd still rather make it than not.

[hawkeyecub]

Of course we do. This isn't the NBA where making the playoffs means nothing and means you get a lesser quality draft pick (who can make instant impact).

 

There are few enough teams and the nature of the game makes it so that any of the 4 teams have a very reasonable chance at getting to the World Series. Especially in the NL.

 

We're getting new ownership regardless of what happens this year and they're eventually going to get their people in here. Hendry isn't such a disaster that his being retained an additional year will significantly hamstring our chances in the near future. We have a ton of money tied up already and I believe he's committed and forced to making cost-effective moves.

Really whether he comes back or not, the core and bulk of the team will be roughly the same in '08 and probably '09.

 

What Derwood is saying is that the implications of making the playoffs could be much much worse than an NBA team sneaking out of the lottery.

 

Using the assumption that a playoff appearance validates the organizational phlosophy and therefore would mean continued lack of hope for a truly good team and missing the playoffs would create a turnover in front office personel, I see where he's coming from. HOWEVER, as Rais is pointing out, those are some big assumptions. Missing the playoffs might cause a change in the regime, but theres no guarantee it will be an upgrade. While I'm no Hendry fan, there are worse options out there. Its no guarantee that DePo will be his predecessor if we miss the playoffs.

 

I know exactly what he's saying and I addressed that in my post. Did you stop reading after the first paragraph?

 

Like I said, eventually new ownership will want their own people in charge. Hendry isn't great but he isn't awful either. I think he's pretty much middle of the road. Therefore I wouldn't root for us to lose to see his firing, because there's no sure thing improvement.

Also there is so much money tied up at several spots, the core of the team will be the same regardless. There isn't a lot of flexibility for next year's roster and possibly even '09.

[Wheelimus]

I want this team to make the playoffs because I'd much rather deal with 1 in 8 odds than 1 in NOTHING odds.

 

I'd rather make it, lose, and know what happened rather than always wonder "what might have been".

 

There's still a month to go in the season. The Mets could be hit by injuries and took down. Who knows.

[apete6]

If we wait for the perfect team, the perfect management staff, the perfect front office and the perfect situation, it may take a lot longer than 99 more years.

 

Good point. However, if you look purely at the talent on the 2004 team, how did they not even make the playoffs. Easily the most talented Cubs team EVER, especially in the expansion era. Granted, they were somewhat flawed, but if Joe Borowski stays healthy, they probably make the playoffs and have a great chance to win the WS. Dusty definitely was the weak link in the organization that year.

 

The only real questionable offseason decision was not bringing Lofton back, but even then, Patterson was unbelievable in 03 before he got hurt. Also, you could say they should have signed Tejada, but then they wouldn't have traded for Nomar, so for that season it wasn't really terrible (long term was a different story, obviously).

 

Here's your 25-man roster:

 

Alou, Patterson (shoulda been Lofton), Sosa in the OF

Ramirez, Nomar, Walker/Grudz, Lee in the IF

Barrett had a great year at C

 

Prior, Wood, Maddux, Clement, Zambrano :shock: :shock:

 

Borowski, Hawkins, Remlinger, Mercker, Farnsworth, Rusch, Dempster, Wellemeyer (replaces Borowski)

 

Bench (somewhat weak): Bako, Walker/Grudz, Ramon Martinez, Neifi, Hollandsworth

[CubColtPacer]

The assumption is that the Cubs will get beat badly in any playoff series. I don't see that as a given at all. In any normal year, yes. Somebody brought up 1998-the Cubs had to face a 106 win Atlanta team, and there was also a 102 win Houston team and a 98 win San Diego team in the playoffs. Those were great teams, and so the Cubs were clear underdogs.

 

This year? There won't be any teams that will get to 95 wins. That might be the first time that's happened. There is no great team in the playoffs, and when there is no great team, it will just end up being whoever is hot that will win it. This Cubs team isn't nearly as big of underdogs as they would be in a normal year, and the Cubs should want to get into the playoffs and take their chances with this weak National League.

[TheDude]

While it would save my bank account tremendously for them to miss the playoffs (flight, hotel, tickets), you're damn straight I'm rooting for them to make it.

[hardcorecubfan]

Aside from the "blah blah anything can happen blah 2006 Cardinals blah blah" reasons....

 

....do we really want this team to make the post season? do we want anyone in the new ownership, the front office, the media, etc. thinking this team is doing anything right? do we want this insanely mediocre team to be be rewarded in any way, shape or form?

 

this isn't sour grapes. i just don't know what we accomplish by making the playoffs. outside of an outright WS victory, it just seems useless.

 

Now you sound like we are the LA Dodgers with a bunch of 35 yr olds and this has to be the year. Yes, I'll be sat. with the playoffs and winning as well

[Yeti]

If we wait for the perfect team, the perfect management staff, the perfect front office and the perfect situation, it may take a lot longer than 99 more years.

i'm not waiting on perfection, simple competence would suit me just fine.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Aside from the "blah blah anything can happen blah 2006 Cardinals blah blah" reasons....

 

....do we really want this team to make the post season? do we want anyone in the new ownership, the front office, the media, etc. thinking this team is doing anything right? do we want this insanely mediocre team to be be rewarded in any way, shape or form?

 

this isn't sour grapes. i just don't know what we accomplish by making the playoffs. outside of an outright WS victory, it just seems useless.

 

If you don't want this team to make the playoffs then you are not a fan.

[wolf stansson]

Haha, I started a thread exactly like this at Gateway Redbirds last year. I was really frustrated with band aid crap signings like Weaver (basically the same thing I'm still frustrated with) and I went as far as saying that I wouldn't mind missing the playoffs to teach the front office a lesson.

 

Would this year's team be better if we had missed the playoffs?

Probably, but I would've missed out on the single sweetest experience in my sports fandom life.

 

Obviously odds are, lightning can't strike twice, but I want the Cardinals to make it again this year even if we stand no chance.

[AlwaysaCub]

Aside from the "blah blah anything can happen blah 2006 Cardinals blah blah" reasons....

 

....do we really want this team to make the post season? do we want anyone in the new ownership, the front office, the media, etc. thinking this team is doing anything right? do we want this insanely mediocre team to be be rewarded in any way, shape or form?

 

this isn't sour grapes. i just don't know what we accomplish by making the playoffs. outside of an outright WS victory, it just seems useless.

 

If you don't want this team to make the playoffs then you are not a fan.

 

Why, exactly, is that? I happen to agree with Derwood's point of view, and I still consider myself a fan. Derwood's point is that he, like me, is sick and tired of this 1 decent year ever 4 or 5 with a load of utter crap marketed as a baseball team in the years between. Sure, 98 and 03 were boatloads of fun, but because of those years this franchise has never entered into rebuilding mode. Because the Cubs have never methodically rebuilt, the franchise hasn't fielded a great team in a long time. They have occasionally put decent teams on the field, but great teams win championships a lot more often than pretty decent ones do.

 

In the last 20 years, the following NL teams have not managed a season of 95 wins:

Rockies

Marlins

Brewers

Cubs

 

In fact, we've only won as many as 95 games once (1984) in the last 60 years. If you don't have a good foundation, the playoff years are going to be few and far between.

 

Let me as you, are you a fan of the 2007 Cubs or the Cubs organization?

[Guest]

The playoff run in 2003 probably cost us the future injuries to the pitching staff. I don't think Lou would abuse this staff the same way down the stretch and in the playoffs. I also don't think that jeapordizing the future of Hill & Marshall bears the same cost as doing it to Prior, Wood & Z. That would be my main concern for pushing for the playoffs this year and that risk has already been mitigated by the acquisition of a disposable Trachsel to take some of that load.

 

As for organizational direction, with new management coming in I think that will change however it will change unless the team is lucky enough to make / win the WS. In which case, I'll take the run for what it's worth.

[UK1679666180]

The playoff run in 2003 probably cost us the future injuries to the pitching staff. I don't think Lou would abuse this staff the same way down the stretch and in the playoffs. I also don't think that jeapordizing the future of Hill & Marshall bears the same cost as doing it to Prior, Wood & Z. That would be my main concern for pushing for the playoffs this year and that risk has already been mitigated by the acquisition of a disposable Trachsel to take some of that load.

 

As for organizational direction, with new management coming in I think that will change however it will change unless the team is lucky enough to make / win the WS. In which case, I'll take the run for what it's worth.

 

Beyond the injuries, they did include a likely change in organizational philosophy as well. At the beginning of '03, I think they were just trying to get this team some experience to make their run in '05 and beyond. Obviously, the window of opportunity opened quicker than anyone had imagined before the season started.

 

But, I don't see a change in philosophy occuring if the Cubs make the playoffs and have any success unlike '03 into '04.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

Aside from the "blah blah anything can happen blah 2006 Cardinals blah blah" reasons....

 

....do we really want this team to make the post season? do we want anyone in the new ownership, the front office, the media, etc. thinking this team is doing anything right? do we want this insanely mediocre team to be be rewarded in any way, shape or form?

 

this isn't sour grapes. i just don't know what we accomplish by making the playoffs. outside of an outright WS victory, it just seems useless.

 

If you don't want this team to make the playoffs then you are not a fan.

 

Why, exactly, is that? I happen to agree with Derwood's point of view, and I still consider myself a fan. Derwood's point is that he, like me, is sick and tired of this 1 decent year ever 4 or 5 with a load of utter crap marketed as a baseball team in the years between. Sure, 98 and 03 were boatloads of fun, but because of those years this franchise has never entered into rebuilding mode. Because the Cubs have never methodically rebuilt, the franchise hasn't fielded a great team in a long time. They have occasionally put decent teams on the field, but great teams win championships a lot more often than pretty decent ones do.

 

In the last 20 years, the following NL teams have not managed a season of 95 wins:

Rockies

Marlins

Brewers

Cubs

 

In fact, we've only won as many as 95 games once (1984) in the last 60 years. If you don't have a good foundation, the playoff years are going to be few and far between.

 

Let me as you, are you a fan of the 2007 Cubs or the Cubs organization?

 

It seems lately the theme for WS Champions has been get in the playoffs and anyone has a chance. This isn't like the NFL were inferior teams are usually eliminated in the first round. IF the Cubs make the playoffs they have a legit chance at a World Series.

[Banedon]

There's no guarantee that NOT making the playoffs will result in an outcome any different than if they did. So I say playoffs = good. Not in playoffs = bad.