Bruce Levine reports: Eric Patterson will be recalled

[bsucubsfan]

i think the reason epat got the call was becasue pie had a leg issue about a week and a half ago. he left the game in the 4th inning of a game. probably didn't wanna have him get out of his routine of getting 100%.

[oldcubsfan]

A second baseman playing centerfield?? I like E-Pat and I think he can do well in the majors, but not in the outfield. Anyone who thinks that a career 2B/IF who has played only a handful of minor league games in the outfield is suddenly going to provide the Cubs solid defense at a premium defensive position is out of their flippin' mind.

 

This is a bad decision. Pie needs to be up playing in center regardless of his lack of hitting. That outfield as it stands is a disaster waiting to happen defensively.

 

Dude, what I said might be absured to you.. but the Murton part is the absolute truth "dude"

 

Maybe you can work a trade for him, because his future in Chicago is very limited.

[oldcubsfan]

Murton is the right handed version of Ben Grieve and Lou hated Grieve in Tampa. Not his style of ballplayer.

 

My goodness, that's an awful comparison.

 

Why? they are the same type of player-passive, non run producing for a production position and mediocre defensively. You may like that type, but Lou doesn't. I'm not saying either opinion is right or wrong, but they are very similiar.

 

That's so vague it's not even worth making a comparison, even if you include the cliched terms used(what is passive?).

You're a big numbers guy, go look up a comparsion.

[jersey cubs fan]

A second baseman playing centerfield?? I like E-Pat and I think he can do well in the majors, but not in the outfield. Anyone who thinks that a career 2B/IF who has played only a handful of minor league games in the outfield is suddenly going to provide the Cubs solid defense at a premium defensive position is out of their flippin' mind.

 

This is a bad decision. Pie needs to be up playing in center regardless of his lack of hitting. That outfield as it stands is a disaster waiting to happen defensively.

 

Dude, what I said might be absured to you.. but the Murton part is the absolute truth "dude"

 

Maybe you can work a trade for him, because his future in Chicago is very limited.

 

True. Unfortunate and unjustified, but most likely true.

[inari]

I'm not sure where to post this, but we're talking about Bruce Levine in here, so...

 

Bruce Levine reports Zambranos agent offered a $38M,4 year deal last and the cubs said no.

 

I assume that's just a lie. Right? I saw it on another board and just about bit my tongue off.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Murton is the right handed version of Ben Grieve and Lou hated Grieve in Tampa. Not his style of ballplayer.

 

My goodness, that's an awful comparison.

 

Why? they are the same type of player-passive, non run producing for a production position and mediocre defensively. You may like that type, but Lou doesn't. I'm not saying either opinion is right or wrong, but they are very similiar.

 

That's so vague it's not even worth making a comparison, even if you include the cliched terms used(what is passive?).

 

vague comparisons are better than no comparisons, which is what you have given. Grieve, after a similar amount of PAs as Murton currently has, had slightly better walk rate and slightly better power (albeit at a younger age). Murton has a little more speed and defensive ability. the comparison might not be exact, but their skill sets and short comings are very similar.

 

and even if they weren't, outright statements without explanation, argument or analysis like the two you have made in this discussion suck.

 

Outright statements without explanation, argument, or analysis? That sounds like saying Murton is a RH Ben Grieve and then not elaborating or responding with vague, subjective statements.

 

Murton makes contact more often(lower K rate) and better contact more often(better AVG). Grieve was three true outcomes to the extreme, he saw more pitches, struck out more often, and hit more home runs.

 

On the other hand, this comparison to Grieve is supposed to be a negative one, while anyone would want what Grieve put up his first 3 seasons in the league out of Murton, or anyone in our outfield for that matter.

[oldcubsfan]

A second baseman playing centerfield?? I like E-Pat and I think he can do well in the majors, but not in the outfield. Anyone who thinks that a career 2B/IF who has played only a handful of minor league games in the outfield is suddenly going to provide the Cubs solid defense at a premium defensive position is out of their flippin' mind.

 

This is a bad decision. Pie needs to be up playing in center regardless of his lack of hitting. That outfield as it stands is a disaster waiting to happen defensively.

 

Dude, what I said might be absured to you.. but the Murton part is the absolute truth "dude"

 

Maybe you can work a trade for him, because his future in Chicago is very limited.

 

True. Unfortunate and unjustified, but most likely true.

I do appreciate your imput, but why is it unjustified? I know there is a huge debate in the organization about Murton's value, what do you think his real value is? Thanks for your time!

[Rob]

A second baseman playing centerfield?? I like E-Pat and I think he can do well in the majors, but not in the outfield. Anyone who thinks that a career 2B/IF who has played only a handful of minor league games in the outfield is suddenly going to provide the Cubs solid defense at a premium defensive position is out of their flippin' mind.

 

This is a bad decision. Pie needs to be up playing in center regardless of his lack of hitting. That outfield as it stands is a disaster waiting to happen defensively.

 

Dude, what I said might be absured to you.. but the Murton part is the absolute truth "dude"

 

Maybe you can work a trade for him, because his future in Chicago is very limited.

 

True. Unfortunate and unjustified, but most likely true.

I do appreciate your imput, but why is it unjustified? I know there is a huge debate in the organization about Murton's value, what do you think his real value is? Thanks for your time!

 

Well, his line from the 2nd half of last season is better than the line Soriano put up the first half of this one... so I'd say he could be quite valuable.

[jersey cubs fan]

A second baseman playing centerfield?? I like E-Pat and I think he can do well in the majors, but not in the outfield. Anyone who thinks that a career 2B/IF who has played only a handful of minor league games in the outfield is suddenly going to provide the Cubs solid defense at a premium defensive position is out of their flippin' mind.

 

This is a bad decision. Pie needs to be up playing in center regardless of his lack of hitting. That outfield as it stands is a disaster waiting to happen defensively.

 

Dude, what I said might be absured to you.. but the Murton part is the absolute truth "dude"

 

Maybe you can work a trade for him, because his future in Chicago is very limited.

 

True. Unfortunate and unjustified, but most likely true.

I do appreciate your imput, but why is it unjustified? I know there is a huge debate in the organization about Murton's value, what do you think his real value is? Thanks for your time!

 

His value is that he's an inexpensive player under team control for many years who is likely to produce solid numbers right now. And given some time, he has the ability to move beyond just solid to very good.

 

Those assets are treasured by most teams, whereas the Cubs seem to prefer mediocre expensive veterans who do no better, and often worse, for a hell of a lot more money. That leads to roster/payroll inefficiencies, and ultimately, too few wins at the end of the season for the dollars spent.

[oldcubsfan]

Murton is the right handed version of Ben Grieve and Lou hated Grieve in Tampa. Not his style of ballplayer.

 

My goodness, that's an awful comparison.

 

Why? they are the same type of player-passive, non run producing for a production position and mediocre defensively. You may like that type, but Lou doesn't. I'm not saying either opinion is right or wrong, but they are very similiar.

 

That's so vague it's not even worth making a comparison, even if you include the cliched terms used(what is passive?).

 

vague comparisons are better than no comparisons, which is what you have given. Grieve, after a similar amount of PAs as Murton currently has, had slightly better walk rate and slightly better power (albeit at a younger age). Murton has a little more speed and defensive ability. the comparison might not be exact, but their skill sets and short comings are very similar.

 

and even if they weren't, outright statements without explanation, argument or analysis like the two you have made in this discussion suck.

 

Outright statements without explanation, argument, or analysis? That sounds like saying Murton is a RH Ben Grieve and then not elaborating or responding with vague, subjective statements.

 

Murton makes contact more often(lower K rate) and better contact more often(better AVG). Grieve was three true outcomes to the extreme, he saw more pitches, struck out more often, and hit more home runs.

 

On the other hand, this comparison to Grieve is supposed to be a negative one, while anyone would want what Grieve put up his first 3 seasons in the league out of Murton, or anyone in our outfield for that matter.

 

The comparision is meant to show why he isn't playing. Lou has had both and sees the similiarity and doesn't happen to like that kind of player. It is very simple.

[Brian]

I'm not sure where to post this, but we're talking about Bruce Levine in here, so...

 

Bruce Levine reports Zambranos agent offered a $38M,4 year deal last and the cubs said no.

 

I assume that's just a lie. Right? I saw it on another board and just about bit my tongue off.

 

If that's not wrong, the entire cubs front office and tribune company should punch in the face.

 

that's 9.5 million a year, that's highway robbery.

[jjgman21]

Murton is the right handed version of Ben Grieve and Lou hated Grieve in Tampa. Not his style of ballplayer.

 

My goodness, that's an awful comparison.

 

Why? they are the same type of player-passive, non run producing for a production position and mediocre defensively. You may like that type, but Lou doesn't. I'm not saying either opinion is right or wrong, but they are very similiar.

 

That's so vague it's not even worth making a comparison, even if you include the cliched terms used(what is passive?).

 

vague comparisons are better than no comparisons, which is what you have given. Grieve, after a similar amount of PAs as Murton currently has, had slightly better walk rate and slightly better power (albeit at a younger age). Murton has a little more speed and defensive ability. the comparison might not be exact, but their skill sets and short comings are very similar.

 

and even if they weren't, outright statements without explanation, argument or analysis like the two you have made in this discussion suck.

 

Outright statements without explanation, argument, or analysis? That sounds like saying Murton is a RH Ben Grieve and then not elaborating or responding with vague, subjective statements.

 

Murton makes contact more often(lower K rate) and better contact more often(better AVG). Grieve was three true outcomes to the extreme, he saw more pitches, struck out more often, and hit more home runs.

 

On the other hand, this comparison to Grieve is supposed to be a negative one, while anyone would want what Grieve put up his first 3 seasons in the league out of Murton, or anyone in our outfield for that matter.

 

fine, outright disputes of assertions without explanation, argument or analysis suck, more so than outright assertions without....

 

the assertion that he was three true outcome 'to the extreme' is just plain wrong, unless by 'to the extreme' you mean 'on the verge of being able to be catagorized as a three true outcome player.' Grieve walked a little more and struck out a little more. that's about the extent of their difference through their first two years in the majors. every other description you gave at to why they are different is pretty much wrong

 

you look at what both did their first two years in the league (which IMO is the fair way to go about it since Murton's been jerked around this year) and their stats stack up like this

 

AB/H/2B/3B/HR/BB/K

 

676/197/47/2/21/98/148

595/175/25/2/20/61/84

 

extrapolate Murtons stats out to having the same number of PAs, his numbers would be

 

702/206/30/2/27/72/99

 

let's put Grieves number back up to make the comparison easy on the eyes

 

676/197/47/2/21/98/148

702/206/30/2/27/72/99

 

pretty damn similar hitters.

[98navigator]

I'm not sure where to post this, but we're talking about Bruce Levine in here, so...

 

Bruce Levine reports Zambranos agent offered a $38M,4 year deal last and the cubs said no.

 

I assume that's just a lie. Right? I saw it on another board and just about bit my tongue off.

 

If that's not wrong, the entire cubs front office and tribune company should punch in the face.

 

that's 9.5 million a year, that's highway robbery.

 

He's making 12.5 or so million this year so I think that's bogus.

[oldcubsfan]

If true, just stupid.

[soapy]

Len stating that Patterson is likely to play LF tomorrow night. This whole thing is just odd. Is Floyd going to continue to play in RF (platooning with DeRosa) while Patterson platoons with Murton in LF?

[kylescubs23]

So we are going to running 3 platoon out there everyday...LF, RF, and 2B. Actually I guess 4 if you count CF. Wow the mark of a division winner there. Hopefully Marshall and Hill can turn it on and DLee and Rammy get extremely hot. There is no hope for Marquis

[CubinNY]

Len stating that Patterson is likely to play LF tomorrow night. This whole thing is just odd. Is Floyd going to continue to play in RF (platooning with DeRosa) while Patterson platoons with Murton in LF?

Under Hendry, the Cubs are a stupidly run organization.

 

I have to think Lou is behind this. I also have to think that Murton is in the "never get out" dog house with Lou because he had the termity to question Lou's judgment and baseball acumen just before he was sent down.

 

It' like goony wrote. It's sad and shameful, but it's the Cubs.

 

Bringing up Patterson (the inferior prospect) over Pie when the Cubs are supposed to be in a pennant race is just plain stupid. Which brings me back to my first sentence.

 

I, for one can't wait to find out who the new owner is going to be. I've about had it with Hendry and the Tribune.

[oldcubsfan]

A second baseman playing centerfield?? I like E-Pat and I think he can do well in the majors, but not in the outfield. Anyone who thinks that a career 2B/IF who has played only a handful of minor league games in the outfield is suddenly going to provide the Cubs solid defense at a premium defensive position is out of their flippin' mind.

 

This is a bad decision. Pie needs to be up playing in center regardless of his lack of hitting. That outfield as it stands is a disaster waiting to happen defensively.

 

Dude, what I said might be absured to you.. but the Murton part is the absolute truth "dude"

 

Maybe you can work a trade for him, because his future in Chicago is very limited.

 

True. Unfortunate and unjustified, but most likely true.

I do appreciate your imput, but why is it unjustified? I know there is a huge debate in the organization about Murton's value, what do you think his real value is? Thanks for your time!

 

His value is that he's an inexpensive player under team control for many years who is likely to produce solid numbers right now. And given some time, he has the ability to move beyond just solid to very good.

 

Those assets are treasured by most teams, whereas the Cubs seem to prefer mediocre expensive veterans who do no better, and often worse, for a hell of a lot more money. That leads to roster/payroll inefficiencies, and ultimately, too few wins at the end of the season for the dollars spent.

Then you should trade him to the teams that over value a mediocre outfielder who is cheap.

[oldcubsfan]

Len stating that Patterson is likely to play LF tomorrow night. This whole thing is just odd. Is Floyd going to continue to play in RF (platooning with DeRosa) while Patterson platoons with Murton in LF?

Under Hendry, the Cubs are a stupidly run organization.

 

I have to think Lou is behind this. I also have to think that Murton is in the "never get out" dog house with Lou because he had the termity to question Lou's judgment and baseball acumen just before he was sent down.

 

It' like goony wrote. It's sad and shameful, but it's the Cubs.

 

Bringing up Patterson (the inferior prospect) over Pie when the Cubs are supposed to be in a pennant race is just plain stupid. Which brings me back to my first sentence.

 

I, for one can't wait to find out who the new owner is going to be. I've about had it with Hendry and the Tribune.

 

Lou's baseball acumen far exceeds Murton's talents.

[UK1679666180]

Then you should trade him to the teams that over value a mediocre outfielder who is cheap.

 

While I consider Murton to be a subpar corner OF'er in the grand scheme of things, for the Cubs to get anything of value for him they also have to show they value his assets.

 

If the Cubs treat him as a spare part, more than likely he be traded as one and given a chance to surpass those expectatioons by the team trading for him.

 

Given the potential options right now in LF during Soriano's stint on the DL, I see no reason why he shouldn't play everyday which is more of an indictment of potential options rather than Murton's ability.

Edited August 7, 2007 by UK

[E.J.]

I just enjoy the fact that we keep trying to fix our outfield problem by bringing up 2b.

[RammyFanny]

I just enjoy the fact that we keep trying to fix our outfield problem by bringing up 2b.

 

You know he's been playing some outfield (and I remember an article about 2+ months back about him spending time after games practicing center and left) and by all accounts has played good there, so it's not like he's a outfield virgin.

[E.J.]

I just enjoy the fact that we keep trying to fix our outfield problem by bringing up 2b.

 

You know he's been playing some outfield (and I remember an article about 2+ months back about him spending time after games practicing center and left) and by all accounts has played good there, so it's not like he's a outfield virgin.

 

I understand that, but he's still a 2b and has much more value at 2b than he does in LF. It's just sad that we don't just play Murton, and that for some reason the Cubs feel Epatt is the best option from the minors to play LF.

[gflore34]

I know hindsight is 20/20 but, given the Cubs have gotten next to nothing from CF, how bad would it have been to have left Pie in CF? Their record would quite probably be the same and I'm fairly certain Pie would have begun to make adjstments and improving at this point. Thereby, taking care of the CF question.

[Warpticon]

maybe when Soriano comes back we can keep Patterson in CF and DeRosa in RF to have the "all second basemen outfield" ©

 

:lol: I want this to happen.