It's ok to stand pat

[Skyballer]

It's not okay to stand pat. The Cubs aren't a very good club once over performers return to their true level. For the most part a lot of guys are overachieving. The only guys who aren't are stuck between just two positions.

:?: What does that mean :?:

[mul21]

It's not okay to stand pat. The Cubs aren't a very good club once over performers return to their true level. For the most part a lot of guys are overachieving. The only guys who aren't are stuck between just two positions.

:?: What does that mean :?:

 

Pretty sure he's talking about Lee and Aram at 1st and 3rd.

[Mephistopheles]

It's not okay to stand pat. The Cubs aren't a very good club once over performers return to their true level. For the most part a lot of guys are overachieving. The only guys who aren't are stuck between just two positions.

:?: What does that mean :?:

 

Pretty sure he's talking about Lee and Aram at 1st and 3rd.

 

This isn't true. Ramirez is having arguably the best season of his career and Lee is having by far the second best season of his career. The two of them aren't playing significantly over their true level, but they are playing over it. Marquis is playing significantly over his. I was talking about Jones and Murton.

[Drew Doughty]

i don't see how ramirez is playing over his true level. his average is up a tiny bit (maybe), but his ISOD and ISOP are both either at similar levels or lower than previous career norms.

[KingCubsFan]

It's not okay to stand pat. The Cubs aren't a very good club once over performers return to their true level. For the most part a lot of guys are overachieving. The only guys who aren't are stuck between just two positions.

:?: What does that mean :?:

People keep saying this, but who really is overachieving besides Fontenot? You can't say Marquis because he's been terrible ever since we've been on this streak. Marshall might be overachieving, but at this point he's had enough success where you have to wonder if this isn't a fluke anymore.

[Mephistopheles]

He's having an excellent year defensively by almost every metric you go by. Even if he's this good, which is fine. My point still stands. The Cubs are having a lot of players playing over their heads. A lot more than most teams.

[Drew Doughty]

He's having an excellent year defensively by almost every metric you go by. Even if he's this good, which is fine. My point still stands. The Cubs are having a lot of players playing over their heads. A lot more than most teams.

 

i disagree. derosa probably is a little bit. lee obviously is, but he finally started hitting for power, so hopefully the dip in average that he's due to suffer will be mitigated a little bit. fontenot has sucked for a solid month. i doubt cedeno is a 400 OPS guy or whatever crappy line he has right now. jones and murton are well below expectations. floyd is probably below or at expectations. kendall obviously has been below career norms so far.

 

zambrano is crazy good right now, and obviously he's not going to allow 4.5 H/9 the rest of the season (like he did this month), but he'll still be very good the rest of the way in all likelihood. marquis...bleh, he's been bad for a while, so I don't think he's overachieving, necessarily. Lilly might be overachieving a little bit, but he's not way off the mark. Hill has been up and down, pretty much right on expectations i think. Marshall is the only one that might be due for a significant regression, but it's not like he's getting by on an unusually low babip or an abnormally high LOB% or something like that.

[Mephistopheles]

Overs:

Ryan Theriot

Mark DeRosa

Derrek Lee

Angel Pagan

Aramis Ramirez

Mike Fontenot

Ted Lilly

Jason Marquis

Sean Marshall

Carlos Marmol (Although he may be this good)

 

 

Right At:

Alfonso Soriano

All the catchers: they suck and thats expected

Rich Hill (Hill may be overproducing depending on who you ask)

Carlos Zambrano

Bob Howry

Ryan Dempster

Michael Wuertz

 

 

Below:

Matt Murton

Cliff Floyd

Jacque Jones

Scott Eyre

[Keener98]

Angel Pagans numbers are pretty much identical to his career numbers, Arams numbers are below his last 2 years, and Marquis's numbers may show hes overperforming, but thats highly inflated because of his start to the season.

[Bruno7481]

I don't quite get the beef some have with Pagan. He's a bench player, role player, 5th outfelder, however you want to put it. Teams don't typically have all-stars manning those positions. He's been fine in that role.

 

Just wanted to throw that out there. It's not so much in repsonse to this thread specifically, but just a reaction to some of the comments about Pagan I have seen in various threads.

[brinoch]

I don't quite get the beef some have with Pagan. He's a bench player, role player, 5th outfelder, however you want to put it. Teams don't typically have all-stars manning those positions. He's been fine in that role.

 

Just wanted to throw that out there. It's not so much in repsonse to this thread specifically, but just a reaction to some of the comments about Pagan I have seen in various threads.

 

Except that he's not playing as a role-player. He's platooning with Jones in CF and getting a bunch of time in RF, which is a role he isn't suited for. 25th man? Fine. Platoon partner? Not fine.

[Bruno7481]

I don't quite get the beef some have with Pagan. He's a bench player, role player, 5th outfelder, however you want to put it. Teams don't typically have all-stars manning those positions. He's been fine in that role.

 

Just wanted to throw that out there. It's not so much in repsonse to this thread specifically, but just a reaction to some of the comments about Pagan I have seen in various threads.

 

Except that he's not playing as a role-player. He's platooning with Jones in CF and getting a bunch of time in RF, which is a role he isn't suited for. 25th man? Fine. Platoon partner? Not fine.

 

Well, I'd argue that he's better suited in CF against a LH than Jones. I see your point, but I don't think he's playing THAT much.

[brinoch]

I don't quite get the beef some have with Pagan. He's a bench player, role player, 5th outfelder, however you want to put it. Teams don't typically have all-stars manning those positions. He's been fine in that role.

 

Just wanted to throw that out there. It's not so much in repsonse to this thread specifically, but just a reaction to some of the comments about Pagan I have seen in various threads.

 

Except that he's not playing as a role-player. He's platooning with Jones in CF and getting a bunch of time in RF, which is a role he isn't suited for. 25th man? Fine. Platoon partner? Not fine.

 

Well, I'd argue that he's better suited in CF against a LH than Jones. I see your point, but I don't think he's playing THAT much.

 

He is better suited than Jones against RH's, certainly. Of course, that's not saying much.

[Mephistopheles]

Angel Pagans numbers are pretty much identical to his career numbers, Arams numbers are below his last 2 years, and Marquis's numbers may show hes overperforming, but thats highly inflated because of his start to the season.

 

pagans not a league average hitter. hes much worse. marquis is overperforming overall and youve agreed with that. ive addressed aramis

[Rob]

I'd say Howry is underperforming a tad, but with relievers being so volitile, I don't see much of a problem with the list.

[CubColtPacer]

I don't quite get the beef some have with Pagan. He's a bench player, role player, 5th outfelder, however you want to put it. Teams don't typically have all-stars manning those positions. He's been fine in that role.

 

Just wanted to throw that out there. It's not so much in repsonse to this thread specifically, but just a reaction to some of the comments about Pagan I have seen in various threads.

 

Except that he's not playing as a role-player. He's platooning with Jones in CF and getting a bunch of time in RF, which is a role he isn't suited for. 25th man? Fine. Platoon partner? Not fine.

 

Pagan has had 137 at-bats this year. There are 125 outfielders in the major leagues who have had at least 125 plate appearances so far this year. Of those, Pagan is 49th on that list. So he's outperformed half the starters (probably more because some on the list before him are probably bench players as well).

 

Now, to be fair, for the amount of at-bats Pagan last year, he ranked 111th out of 133. So his production last year would put him on the edge of 25th man status (although more of a 5th OF than 25th man) this year's production is a pretty good platoon player.

 

Pagan is a player who has become somewhat useful to a major league ballclub because of his power development. He had 4 home runs combined his first 4 years in the minors. Then, his 5th year, he hit 4. The year after that, he hit 8. Last year he hit 5 in only 1/3 of the at-bats he would normally get. This year he's already got 7 combined.

 

His development of power from a 0-1 home run guy to a 15 home run guy with full-time play has made him a legitimate backup option. That's the main reason his numbers are up this year-because his SLG has continued to increase.

[Soul]

Just like to point out the title of this thread and disagree wholeheartedly.

 

That is all.

[Magnetic Curses]

Just like to point out the title of this thread and disagree wholeheartedly.

 

That is all.

 

there's nothing hendry can do. he obviously cannot add any payroll, he can't even get the z deal done. this whole sale business sucks and it's happening at the absolute worst time.

 

if we end up not re-upping z, plus not making the playoffs after not being able to add payroll, upsetting is going to be a kind word to describe it. if that in fact happens, we better have a huge bat in right and another above average starter to replace him. unlikely.

 

there's no reason we wouldn't be able to afford z, anyway, if we start pie, soto, theriot, hill, and marshall--that's 5 cheap major contributors that shopld even allow the new ownership to get someone out in right who can play a little bit.

[Soul]

Just like to point out the title of this thread and disagree wholeheartedly.

 

That is all.

 

there's nothing hendry can do. he obviously cannot add any payroll, he can't even get the z deal done. this whole sale business sucks and it's happening at the absolute worst time.

 

if we end up not re-upping z, plus not making the playoffs after not being able to add payroll, upsetting is going to be a kind word to describe it. if that in fact happens, we better have a huge bat in right and another above average starter to replace him. unlikely.

 

there's no reason we wouldn't be able to afford z, anyway, if we start pie, soto, theriot, hill, and marshall--that's 5 cheap major contributors that shopld even allow the new ownership to get someone out in right who can play a little bit.

 

I fear the timing on Z is what will kill us. The sale won't be finalized until what, November? I think Z could be long gone by then right? Even if not, I would think new ownership would need some time to get situated. I fully expect the Yanks to roll a semi truck full of $50 bills up to Z's house immediately after the season ends.

[Magnetic Curses]

Just like to point out the title of this thread and disagree wholeheartedly.

 

That is all.

 

there's nothing hendry can do. he obviously cannot add any payroll, he can't even get the z deal done. this whole sale business sucks and it's happening at the absolute worst time.

 

if we end up not re-upping z, plus not making the playoffs after not being able to add payroll, upsetting is going to be a kind word to describe it. if that in fact happens, we better have a huge bat in right and another above average starter to replace him. unlikely.

 

there's no reason we wouldn't be able to afford z, anyway, if we start pie, soto, theriot, hill, and marshall--that's 5 cheap major contributors that shopld even allow the new ownership to get someone out in right who can play a little bit.

 

I fear the timing on Z is what will kill us. The sale won't be finalized until what, November? I think Z could be long gone by then right? I fully expect the Yanks to roll a semi truck full of $50 bills up to his house immediately after the season ends.

 

the sale should be done by october, as zell closes on nov. 1st, by then, iirc, the cubs must be sold.

 

hopefully, with all of the potential suitors, there is no feet-dragging. there should be NO excuse for not selling the cubs by nov.

[soccer10k]

There's no way ARam is overproducing right now. His OPS is right at where it was last year and down a bit from 04 and 05. Like somebody else said, Fontenot has sucked the past month with a .211/.269/.211/.481 line in July. He was way overproducing in June but has been underproducing in July. Ted Lilly might be overproducing but not by much. Not only did he go from the AL to the NL (which makes it easier because you face the pitcher) but he went from having to face the Yankees and the Red Sox 38 times to the weakest division in baseball.

[Soul]

It's OK to stand pat, eh?

[Sweet Swinging Billy]

I agree with Soul's last post. I understand the possible financial constraints with the team and trying to give the players a boost of confidence in saying we are good enough to win with what we got... but you also show the players and the fans that you believe enough in the team to go out a acquire a player or two, that is going to make you better. Other than Z and Lilly, I have no confidence in our starting pitching and I sure the heck have lost all faith in our bullpen.

[NewUserName]

It's OK to stand pat, eh?

 

 

If Lou would pencil Murton in the lineup everyday with Soriano out he will produce enough to offset Soriano's loss.

[UMFan83]

It's OK to stand pat, eh?

 

 

If Lou would pencil Murton in the lineup everyday with Soriano out he will produce enough to offset Soriano's loss.

 

Based on numbers from a down season by Soriano and a statistical stretch of mostly meaningless games (from a team standpoint) over 2.5 months by Murton.

 

However, I do agree Murton should be the starter here, I am just in a gloomy mood and feel like trying to beat down everyone's arguments.