It's ok to stand pat

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Wait, why is the waiting room thread locked? There was some good debate going on in there..

 

See truffles post regarding 95% of the board having their period at the same time. Funny and true.

 

:lol:

 

Hah... I figured it was dkwg's attempt to call me out. Doesn't really bother me.

 

 

Truffle's right, though.

 

Wow, it really is obsession. I hope you wear a monitoring bracelet. Leave me alone.

[weis21]

yeah, except the fact that milwaukee doesn't have the resources to re-sign all of those young players when they are still in their prime. so in a way, their window is just as small as ours(maybe smaller depending on how big a checkbook the new owner has).

[Abe Frohman]

What do you mean "nobody did anything?"

 

The Braves, Mets, and Phillies are better teams, and quite possibly teams that the Cubs will have to contend with for the Wild Card.

 

One team in our league did something meaningful. That qualifies as almost no action.

 

The way I see it (and the way it is) any team in the NL can win the NL Wild Card. Doesn't really matter which Division the team is in - making them competition to the Cubs.

 

There is a VERY strong chance that the WC can come out of the NL East - in which three teams improved.

[TruffleShuffle]

It's one thing for an up and coming team like Milwaukee to stand pat. Their future is bright and secure; their core is all pre prime and cheap.

 

Our core is in the middle-end of their primes. We're an older, expensive team. We have no reason to play for 2009. If it took dealing Pie or Holliman, or whatever, to get an impact player, or if it required Hendry get creative, so be it. 99 years is enough time to wait.

 

If we're older and expensive, then we're trading good young talent to improve the team. That basically gives this team a one-year window to win a championship, and oh by the way there are a lot of other really good teams (a.k.a. American League) who we'd have to beat to win. If you don't do it, you've got an old team with no major-league ready prospects and you've just thrown a few more years into the crapper.

[David]

Wait, why is the waiting room thread locked? There was some good debate going on in there..

 

See truffles post regarding 95% of the board having their period at the same time. Funny and true.

 

:lol:

 

Hah... I figured it was dkwg's attempt to call me out. Doesn't really bother me.

 

 

Truffle's right, though.

 

Wow, it really is obsession. I hope you wear a monitoring bracelet. Leave me alone.

 

Right.

 

Anyways.

[OleMissCub]

Wait, why is the waiting room thread locked? There was some good debate going on in there..

 

See truffles post regarding 95% of the board having their period at the same time. Funny and true.

 

:lol:

 

Hah... I figured it was dkwg's attempt to call me out. Doesn't really bother me.

 

 

Truffle's right, though.

 

Wow, it really is obsession. I hope you wear a monitoring bracelet. Leave me alone.

 

http://www.gifflix.com/data/media/81/3yeah8lh.jpg

[weis21]

why I oughta.....!

 

 

 

:x

[badger1679666666]

bears repeating.

 

IB4L version 2.0

[Bote McBoteface]

while several teams improved themselves before the deadline the cubs only made themselves worse by taking on a a worse catcher and making no other moves at all. At least its Milwaukee that will win the division not the cardinals.

 

 

That seriously is the most ignorant statement ever. How did Milwaukee get better, Scott Linebrink?

 

Have you forgotten that we have been consistently gaining on them for 2 months? My God.

 

I am fairly certain they are still ahead of us even with there best pitcher on the dl. When he gets back there lead will go up again.

 

They are a game ahead of us. Not long ago it was 8.5 games ahead of us. Notice a trend here? A middle reliever will not stop that trend from continuing. The Brewers are a horrible baseball team away from their home park. They are not a playoff calibur team, and a middle reliever won't help that, especially since any good he does for the team will be washed away when Cordero blows it for them.

[weis21]

some guy (levine maybe) said on ESPN1000 that the cubs were still interested in trading for church possibly through the waiver wire...not sure how much truth is there.

 

could they really do that? couldn't somebody block them pretty easily?

[ConstableRabbit]

It's one thing for an up and coming team like Milwaukee to stand pat. Their future is bright and secure; their core is all pre prime and cheap.

 

Our core is in the middle-end of their primes. We're an older, expensive team. We have no reason to play for 2009. If it took dealing Pie or Holliman, or whatever, to get an impact player, or if it required Hendry get creative, so be it. 99 years is enough time to wait.

 

If we're older and expensive, then we're trading good young talent to improve the team. That basically gives this team a one-year window to win a championship, and oh by the way there are a lot of other really good teams (a.k.a. American League) who we'd have to beat to win. If you don't do it, you've got an old team with no major-league ready prospects and you've just thrown a few more years into the crapper.

 

Right. The playoffs are such a crapshoot too. Why not just make a team good enough to get into the playoffs for the next 3 years? We'd have a much better chance of winning that way then putting all of our eggs in one basket, imo.

[TruffleShuffle]

everybody stop being idiots and getting every "random cubs/trade discussion" thread locked

[jersey cubs fan]

Let's remember this is only the non-waiver trade deadline.

 

 

Somebody else wrote this in the other thread.

 

There's nothing to stop us from making a waiver deal. It just means that the asking price is even lower.

 

There is something to stop us, it's called the waiver process.

 

 

It's far more difficult to get anything good done in the waiver period. When was the last significant move made? Sure, Cubs/Mets made that "big" six man One Dog/Brian McRae deal a long time ago, but you were talking about a couple of also ran teams exchanging roster filler. I'm not going to say it won't happen, or it never has happened, but the odds that the Cubs can acquire anything that solves one of their 4 big holes during the waiver period are very slim.

 

 

My opinion is this was a pretty good team, nowhere near great, but pretty good, with several glaring holes that could and should have been filled (yes, they could and should have been filled a long time ago, but Hendry's past failures can't be use to defend his current ones).

 

I'm all about increasing your chances for success. That means creating the best damn team possible. Hendry has never come close to doing that, despite a tremendous amount of payroll throughout his tenure. Failure to acquire something big does not guarantee failure to win the Central, but it does mean they didn't improve their chances. And if you aren't improving your chances you aren't doing your job as a GM.

[David]

some guy (levine maybe) said on ESPN1000 that the cubs were still interested in trading for church possibly through the waiver wire...not sure how much truth is there.

 

could they really do that? couldn't somebody block them pretty easily?

 

It's hard to see Church making it through the waiver wire...but anything can happen, I guess.

[ConstableRabbit]

everybody stop being idiots and getting every "random cubs/trade discussion" thread locked

 

Please, don't attack the poster(s) :lol:

[TruffleShuffle]

while several teams improved themselves before the deadline the cubs only made themselves worse by taking on a a worse catcher and making no other moves at all. At least its Milwaukee that will win the division not the cardinals.

 

 

That seriously is the most ignorant statement ever. How did Milwaukee get better, Scott Linebrink?

 

Have you forgotten that we have been consistently gaining on them for 2 months? My God.

 

I am fairly certain they are still ahead of us even with there best pitcher on the dl. When he gets back there lead will go up again.

 

They are a game ahead of us. Not long ago it was 8.5 games ahead of us. Notice a trend here? A middle reliever will not stop that trend from continuing. The Brewers are a horrible baseball team away from their home park. They are not a playoff caliber team, and a middle reliever won't help that, especially since any good he does for the team will be washed away when Cordero blows it for them.

 

I'd argue that this is more a circumstance of luck and strange chance than of any real road deficiency on their part. Same with their unusually good home record.

[David]

while several teams improved themselves before the deadline the cubs only made themselves worse by taking on a a worse catcher and making no other moves at all. At least its Milwaukee that will win the division not the cardinals.

 

 

That seriously is the most ignorant statement ever. How did Milwaukee get better, Scott Linebrink?

 

Have you forgotten that we have been consistently gaining on them for 2 months? My God.

 

I am fairly certain they are still ahead of us even with there best pitcher on the dl. When he gets back there lead will go up again.

 

They are a game ahead of us. Not long ago it was 8.5 games ahead of us. Notice a trend here? A middle reliever will not stop that trend from continuing. The Brewers are a horrible baseball team away from their home park. They are not a playoff caliber team, and a middle reliever won't help that, especially since any good he does for the team will be washed away when Cordero blows it for them.

 

 

Not that I don't agree about the Cubs being the better team at this point, but I do believe he was referring to Ben Sheets, not any middle reliever.

[cubweiser03]

Let's remember this is only the non-waiver trade deadline.

 

 

Somebody else wrote this in the other thread.

 

There's nothing to stop us from making a waiver deal. It just means that the asking price is even lower.

 

There is something to stop us, it's called the waiver process.

 

 

It's far more difficult to get anything good done in the waiver period. When was the last significant move made? Sure, Cubs/Mets made that "big" six man One Dog/Brian McRae deal a long time ago, but you were talking about a couple of also ran teams exchanging roster filler. I'm not going to say it won't happen, or it never has happened, but the odds that the Cubs can acquire anything that solves one of their 4 big holes during the waiver period are very slim.

 

...And since the Cubs will be in first place a deal will be harder because the crew will just block it :)

[JeffH]

And if you aren't improving your chances you aren't doing your job as a GM.

 

100% correct.

 

Even incremental improvements can help.

 

For heaven's sake, go get Matt Stairs! The Cubs need someone that has a non-trivial chance to hit a home run now and then.

[badger1679666666]

everybody stop being idiots and getting every "random cubs/trade discussion" thread locked

 

PERSONAL ATTACKS PERSONAL ATTACKS, my feelings are wounded!!!!!

 

(sarcasm).

Edited July 31, 2007 by badger

[jersey cubs fan]

It's one thing for an up and coming team like Milwaukee to stand pat. Their future is bright and secure; their core is all pre prime and cheap.

 

Our core is in the middle-end of their primes. We're an older, expensive team. We have no reason to play for 2009. If it took dealing Pie or Holliman, or whatever, to get an impact player, or if it required Hendry get creative, so be it. 99 years is enough time to wait.

 

If we're older and expensive, then we're trading good young talent to improve the team. That basically gives this team a one-year window to win a championship, and oh by the way there are a lot of other really good teams (a.k.a. American League) who we'd have to beat to win. If you don't do it, you've got an old team with no major-league ready prospects and you've just thrown a few more years into the crapper.

 

Right. The playoffs are such a crapshoot too. Why not just make a team good enough to get into the playoffs for the next 3 years? We'd have a much better chance of winning that way then putting all of our eggs in one basket, imo.

 

I think the playoffs crapshoot angle is overplayed. It's true that any team can get in. But it's still true that the better teams have a better chance of making it. I'd rather not just settle for trying to get in. I still think it's best to create the best team possible, regardless of division. Sure, the Cubs are lucky to have a relatively easy road to the playoffs, that doesn't mean they will definitely make it.

 

Plus, the whole "contend within the division" theory didn't really work out well under MacPhail. I don't believe in setting goals that low. Set them for the highest, build the best team you can, and then see how it plays out.

[E.J.]

Teams like Cincy and Washington drive me nuts. They both are terrible organizations and instead of unloading players that could net them some good prospects they sit on their hands and do nothing. I'm upset that it seems Hendry didn't get anything done, but I'd be furious if I were a fan of one of these teams.

[Bote McBoteface]

while several teams improved themselves before the deadline the cubs only made themselves worse by taking on a a worse catcher and making no other moves at all. At least its Milwaukee that will win the division not the cardinals.

 

 

That seriously is the most ignorant statement ever. How did Milwaukee get better, Scott Linebrink?

 

Have you forgotten that we have been consistently gaining on them for 2 months? My God.

 

I am fairly certain they are still ahead of us even with there best pitcher on the dl. When he gets back there lead will go up again.

 

They are a game ahead of us. Not long ago it was 8.5 games ahead of us. Notice a trend here? A middle reliever will not stop that trend from continuing. The Brewers are a horrible baseball team away from their home park. They are not a playoff caliber team, and a middle reliever won't help that, especially since any good he does for the team will be washed away when Cordero blows it for them.

 

 

Not that I don't agree about the Cubs being the better team at this point, but I do believe he was referring to Ben Sheets, not any middle reliever.

 

Hasn't Gallardo (sorry if that's misspelled) been pretty damn good for them in Sheets's place?

[jersey cubs fan]

Teams like Cincy and Washington drive me nuts. They both are terrible organizations and instead of unloading players that could net them some good prospects they sit on their hands and do nothing. I'm upset that it seems Hendry didn't get anything done, but I'd be furious if I were a fan of one of these teams.

 

that's true

[TruffleShuffle]

Plus, the whole "contend within the division" theory didn't really work out well under MacPhail. I don't believe in setting goals that low. Set them for the highest, build the best team you can, and then see how it plays out.

 

Right, but isn't the real deficiency in how the team was built before the season? At this point, if you're trying to build the best team you can - which means not just for now but also for the future - you don't go dealing off guys like Pie, Marmol, Patterson, Hill and Marshall for rentals whose contributions may be rather dubious (i.e., Dye). Given that the Cubs have some big contracts now (Lee, ARam, Soriano, Lilly, Marquis, possibly Zambrano), they're really going to need some young pre-arbitration talent to contribute between now and 2011.