The Official 2007 NBA Draft Thread

[The Voice of Reason]

Another more optimistic angle.

 

If the Bulls re-sign P.J. Brown, it gives them one of the deepest 4/5 groups in the league (Noah, Brown, Wallace and Thomas), and opens the door for them to move Wallace down the road if they want to use his contract to acquire a big-money guy (Kobe, KG, Pierce, whomever). I also thought the Bulls were a little too business-like last year. It killed them in the Detroit series. They have too many lead-by-example guys and stoic guys ... Noah solves that problem right away. Imagine the energy when Noah, Thomas, Deng, Gordon and Hinrich are on the floor.

 

You know what else is interesting? Noah would have been the first or second pick in last year's draft ... so basically, the Bulls ended up with two of the top three from the 2006 draft for the right not to pay Eddy Curry way too much money. Thank you, Isiah!

 

Would Spencer Hawes have been a better pick? Only time will tell.

[killthegoat06]

All of the analysis that I've read about the Bulls' draft only talks about Noah. What is the general opinion (link if possible) about the oaf and Curry?

[Keener98]

Another more optimistic angle.

 

If the Bulls re-sign P.J. Brown, it gives them one of the deepest 4/5 groups in the league (Noah, Brown, Wallace and Thomas), and opens the door for them to move Wallace down the road if they want to use his contract to acquire a big-money guy (Kobe, KG, Pierce, whomever). I also thought the Bulls were a little too business-like last year. It killed them in the Detroit series. They have too many lead-by-example guys and stoic guys ... Noah solves that problem right away. Imagine the energy when Noah, Thomas, Deng, Gordon and Hinrich are on the floor.

 

You know what else is interesting? Noah would have been the first or second pick in last year's draft ... so basically, the Bulls ended up with two of the top three from the 2006 draft for the right not to pay Eddy Curry way too much money. Thank you, Isiah!

 

Would Spencer Hawes have been a better pick? Only time will tell.

 

yea imagine not scoring a point with that lineup in the game, and Gordon is on his cold night, and Deng is being double teamed cause Noah cant score.

[Exile on Waveland]

Thats one guy who thinks that, and he may be right we dont know, but Im sure we could both find numerous people who feel differently.

It's more than a feeling. It's a statistical method that he outlines in that article and evaluates against previous drafts. You're welcome to your feelings on Noah. I'm more inclined to trust Paxson based on his track record and trust Hollinger based on his stats.

 

His statistical analysis in this regard is pure and utter crap. Refer to my earlier post -- or just the article itself -- to see the absurd rankings from past years. The rankings may have promise, but right now it's as raw as Yi.

 

That said, I think Noah was a good pick for the Bulls. Who else was there at #9? I would rank Julian Wright and maybe Nick Young ahead of Noah. But Noah will help more next season -- and he WILL help next season, do not think otherwise -- and, if the concern is redundancy, Wright is superfluous with Deng. Noah will not get abused down low like some think, he's stronger than he looks, he's long and very athletic. He's going to be a good shot blocker/rebounder, if not a great scorer. And Acie Law? Please.

[Chocolate Milk]

Another more optimistic angle.

 

If the Bulls re-sign P.J. Brown, it gives them one of the deepest 4/5 groups in the league (Noah, Brown, Wallace and Thomas), and opens the door for them to move Wallace down the road if they want to use his contract to acquire a big-money guy (Kobe, KG, Pierce, whomever). I also thought the Bulls were a little too business-like last year. It killed them in the Detroit series. They have too many lead-by-example guys and stoic guys ... Noah solves that problem right away. Imagine the energy when Noah, Thomas, Deng, Gordon and Hinrich are on the floor.

 

You know what else is interesting? Noah would have been the first or second pick in last year's draft ... so basically, the Bulls ended up with two of the top three from the 2006 draft for the right not to pay Eddy Curry way too much money. Thank you, Isiah!

 

Would Spencer Hawes have been a better pick? Only time will tell.

 

yea imagine not scoring a point with that lineup in the game, and Gordon is on his cold night, and Deng is being double teamed cause Noah cant score.

 

Not much different than last year's lineup. Noah is subbed for the offense force that is Ben Wallace and TT is subbed for Brown.

[Andy]

I hated the Noah pick at first (like Stephen A. said, we have a billion high-energy, rebound-first guys on this team, we didn't need another one), but I guess it was inevitable.

 

Aaron Gray is an absolute stiff to end all stiffs. He's terrible. I'm a die hard ND/Big East basketball fan and he's just terrible. My best friend and I made a game of counting how many times Aaron Gray got the ball in the Big East title game against G'town last year and screwed up in some way with it. I can't emphasize how much he sucks.

 

I liked the Curry pick, though - seems to fit a good 'instant offense' mold off the bench, which is a dimension we haven't had recently.

[Chocolate Milk]

I guess I don't get the Knicks trade. They got good value but don't they have essentially the same player as Randolph as Curry? Can you play them both together? I guess I don't get it.

[YearofDaCubs]

I guess I don't get the Knicks trade. They got good value but don't they have essentially the same player as Randolph as Curry? Can you play them both together? I guess I don't get it.

I was thinking the same thing. They both are players who want the ball inside to score. Another genius move by the best GM in all of sports.

[YearofDaCubs]

I don't know what to think about the Bulls draft. To be honest I didn't know most of the players. One person I didn't want for us to draft was Noah but it happened. I've never seen the guy play but it was more of his attitude and his stupid look which is a stupid reason if the guy has talent. The way I see it is I'd rather have Noah on this team instead of Sweetney.

[SouthSideRyan]

Aaron Gray, seriously???

 

I would've explored every possible trade option, as I didn't see much difference in those mid round guys. If I was stuck with #9 I woulda went with Julian Wrigth or Hawes. Hawes's strengths down low (posting, scoring)are the things that Thomas is still raw at and Wallace is still incompetent at. I wasn't nearly as adamant about Wright or Hawes as I was with Aldridge last year, but I just don't see Noah improving this team much either now or 3 years down the road. Wright is as redundant as Noah but at least he has some breakout potential which Noah does not. I don't think Noah provides anything that re-signing PJ Brown couldn't have done, and that's at what he thinks he maxes out at. It's all my opinion from what I've seen, but I just don't think there's a lot there.

[Keener98]

Aaron Gray, seriously???

 

I would've explored every possible trade option, as I didn't see much difference in those mid round guys. If I was stuck with #9 I woulda went with Julian Wrigth or Hawes. Hawes's strengths down low (posting, scoring)are the things that Thomas is still raw at and Wallace is still incompetent at. I wasn't nearly as adamant about Wright or Hawes as I was with Aldridge last year, but I just don't see Noah improving this team much either now or 3 years down the road. Wright is as redundant as Noah but at least he has some breakout potential which Noah does not. I don't think Noah provides anything that re-signing PJ Brown couldn't have done, and that's at what he thinks he maxes out at. It's all my opinion from what I've seen, but I just don't think there's a lot there.

 

Agreed with everything

[snoodmonger]

That suit is awesome, props to Noah.

 

I don't get the JamesOn love. He's an undersized SG, who can't defend and has long lapses where he forgets what he's doing.

 

OU FAN ALERT.

 

Not to take a joke seriously or anything, but I really do root for OSU basketball, as long as they aren't playing OU.

 

My cousin had life-threatening cancer when I was in high school, and notorious douchebag Doug Gottlieb somehow got wind of it and really helped take care of him, it meant a lot to the family.

 

I started to pull for them then, and I still do, for the most part.

 

JamesOn is a shooter that thrives as long as everyone is focused on guarding everyone else. He's not a ballhandler, defender or passer.

 

Yeah, I was mostly just joking. I think he's an adequate ball-handler and passer, and he can obviously fill it up on a given night. I don't expect much from him, and I doubt many others do here either. But for that late in the draft, he's got a good amount of talent, and he has the potential to become a useful NBA player, especially if he can be convinced to play a bit of D. I think that's where the enthusiasm comes from.

 

btw, cool gottlieb story. And not surprising, either. He strikes me as a smart-ass, but probably a pretty good guy, too.

 

Similar to Ben Gordon wouldn't you say? He's a much raw-er version. I think he can develop into a good 3rd guard in the rotation. Gordon's handles have come a long way since college. I have faith that Curry's will too. Gordon could not play a lick of D before this past year. He was the 49th pick. If he develops, he's potentially a huge help. If he doesn't, you don't lose much.

 

Yeah, a poor man's version of Gordon. The big difference is I believe Gordon had a reputation as a very hard worker. Not sure what JamesOn's rep is.

 

As for the Noah pick, he probably fits the Bulls's need better than anyone else. I think Julian has a higher ceiling, but Julian also has greater bust potential. Also, the Bulls don't need another small forward, and Wright would either play there or be very undersized (strength-wise) at PF.

[1908]

His statistical analysis in this regard is pure and utter crap. Refer to my earlier post -- or just the article itself -- to see the absurd rankings from past years. The rankings may have promise, but right now it's as raw as Yi.

Your initial reply got buried under all the live comments as the draft unfolded so I didn't see it. I agree the rankings are raw. I think the results are accurate enough to hold some value, though. And I look forward to him improving the tool. I encourage other posters to read the article to help them decide whether or not his statistical analysis and methodology is "crap".

[Ding Dong Johnson]

it was nice to finally see a Hawkeye drafted in this millenium

[BRASKYS SCOTCH]

it was nice to finally see a Hawkeye drafted in this millenium

 

Was Recker a secound rd pick? I know Evans was a FA signing.

[RynoRules]

Ha. Good one.

 

Pax blew this draft, IMO. The 9th pick going to a playoff team is a gift. Noah isn't good enough to make the difference down low we desperately need. He should have explored options on the trade mkt. This team is ready to win now, not develop another raw and athletic fwd/center.

 

I give Pax credit for taking a risk and signing Wallace, but I think the organization's (read: Pax and Skiles) philosophy of drafting conservative and playing the same way is beginning to show its limitations. You can win 50 games and maybe go to the Eastern Conference Finals under this philosophy (think of the Heat before they had the stones to trade for O'Neal). But that's about it, IMHO.

 

For whatever reason, Pax appears to be afraid to make the big move.

Not making a trade isn't blowing this draft. The Bulls will need to include either Nocioni or Brown (very unlikely) in a sign and trade to make any significant deal, and that can't happen until July 1. Seems a little early to me to declare the offseason over.

 

Who did you want the Bulls to select at 9 from those still on the board?

 

How about drafting another athletic wing or guard? Wright. Law. The two Youngs. Thorton. Stuckey. Create a surplus and you can afford to trade someone (the pick or Gordon) as part of a package to get a big man (Randolph was available; is Gasol still available? How about KG?). Beats drafting a role player at nine when your team desperately needs a star.

[1908]

How about drafting another athletic wing or guard? Wright. Law. The two Youngs. Thorton. Stuckey. Create a surplus and you can afford to trade someone (the pick or Gordon) as part of a package to get a big man (Randolph was available; is Gasol still available? How about KG?). Beats drafting a role player at nine when your team desperately needs a star.

Noah has as much -- or more -- trade value as any of the players you listed. Athletic 7-footers are always at a premium, and he's easily the best fit if the Bulls end up keeping him as I expect they will.

 

Portland gave Randolph away for a reason. I'm very happy he's not a Bull.

[RynoRules]

How about drafting another athletic wing or guard? Wright. Law. The two Youngs. Thorton. Stuckey. Create a surplus and you can afford to trade someone (the pick or Gordon) as part of a package to get a big man (Randolph was available; is Gasol still available? How about KG?). Beats drafting a role player at nine when your team desperately needs a star.

Noah has as much -- or more -- trade value as any of the players you listed. Athletic 7-footers are always at a premium, and he's easily the best fit if the Bulls end up keeping him as I expect they will.

 

Portland gave Randolph away for a reason. I'm very happy he's not a Bull.

 

Say what you will about his persona; I wouldn't mind seeing his 23 and 10 in the lineup at PF alongside Wallace and Deng. Supposedly Pax and Skiles are these great disciplinarians and pros - make it work.

 

I also disagree that Noah is the best fit at this point. When Wallace breaks down / retires, yes, he's a great backfill. At this point, however, we need someone 6'9" or over who can play with his back to the basket and get his own shot. Wouldn't hurt if the person could rebound too.

[1908]

Say what you will about his persona; I wouldn't mind seeing his 23 and 10 in the lineup at PF alongside Wallace and Deng. Supposedly Pax and Skiles are these great disciplinarians and pros - make it work.

I'd love 23 and 10. I'd hate his ball-hogging and tantrums. Dismiss character all you'd like. Do you still think Paxson made a mistake when he dumped J.R. Smith?

 

I also disagree that Noah is the best fit at this point. When Wallace breaks down / retires, yes, he's a great backfill. At this point, however, we need someone 6'9" or over who can play with his back to the basket and get his own shot. Wouldn't hurt if the person could rebound too.

I said Noah was the best fit when compared against the draft alternatives you listed. There was no one left on the draft board that fits your over-6-9-back-to-the-basket requirements except Hawes, and I'm glad Paxson avoided that nonathletic, piss-poor rebounder.

[RynoRules]

Say what you will about his persona; I wouldn't mind seeing his 23 and 10 in the lineup at PF alongside Wallace and Deng. Supposedly Pax and Skiles are these great disciplinarians and pros - make it work.

I'd love 23 and 10. I'd hate his ball-hogging and tantrums. Dismiss character all you'd like. Do you still think Paxson made a mistake when he dumped J.R. Smith?

 

I also disagree that Noah is the best fit at this point. When Wallace breaks down / retires, yes, he's a great backfill. At this point, however, we need someone 6'9" or over who can play with his back to the basket and get his own shot. Wouldn't hurt if the person could rebound too.

I said Noah was the best fit when compared against the draft alternatives you listed. There was no one left on the draft board that fits your over-6-9-back-to-the-basket requirements except Hawes, and I'm glad Paxson avoided that nonathletic, piss-poor rebounder.

 

No, I don't think he made a mistake at the time in trading Smith. We had enough wings at that point and had recently inked an inside presence in Wallace. In order to get Wallace we had to spin off Chandler, and in order to do so we had to take on Smith. At that point dealing him to Denver made sense.

 

With respect to your second point, you and I are talking about two different things: you are limiting yourself to draft alternatives who you assume Pax will keep. I am asserting that we should have traded the pick, drafted a player someone else wanted in order to facilitate a trade, or added greater depth to a position of strength (2's and 3's) in order to facilitate a trade.

[1908]

No, I don't think he made a mistake at the time in trading Smith. We had enough wings at that point and had recently inked an inside presence in Wallace. In order to get Wallace we had to spin off Chandler, and in order to do so we had to take on Smith. At that point dealing him to Denver made sense.

Gotcha. My bad. It must have been someone else who wanted to replace Gordon with a less productive larger guard like Smith or Richardson.

 

With respect to your second point, you and I are talking about two different things: you are limiting yourself to draft alternatives who you assume Pax will keep. I am asserting that we should have traded the pick, drafted a player someone else wanted in order to facilitate a trade, or added greater depth to a position of strength (2's and 3's) in order to facilitate a trade.

As I already mentioned, the Bulls will need to include either Nocioni or Brown in a sign and trade to make any significant deal. That can't happen sooner than July 1, and it could take some time to just work out a contract with either player, much less get them to agree to a sign and trade. So Paxson couldn't trade the pick before the draft to acquire a player like Randolf without including a player already under a significant contract like Wallace or Hinrich in the deal. No thanks.

 

The same dilemma made it very difficult for Paxson to work out a deal on draft day. It makes very little sense to draft a player for another team in the hopes of trading him weeks down the road. There are just too many variables at work with sign and trades.

 

Noah is a valuable trading chip. We might still see something happen. But if it doesn't, the Bulls aren't stuck with yet another wing that they had hoped another team would want to exchange for a low post player.

 

We're talking about the same thing. I just don't see how you can criticize Paxson for not making a trade yet, or for drafting a player that's a good fit if one of those typically unlikely blockbuster deals doesn't work out.

[RynoRules]

Points well taken. I guess in part I am frustrated b/c I feel like they have acquired several valuable assets and are on the cusp of osmething big, but still missing that final piece.

[Magnetic Curses]

noah seems to me like a big, less-skilled version of nocioni. a good guy to have a round but nothing more than a good role player.

 

i like his energy and he's bound to have an effect on an opposing team--so at least we have that.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

it was nice to finally see a Hawkeye drafted in this millenium

 

Was Recker a secound rd pick? I know Evans was a FA signing.

 

nope, last Hawkeye drafted was JR Koch (:pukel:) in 99

[1908]

Points well taken. I guess in part I am frustrated b/c I feel like they have acquired several valuable assets and are on the cusp of something big, but still missing that final piece.

Understandable. That final piece often takes a little luck to get. Even if they don't land that star this off-season, I think Deng/Thomas has a chance to develop into it.