ESPN Cubs Rumblings...

[Sarcastic]

Just freakin DFA the guy if no one wants him. Then you might force a contender to start talking for fear that one of the worse teams will claim him first. If not, then we open a roster sport for someone who can actually help this team.

 

I think it's still a bit premature for that. There's nobody who is going to replace him now who is going to be significantly better, whether that ends up being Pagan (I know, he's up right now, but Ward will probably replace him when he comes back), Cedeno, or Fontenot. Jones isn't necessarily completely washed up yet-trade him for absolutely anything you can get, but just releasing him doesn't really help the Cubs right now without a great option to replace him on the roster. Right now, he can be a pinch hitter and backup CF.

 

A month ago I may have agreed. But time's a wasting, and this roster needs fixing. They need backup IF help ASAP. An OF of Soriano, Pie, Floyd/Murton, with Ward and Pagan on the bench is as good or better than one that has Jones in the mix. At the very least you cut down substantially on veteran whining, by getting Jones out of here and Floyd more playing time.

 

And Jones has shown no signs of hitting his way out of this funk. Last year's slow start didn't last in May, let alone June. Jacque and the Cubs are like poison to each other at this point. There is no value in having him on the team, and it's quite possibly there is actually negative value.

 

Indeed, removing Jones = addition by subtraction

 

It only improves the team if we replace him with a better player. There is no such thing as addition by subtraction, unless you get to dump the player's salary too.

 

Jones has been terrible this year, and probably isn't about to turn it around, but there still isn't any point in replacing him with someone as bad or worse than he is.

 

I don't buy any of the clubhouse chemistry "Chicago is bad for Jacques" or "get rid of the whiner" arguments. If the first were true, he wouldn't have had one of his best seasons last year, and the second is the sort of intangibles argument that wouldn't hold any water around here, if the team wasn't playing so badly.

[Soul]

Just freakin DFA the guy if no one wants him. Then you might force a contender to start talking for fear that one of the worse teams will claim him first. If not, then we open a roster sport for someone who can actually help this team.

 

I think it's still a bit premature for that. There's nobody who is going to replace him now who is going to be significantly better, whether that ends up being Pagan (I know, he's up right now, but Ward will probably replace him when he comes back), Cedeno, or Fontenot. Jones isn't necessarily completely washed up yet-trade him for absolutely anything you can get, but just releasing him doesn't really help the Cubs right now without a great option to replace him on the roster. Right now, he can be a pinch hitter and backup CF.

 

A month ago I may have agreed. But time's a wasting, and this roster needs fixing. They need backup IF help ASAP. An OF of Soriano, Pie, Floyd/Murton, with Ward and Pagan on the bench is as good or better than one that has Jones in the mix. At the very least you cut down substantially on veteran whining, by getting Jones out of here and Floyd more playing time.

 

And Jones has shown no signs of hitting his way out of this funk. Last year's slow start didn't last in May, let alone June. Jacque and the Cubs are like poison to each other at this point. There is no value in having him on the team, and it's quite possibly there is actually negative value.

 

Indeed, removing Jones = addition by subtraction

 

It only improves the team if we replace him with a better player. There is no such thing as addition by subtraction, unless you get to dump the player's salary too.

 

Jones has been terrible this year, and probably isn't about to turn it around, but there still isn't any point in replacing him with someone as bad or worse than he is.

 

I don't buy any of the clubhouse chemistry "Chicago is bad for Jacques" or "get rid of the whiner" arguments. If the first were true, he wouldn't have had one of his best seasons last year, and the second is the sort of intangibles argument that wouldn't hold any water around here, if the team wasn't playing so badly.

 

Replacing him with more ABs for the better players we already have on the team isn't good enough?

[jersey cubs fan]

It only improves the team if we replace him with a better player. There is no such thing as addition by subtraction, unless you get to dump the player's salary too.

 

Less AB by Jones means more for Murton and Floyd, who are both better than him.

[Sarcastic]

It only improves the team if we replace him with a better player. There is no such thing as addition by subtraction, unless you get to dump the player's salary too.

 

Less AB by Jones means more for Murton and Floyd, who are both better than him.

 

True, but that makes the best solution benching him. I admit that it won't happen under Pinellia and Hendry, but neither will DFAing him, so I assumed we were speaking in hypotheticals.

[jersey cubs fan]

It only improves the team if we replace him with a better player. There is no such thing as addition by subtraction, unless you get to dump the player's salary too.

 

Less AB by Jones means more for Murton and Floyd, who are both better than him.

 

True, but that makes the best solution benching him. I admit that it won't happen under Pinellia and Hendry, but neither will DFAing him, so I assumed we were speaking in hypotheticals.

 

Not necessarily. He's redundent while the team is lacking infield help. If you dump him for Fontenot, he might give you less production, but he can play positions Jacque can't play, and that's a need. Jones is not outperforming any other OF on the team. His numbers could very easily stay as bad as they are, and if they are, or even close, he's clearly the worst OF on the roster and the obvious candidate for getting rid of him.

 

But the fact that he makes the money he makes only encourages Lou to use him more, so talking about DFA vs bench isn't realistic.

[Sarcastic]

It only improves the team if we replace him with a better player. There is no such thing as addition by subtraction, unless you get to dump the player's salary too.

 

Less AB by Jones means more for Murton and Floyd, who are both better than him.

 

True, but that makes the best solution benching him. I admit that it won't happen under Pinellia and Hendry, but neither will DFAing him, so I assumed we were speaking in hypotheticals.

 

Not necessarily. He's redundent while the team is lacking infield help. If you dump him for Fontenot, he might give you less production, but he can play positions Jacque can't play, and that's a need. Jones is not outperforming any other OF on the team. His numbers could very easily stay as bad as they are, and if they are, or even close, he's clearly the worst OF on the roster and the obvious candidate for getting rid of him.

 

But the fact that he makes the money he makes only encourages Lou to use him more, so talking about DFA vs bench isn't realistic.

 

Do we really need to drop Jones to get another IFer? Ramirez is only down until Monday, so we'd be dropping him just to get an extra infielder for a few days. I don't think that is a compelling reason.

[YearofDaCubs]

It only improves the team if we replace him with a better player. There is no such thing as addition by subtraction, unless you get to dump the player's salary too.

 

Less AB by Jones means more for Murton and Floyd, who are both better than him.

 

True, but that makes the best solution benching him. I admit that it won't happen under Pinellia and Hendry, but neither will DFAing him, so I assumed we were speaking in hypotheticals.

 

Not necessarily. He's redundent while the team is lacking infield help. If you dump him for Fontenot, he might give you less production, but he can play positions Jacque can't play, and that's a need. Jones is not outperforming any other OF on the team. His numbers could very easily stay as bad as they are, and if they are, or even close, he's clearly the worst OF on the roster and the obvious candidate for getting rid of him.

 

But the fact that he makes the money he makes only encourages Lou to use him more, so talking about DFA vs bench isn't realistic.

 

Do we really need to drop Jones to get another IFer? Ramirez is only down until Monday, so we'd be dropping him just to get an extra infielder for a few days. I don't think that is a compelling reason.

The OF is too crowded right now and all of our RF options pretty much suck defensively. I would rather have Floyd or Murton in the lineup over Jones right now. With Floyd here, one of them is redundant. We can't keep both of them. I can understand playing Murton against lefties but what about against RHP? Split time between Jones (who sucks really bad right now) and Floyd? Somebody has to go. Pagan is here to play CF if something happens to Pie so we have too many OFers.

[jersey cubs fan]

Do we really need to drop Jones to get another IFer? Ramirez is only down until Monday, so we'd be dropping him just to get an extra infielder for a few days. I don't think that is a compelling reason.

 

The compelling reason is that he sucks. But yes, the current crop of 6 OF and 1 backup MI is a bad mix. Even with Ramirez they are short on infielders.

[Sarcastic]

It only improves the team if we replace him with a better player. There is no such thing as addition by subtraction, unless you get to dump the player's salary too.

 

Less AB by Jones means more for Murton and Floyd, who are both better than him.

 

True, but that makes the best solution benching him. I admit that it won't happen under Pinellia and Hendry, but neither will DFAing him, so I assumed we were speaking in hypotheticals.

 

Not necessarily. He's redundent while the team is lacking infield help. If you dump him for Fontenot, he might give you less production, but he can play positions Jacque can't play, and that's a need. Jones is not outperforming any other OF on the team. His numbers could very easily stay as bad as they are, and if they are, or even close, he's clearly the worst OF on the roster and the obvious candidate for getting rid of him.

 

But the fact that he makes the money he makes only encourages Lou to use him more, so talking about DFA vs bench isn't realistic.

 

Do we really need to drop Jones to get another IFer? Ramirez is only down until Monday, so we'd be dropping him just to get an extra infielder for a few days. I don't think that is a compelling reason.

The OF is too crowded right now and all of our RF options pretty much suck defensively. I would rather have Floyd or Murton in the lineup over Jones right now. With Floyd here, one of them is redundant. We can't keep both of them. I can understand playing Murton against lefties but what about against RHP? Split time between Jones (who sucks really bad right now) and Floyd? Somebody has to go. Pagan is here to play CF if something happens to Pie so we have too many OFers.

 

You'd rather blow Jones' salary and keep Pagan than just bench Jones and send Pagan to the minors? I don't get it. Pagan is no improvement over Jones. He may be on a hot streak now, but when he cools down, he'll be awful.

[Sarcastic]

Do we really need to drop Jones to get another IFer? Ramirez is only down until Monday, so we'd be dropping him just to get an extra infielder for a few days. I don't think that is a compelling reason.

 

The compelling reason is that he sucks. But yes, the current crop of 6 OF and 1 backup MI is a bad mix. Even with Ramirez they are short on infielders.

 

So why not send down Pagan? He's hot now, but that won't last, and sending him to the minors won't commit the team to paying Jones' salary right away.

[CubColtPacer]

The question is simply this-who do you want, Jones on the Cubs and Pagan in Triple A, or Pagan on the Cubs and Jones released? Here are the pros for both:

 

Pagan

pros

better defense at all 3 positions

better start to the season

 

Jones

bigger chance at good production

better backup plan for the organization (if Jones is released, and then an outfielder goes down, who is the OF that comes up to replace them? If Pagan goes down, then he can come up when one of the OF's is hurt).

 

It's a close call, but I'd rather have Jones in the majors and Pagan at Triple A. If Jones can get traded and next year's salary goes away, then certainly do that. As far as a release though, I'd rather see Fontenot up, Pagan down.

[Sarcastic]

The question is simply this-who do you want, Jones on the Cubs and Pagan in Triple A, or Pagan on the Cubs and Jones released? Here are the pros for both:

 

Pagan

pros

better defense at all 3 positions

better start to the season

 

Jones

bigger chance at good production

better backup plan for the organization (if Jones is released, and then an outfielder goes down, who is the OF that comes up to replace them? If Pagan goes down, then he can come up when one of the OF's is hurt).

 

It's a close call, but I'd rather have Jones in the majors and Pagan at Triple A. If Jones can get traded and next year's salary goes away, then certainly do that. As far as a release though, I'd rather see Fontenot up, Pagan down.

Exactly.

[jersey cubs fan]

Pretending the Jones/Floyd/Murton pileup isn't a bad thing doesn't make it so.

 

Pagan is the backup CF, the only legit one of the team. Jones on the roster means less ABs for Floyd and Murton. Jones off the team means more AB for Floyd and Murton.

 

The salary is blown one way or the other. Keeping him doesn't make the payments any easier.

 

The question is pay him to suck or pay him not to play, while at the same time taking a chance somebody else would pick him up and cleaning up your screwed up roster.

[Sarcastic]

Pretending the Jones/Floyd/Murton pileup isn't a bad thing doesn't make it so.

 

Pagan is the backup CF, the only legit one of the team. Jones on the roster means less ABs for Floyd and Murton. Jones off the team means more AB for Floyd and Murton.

 

The salary is blown one way or the other. Keeping him doesn't make the payments any easier.

 

The question is pay him to suck or pay him not to play, while at the same time taking a chance somebody else would pick him up and cleaning up your screwed up roster.

 

Realistically, Jones is going to play. He will not be benched, and he will not be released. The argument we are having is purely hypothetical. Therefore, you can't say that Jones automatically means a lot fewer ABs for others. Hypothetically, it would be best if Jones were benched and Pagan sent to AAA. That way Murton could get his ABs, and we would still have a chance to trade Jones. Problems solved.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Something will need to happen with Jones by the time Ward gets healthy. When Ward is ready to return from the DL, the Cubs will have a decision to make.

 

One possibility would be to return Pie to AAA. From everything we've heard, this is not going to happen.

 

The second possibility is to go back to an 11-man pitching staff. Ward could return and we send down a pitcher.

 

A third possibility is to send Murton or Pagan back.

 

The fourth is to move Jones.

 

I think the fourth option is most desirable.

[NCCubFan]

One possibility would be to return Pie to AAA.

I don't even acknowledge that as a possibility. Pie is up to stay unless he goes into a long and horrible slump.

[jersey cubs fan]

Pretending the Jones/Floyd/Murton pileup isn't a bad thing doesn't make it so.

 

Pagan is the backup CF, the only legit one of the team. Jones on the roster means less ABs for Floyd and Murton. Jones off the team means more AB for Floyd and Murton.

 

The salary is blown one way or the other. Keeping him doesn't make the payments any easier.

 

The question is pay him to suck or pay him not to play, while at the same time taking a chance somebody else would pick him up and cleaning up your screwed up roster.

 

Realistically, Jones is going to play. He will not be benched, and he will not be released. The argument we are having is purely hypothetical. Therefore, you can't say that Jones automatically means a lot fewer ABs for others. Hypothetically, it would be best if Jones were benched and Pagan sent to AAA. That way Murton could get his ABs, and we would still have a chance to trade Jones. Problems solved.

 

Realistically the only way to solve the problem is the trade him ASAP or DFA.

 

Jones sucks, he was a predictably bad signing and the Cubs will be better off without him.

[Sarcastic]

Something will need to happen with Jones by the time Ward gets healthy. When Ward is ready to return from the DL, the Cubs will have a decision to make.

 

One possibility would be to return Pie to AAA. From everything we've heard, this is not going to happen.

 

The second possibility is to go back to an 11-man pitching staff. Ward could return and we send down a pitcher.

 

A third possibility is to send Murton or Pagan back.

 

The fourth is to move Jones.

 

I think the fourth option is most desirable.

 

I'll agree that trading Jones, even for peanuts, would be the best solution. The only problem is that it seems as though it would be difficult to find a taker for him at this point.

[Sarcastic]

Pretending the Jones/Floyd/Murton pileup isn't a bad thing doesn't make it so.

 

Pagan is the backup CF, the only legit one of the team. Jones on the roster means less ABs for Floyd and Murton. Jones off the team means more AB for Floyd and Murton.

 

The salary is blown one way or the other. Keeping him doesn't make the payments any easier.

 

The question is pay him to suck or pay him not to play, while at the same time taking a chance somebody else would pick him up and cleaning up your screwed up roster.

 

Realistically, Jones is going to play. He will not be benched, and he will not be released. The argument we are having is purely hypothetical. Therefore, you can't say that Jones automatically means a lot fewer ABs for others. Hypothetically, it would be best if Jones were benched and Pagan sent to AAA. That way Murton could get his ABs, and we would still have a chance to trade Jones. Problems solved.

 

Realistically the only way to solve the problem is the trade him ASAP or DFA.

 

Jones sucks, he was a predictably bad signing and the Cubs will be better off without him.

 

DFA is as realistic as benching him, that is to say, not very. I'm all for getting rid of Jones, I just don't think we accomplish anything by DFAing him and replacing him with a similar or worse player. The Cubs aren't better off without him if they still have to pay his salary and he isn't blocking a better player. Right now, he is blocking Murton, but he doesn't have to be (remember, this is a hypothetical). Again, why not send Pagan down?

[Mizzou]

One good thing in all of this is that the Cubs are at least acknowledging that Jones needs to go. They just need to figure out a way to make it happen, and sooner rather than later.

[AAApittsburgh]

Felix is 7 feet tall and blows lightning bolts out of his arse.

Now if only he could draw a walk.

[Keener98]

Felix is 7 feet tall and blows lightning bolts out of his arse.

Now if only he could draw a walk.

 

Umm he walked tonight

[NCCubFan]

Again, why not send Pagan down?

I anticipate Pagan being sent down when Floyd returns from the bereavement list.

[XZero771679666304]

Again, why not send Pagan down?

I anticipate Pagan being sent down when Floyd returns from the bereavement list.

 

Really? If Aramis is back in the lineup before Floyd comes off the bereavement list, I think Fontenot goes back down when he does. I know this makes little sense, but it's what I see happening.

[jjgman21]

can't stand Jones, particularly right now. however, I question the need to DFA him. I think the best think to do would be to hang on to him and hope that Perry can get him to make adjustments.

 

like with most things, offense is cyclical, and I know these stats are following a particularly good run by the Cubs, and bad by the Mets and Braves, but with tonights 9-1 victory over the Braves and the Mets scoring 3 runs, the Cubs are now tied for third with the Mets (moving past the Braves) for most runs/game in the NL.

 

of course the first counter argument is usually that the Cubs offense is inconsistent. I ran through this a couple weeks ago, and again I went through it quickly, but

 

0/1/2/3/4 run games

 

Cubs 2/8/5/7/9

Mets 1/7/8/9/4

Fish 3/5/7/7/6

Phils 1/4/7/6/10

 

or 0-2 run games/3-4 run games

 

Cubs 15/16

Mets 16/13

Fish 15/13

Phils 12/16

 

sustain the starting pitching and offense, get the pen straightened out, and the Cubs will be just fine, even with Jacque. give him a chance to raise his value a little bit, bite the bullet on his contract later if he doesn't turn it around and substantiate his contract in the eyes of another team.